Politics of Management Job Cuts

[RoyalFlush]

The jockeying for management positions has already begun. Anyone care to predict how this will shake out?

Here's my prediction. Hopefully I'm wrong.

1) Most management people offered the deal won't take it. I say 25% max.
2) The managers (all levels) with good political connections will displace those less well connected.
3) The managers with good connections will take over for the people that knew what they were actually doing.
4) The people that actually knew what they were doing will be let go or forced out.
5) The politically connected replacement managers will run the operations further into disarray.
6) Five years from now, those who should have left will leave and recovery attempts will begin.
7) FedEx will continue to thrive as they pick up a lot of quality UPS management.
8) UPS will continue to struggle as management jobs become less and less attractive.

 

[705red]

GREAT! Another thread over the 1800 jobs being downsized! I think this topic needs its own forum.

 

[Catatonic]

GREAT! Another thread over the 1800 jobs being downsized! I think this topic needs its own forum.

Maybe as a temporary measure.
I don't think management, technicians and administrative employees have asked for that like the Air people did.
BC members can always ignore these threads just like I try to do on the Labor Discussion threads. And for the same reason - Labor Discussions does not involve me and I don't know much about the issues.

 

[705red]

It would be easier to follow along if we kept it all in one topic, as is we have at least 5 topics going right now. It becomes pretty redundant to follow along when the same thins are being discussed in every topic.

I am disappointed that 1800 UPSers will be losing their jobs. I do not like seeing anyone lose their job, management or union hourly. I fear that all the old school management might leave leaving us with alot of people that do not have the skills nor the experience of doing our jobs.

This is bad news for all UPS employees. Especially when our CEO who did not come up through the ranks of UPS has received some very nice raises to his compensation package since taking over.

 

[soberups]

The jockeying for management positions has already begun. Anyone care to predict how this will shake out?

Here's my prediction. Hopefully I'm wrong.

1) Most management people offered the deal won't take it. I say 25% max.
2) The managers (all levels) with good political connections will displace those less well connected.
3) The managers with good connections will take over for the people that knew what they were actually doing.
4) The people that actually knew what they were doing will be let go or forced out.
5) The politically connected replacement managers will run the operations further into disarray.
6) Five years from now, those who should have left will leave and recovery attempts will begin.
7) FedEx will continue to thrive as they pick up a lot of quality UPS management.
8) UPS will continue to struggle as management jobs become less and less attractive.

Correct on all counts, but you left a few out:

9) We are about to watch an insane game of "musical chairs"

10) For the next few months we will see unprecedented levels of harassment and micromanagement as those managers fight desperately to survive by making "their" numbers look better than their rivals.

11) It will become very cutthroat; the first rule of corporate survival is that if you cannot make yourself look any better on paper you must make an internal rival look worse.

12) Those managers who arent quite old or long-term enough to qualify for a buy-out will just get whacked on trumped-up charges of "dishonesty" so that they can be let go with less pension or benefit liability. If you are a 49-year old center manager or on-car sup with mediocre production numbers or any sort of health issues, you are going to wake up one morning with a knife in your back.

13)Management; they shoot their wounded and eat their young.

 

[Cezanne]

Correct on all counts, but you left a few out:

9) We are about to watch an insane game of "musical chairs"

10) For the next few months we will see unprecedented levels of harassment and micromanagement as those managers fight desperately to survive by making "their" numbers look better than their rivals.

11) It will become very cutthroat; the first rule of corporate survival is that if you cannot make yourself look any better on paper you must make an internal rival look worse.

12) Those managers who arent quite old or long-term enough to qualify for a buy-out will just get whacked on trumped-up charges of "dishonesty" so that they can be let go with less pension or benefit liability. If you are a 49-year old center manager or on-car sup with mediocre production numbers or any sort of health issues, you are going to wake up one morning with a knife in your back.

13)Management; they shoot their wounded and eat their young.

And I thought I was the only one abused....

 

[Notcool]

Correct on all counts, but you left a few out:

10) For the next few months we will see unprecedented levels of harassment and micromanagement as those managers fight desperately to survive by making "their" numbers look better than their rivals.
.

Already happening at our center. I work on reload and we are coming in at 5:45 and getting it volume that we have crammed down our throats. The problem is all the loaders are rebelling and going slower.

 

[tieguy]

Correct on all counts, but you left a few out:

9) We are about to watch an insane game of "musical chairs"

10) For the next few months we will see unprecedented levels of harassment and micromanagement as those managers fight desperately to survive by making "their" numbers look better than their rivals.

11) It will become very cutthroat; the first rule of corporate survival is that if you cannot make yourself look any better on paper you must make an internal rival look worse.

12) Those managers who arent quite old or long-term enough to qualify for a buy-out will just get whacked on trumped-up charges of "dishonesty" so that they can be let go with less pension or benefit liability. If you are a 49-year old center manager or on-car sup with mediocre production numbers or any sort of health issues, you are going to wake up one morning with a knife in your back.

13)Management; they shoot their wounded and eat their young.

I like to barbecue my young first . Have this nice sauce I whip up that really tenderizes the meat.

with that said this conversation has now gone into the asinine.

I personally believe that all drivers in oregon and washington are perverts but I'm nice enough to not post this opinion all over this site.

for some reason posters here think its ok to make those kind of comments and yet those same people making those same comments think they are somehow better then the management posters here.

 

[soberups]

for some reason posters here think its ok to make those kind of comments and yet those same people making those same comments think they are somehow better then the management posters here.

I'm assuming you are referring to me, so I will respond.

I dont think I'm "better" than anyone.

I merely expressed an opinion, based upon observations I have made over the last 23 years I have spent with this company. In that time I have worked under 4 District managers, 8 Division managers, 8 center managers and dozens of on car supervisors. I have seen them succeed, and I have seen them fail. I have reaped the benefits of their wisdom, and been the victim of their incompetence.

I feel bad for some of the management people who are going to be shown the door. A lot of them are decent hard-working folks whose only crime was failing to make numbers that were never realistic to begin with. I have personally seen 2 guys like that get fired for reasons that were complete BS; both were only a year or two away from retirement with medical benefit eligibility.

Im sorry if you find my comments offensive, but they werent directed at you personally. If you dont agree with me, perhaps it is because your experiences as an employee of UPS have been different from mine.

 

[SWORDFISH]

The jockeying for management positions has already begun. Anyone care to predict how this will shake out?

Here's my prediction. Hopefully I'm wrong.

1) Most management people offered the deal won't take it. I say 25% max.
2) The managers (all levels) with good political connections will displace those less well connected.
3) The managers with good connections will take over for the people that knew what they were actually doing.
4) The people that actually knew what they were doing will be let go or forced out.
5) The politically connected replacement managers will run the operations further into disarray.
6) Five years from now, those who should have left will leave and recovery attempts will begin.
7) FedEx will continue to thrive as they pick up a lot of quality UPS management.
8) UPS will continue to struggle as management jobs become less and less attractive.

This should be a lesson to all those ever thinking about ever going into management.

 

[TheDick]

Did everybody get there letter so they go into the selection process?
I didnt , but others did.

 

[hellfire]

I'm assuming you are referring to me, so I will respond.

I dont think I'm "better" than anyone.

I merely expressed an opinion, based upon observations I have made over the last 23 years I have spent with this company. In that time I have worked under 4 District managers, 8 Division managers, 8 center managers and dozens of on car supervisors. I have seen them succeed, and I have seen them fail. I have reaped the benefits of their wisdom, and been the victim of their incompetence.

I feel bad for some of the management people who are going to be shown the door. A lot of them are decent hard-working folks whose only crime was failing to make numbers that were never realistic to begin with. I have personally seen 2 guys like that get fired for reasons that were complete BS; both were only a year or two away from retirement with medical benefit eligibility.

Im sorry if you find my comments offensive, but they werent directed at you personally. If you dont agree with me, perhaps it is because your experiences as an employee of UPS have been different from mine.

if it matters Sober,, there are few posters here that i still look forward to reading and respect the opinions of,, and you one of the very few left

 

[bigbrownhen]

Sorry Tie, but on this one Sober is probably right. Its not a pretty picture, but the most likely scenerio. In both hourly and management, there are good and bad employees, but in management politics and numbers rule, reguardless of which type you may be. I hope for those managers who have invested so much of their time and retained their sense of morals, will still be employed and reach the retirement they have been working for.

Either way this goes, UPS will lose some quality employees.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Correct on all counts, but you left a few out:

9) We are about to watch an insane game of "musical chairs"

10) For the next few months we will see unprecedented levels of harassment and micromanagement as those managers fight desperately to survive by making "their" numbers look better than their rivals.

11) It will become very cutthroat; the first rule of corporate survival is that if you cannot make yourself look any better on paper you must make an internal rival look worse.

12) Those managers who arent quite old or long-term enough to qualify for a buy-out will just get whacked on trumped-up charges of "dishonesty" so that they can be let go with less pension or benefit liability. If you are a 49-year old center manager or on-car sup with mediocre production numbers or any sort of health issues, you are going to wake up one morning with a knife in your back.

13)Management; they shoot their wounded and eat their young.

Sober,
With all due respect - you have a lot of wisdom - sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't; probably because your perspective is more from a non-management insight. The one part of this you are not privy to is the management insight. Yet you tend to provide your insight as if you have performed the job or been on the inside. Any information you get from management is colored from their point of view.

Remember there are three sides to a story. I did a lot of district and region investigations. There is a different version of the truth where ever you look and then there is the absolute truth which may be VERY difficult to get to.

Here is my take on your points:
(Again - just another perspective) JMO

9) Finding the right fit for an operation should not take more than two moves in 6 months. Anything more than that is poor management placement.

10) This won't be any different than it is right now! Period - The basic framework or cornerstone placement has already been formulated. The good guy is not going to change and the bad guy is still bad! Simple as that!

11) Again - see number 10 - This is already going on with the bad guys. Leopards don't change their spots!

12) This is insane. I have been involved in high level management "dart throwing". These managers and supervisors have career development portfolios that show what their skills are, what their experience level is, .. etc.
You might be surprised at how well the decision makers know their managers and supervisors.... from the district manager on down to the division manager.

Again the next level of management knows what these people bring to the table.

Remember - you are hearing and seeing one side of the story...
and don't forget the 5% talked about earlier. 5% of ALL employees should not be working at UPS (or anywhere else!). This is not going to change.

13) Complete fabrication. All management are given opportunities and provided coaching and counseling. If they don't have the skill level or ability to learn they move from being an asset to becoming a liability. Mid/upper level management places these folks in positions of less responsibility or in positions where they will be moderately successful with the skill set they possess. ... and then there is that 5% LOL!

 

[tieguy]

I'm assuming you are referring to me, so I will respond.

I dont think I'm "better" than anyone.

I merely expressed an opinion, based upon observations

and I merely expressed my opinion based on my observations that drivers from your part of the country are all sick twisted perverts. I hope you weren't offended.

 

[tieguy]

Sorrt y Tie, but on this one Sober is probably right. Its not a pretty picture, but the most likely scenerio. In both hourly and management, there are good and bad employees,.

did you say both good and bad? See I thought Sober said all mangement were corrupt. Silly me. throw yourself on that grenade if you want to admit to being corrupt but leave me out of the genralizations.

 

[soberups]

did you say both good and bad? See I thought Sober said all mangement were corrupt. Silly me. throw yourself on that grenade if you want to admit to being corrupt but leave me out of the genralizations.

I did not say that. Please reread my entire post.

>>I feel bad for some of the management people who are going to be shown the door. A lot of them are decent hard-working folks whose only crime was failing to make numbers that were never realistic to begin with. I have personally seen 2 guys like that get fired for reasons that were complete BS; both were only a year or two away from retirement with medical benefit eligibility.<<<

 

[soberups]

and I merely expressed my opinion based on my observations that drivers from your part of the country are all sick twisted perverts. I hope you weren't offended.

Im not offended. I am disappointed.

You seem like a pretty smart guy and I'm surprised you would say something like that, considering that you arent even from my part of the country in the first place.

I am curious...what specific incidents have led you to the conclusion that drivers from my geographic region are sick twisted perverts?

 

[tieguy]

I did not say that. Please reread my entire post.

>>I feel bad for some of the management people who are going to be shown the door. A lot of them are decent hard-working folks whose only crime was failing to make numbers that were never realistic to begin with. I have personally seen 2 guys like that get fired for reasons that were complete BS; both were only a year or two away from retirement with medical benefit eligibility.<<<

you did make the comment that management eat their young. I don't personally eat my young and I'm proud of my record of mentoring young upsers in all jobs in my time at ups. I also know of many fine ups management folks that do not eat their young.

 

[Brown betty]

We were all told no people moves until this is over, we were also told that bumping would not be allowed. If you do not choose to take the offer and your position goes away you would then go into a pool of people fighting for the holes created by people that took the offer.