Excellent posts and research. The Teamsters and backers don't like this kind of negative publicity, but they can't deny the truth. I'm sure they still have their hands in what is left of our pension fund.
Retiring with APWA
- Thread starter krash
- Start date
705red
Browncafe Steward
E79 iwasnt even alive when most of that happened or in diapers. What exactly was your point here?
Some people you could do a map and they still couldn`t figure out the direction ? Now you point out the path of the teamsters with their hand in our cookie jar and they wonder who`s taking the cash ? aye aye aye
1
krash
Go big orange
Cole,
That's what the changes where aimed at doing. Shoring the plan up. Getting us back on solid footing.
Ive enjoyed are discussion thus far. Unlike others who just repeat what APWA has posted on there web site, you actually "think" before posting.
Now as far as the Ron Carey literature, I wouldn't bet the farm on anything he has said. He (in my eye's) wasn't very credible. The organization he was connected to has had a history of twisting the facts. They have always went after anyone that wasn't a member of there's. But I'll ask around to see if there is any "solid" info on this.
I'll also try and start researching the other stuff too. But I will say that if someone in APWA is claiming that they cant display certain results yet because of fear of mafia reprisal sounds awfully fishy. If mafia reprisal was evident it would've taken place already. Why wold they wait till after they organize. It would appear to me it's just an excuse not to show proof of there (or lack of) membership numbers.
That's what the changes where aimed at doing. Shoring the plan up. Getting us back on solid footing.
Ive enjoyed are discussion thus far. Unlike others who just repeat what APWA has posted on there web site, you actually "think" before posting.
Now as far as the Ron Carey literature, I wouldn't bet the farm on anything he has said. He (in my eye's) wasn't very credible. The organization he was connected to has had a history of twisting the facts. They have always went after anyone that wasn't a member of there's. But I'll ask around to see if there is any "solid" info on this.
I'll also try and start researching the other stuff too. But I will say that if someone in APWA is claiming that they cant display certain results yet because of fear of mafia reprisal sounds awfully fishy. If mafia reprisal was evident it would've taken place already. Why wold they wait till after they organize. It would appear to me it's just an excuse not to show proof of there (or lack of) membership numbers.
Cole
Well-Known Member
Because the Teamsters obviousley don't consider it a serious threat yet, and like UPS will wait until a problem bites them square on the arse before they acknowledge it.
Also, Ron Carey was not in TDU, they suppored his reform platform, and I did too. Just type in the name Allen Dorfman and you'll get plenty of info. Although I am not currently a member of TDU, I was at one time, and personally I think they do a far better job of getting info in members hands than the Teamsters in general. Also they fought for and won the rights to vote on may issues within the Union. If they put something out on someone by and large they give the source. Granted they aren't perfect, but they have kept the heat on the corruption imho. Please show me what facts TDU twisted. You are referring to TDU right?
You're entitled to your opinion of Carey, but as far as I am concerned, he stood up when no other Teamster leaders were, also imho since he was cleared of those charges they (UPS) Gov., and entrenched crooks of the Teamsters didn't want him there, so they got him out long enough to get their boy Hoff Jr in, and things have gone thier way since.
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krash
Go big orange
Nooooooooooooo!!!! UTI didn't grasp the chicken, now I see. That's funny!
What's Big Orange? Syracuse?
Tennessee
Cole
Well-Known Member
Krash you a knoxville native ? I likes the smokey mountains !I figured it was the vols. Fulmer etc...
BCFan
Well-Known Member
you mean to say Chicago is not a country town ?
BCI been to Cades Cove. Your family has some history !
Cole
Well-Known Member
Brother Krash said,
No no it wasn't Ron Carey that said that, I don't know the guys name that I first heard it from but it was on a video tape from the Teamster convention that year, and the guy was reading about all the crooked crap Allen Dorman was involved in, but as per usual he was booed down, by imho hired goons, who boo everything that isn't brought up by their group.
A brother/buddy of mine was there this year in support of Leedham, and they booed them every chance they got, spit on them, sometimes in their faces, to me I don't wont anything to do with these types, and if that's what the entrenched one's of the Teamsters bring to the plate, then they bring little. Remember when Hoff jr's people even booed the Eagle/Boy Scouts at the convention a few yrs. ago? Real crowning moment eh? Even Arlen Spector who has been a friend to the Union was booed while he tried to speak, and said, "you're only making yourselves look bad, and it makes it hard to take you seriousley" or something similar.
Maybe they could use a lesson in class. I can't remember who it was but one of Hoffa jr's top people then said, "well we're Teamsters, not choir boys". Not very goood pr imho.
I am not aiming that at you Krash, or 705as you really seem like a fine people to me, but as far as what was said about Allen Dorfman and his connections to Hoffa Sr. and Junior, it has proved to be fact, and in fact I do remember Jr. saying, they were business partners, but he didn't know what he (Dorfman) was involved with. From what I have gathered, AD was arrested and being interviewed by a foreign journalist and was shot and killed. Obviousley he knew too much.
Ok that's past, not much can be done, in that I am in agreement, but what is the Teamster solution to fix CS, that they played a huge role in getting it to this point? Or would they spit in our face for challenging them?
Ok that's not fair to you folks here, but what are some real viable options?
No no it wasn't Ron Carey that said that, I don't know the guys name that I first heard it from but it was on a video tape from the Teamster convention that year, and the guy was reading about all the crooked crap Allen Dorman was involved in, but as per usual he was booed down, by imho hired goons, who boo everything that isn't brought up by their group.
A brother/buddy of mine was there this year in support of Leedham, and they booed them every chance they got, spit on them, sometimes in their faces, to me I don't wont anything to do with these types, and if that's what the entrenched one's of the Teamsters bring to the plate, then they bring little. Remember when Hoff jr's people even booed the Eagle/Boy Scouts at the convention a few yrs. ago? Real crowning moment eh? Even Arlen Spector who has been a friend to the Union was booed while he tried to speak, and said, "you're only making yourselves look bad, and it makes it hard to take you seriousley" or something similar.
Maybe they could use a lesson in class. I can't remember who it was but one of Hoffa jr's top people then said, "well we're Teamsters, not choir boys". Not very goood pr imho.
I am not aiming that at you Krash, or 705as you really seem like a fine people to me, but as far as what was said about Allen Dorfman and his connections to Hoffa Sr. and Junior, it has proved to be fact, and in fact I do remember Jr. saying, they were business partners, but he didn't know what he (Dorfman) was involved with. From what I have gathered, AD was arrested and being interviewed by a foreign journalist and was shot and killed. Obviousley he knew too much.
Ok that's past, not much can be done, in that I am in agreement, but what is the Teamster solution to fix CS, that they played a huge role in getting it to this point? Or would they spit in our face for challenging them?
Ok that's not fair to you folks here, but what are some real viable options?
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
In reply to a list of questions that Krash posted recently.... The following is my understanding after attending meetings and listening to discussions with the APWA.
Well, what about our brothers and sisters already retired?
Their benefits are vested and will be unaffected unless congress makes changes to ERISA allowing reduction in benefits retroactively. UPS is required to continue funding the CS pension and maintain its solvency until pensions promised to its employees have been fulfilled.
What about those nearing retirement?
Refer to Question 1 in this previous post.
What can we expect with 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? 25 years?
These benefits are clearly defined on the APWA website. And for employees who have reached benefit milestones with IBT, the APWA benefits would be in addition to the IBT pension check.
Can we retire at any age?
Please see the APWA website
--are the Central States benefits guaranteed? Are the machinist pensions guaranteed? With prudent management these benefits can be achieved. And with mismanagement you get CS. APWA has financial transparency written into its charter so that members are aware of how their money is being managed and can make changes using the open election process when needed.
What about insurance?
Please review the APWA Health Insurance Goals
What about dissability?
No changes will be made to dissability pay except in the event of a career ending health event. The APWA pension will have a calamity fund which is maintained by taking 1% from each person’s contributions. Should you become unable to work, this calamity fund would guarantee you a pension.
Pay?
FT continue the same rate; APWA will seek to increased part-time pay to $15/hr
Raises?
Elevate pay raise standards nationally to meet the higher standards that people in select parts of the country enjoy due to the supplementals.
Vacation time?
Maintain/increase everyone to standards of highest plan/local agreement
Holidays?
continue same standard and add Martin Luther King
Sick time?
Increase everyone to same standards nationally.
Example: Edison NJ only has 2 sick days as opposed to 5 days in other parts of country. And Edison people have to schedule their sick days. They should enjoy the same sick pay benefits that people on the other side of the country enjoy.
Grievance procedure?
Shop steward informally approaches company, if no resolution then he/she files grievance which is barcoded. Individual members will also have the option to go online and file an e-grievance. Grievance filing time is stamped. The local BA has 30 days to resolve the grievance. If not resolved within 30 days, the grievance goes to the regional manager who is now responsible for resolving it. If 60 days after filing it is still not settled, the grievance goes to the national office and to the desk of one of the VP's.
Settled grievances will be published on the APWA website for others to review as precedence with the company nationwide; grievances will be searchable to aid others in defending the contract.
Cardinal sins?
Are we speaking about cardinal sins with the company or with the union? Please be more specific.
Seniority rights?
No changes.
Subcontractors?
Outside of the holiday rush (thanksgiving to Christmas) No tolerance. Period. The erosion in the contract that the IBT has allowed is costing people jobs across the country. Jacksonville, fl is using contractors year round and they even have their own building there!
New technology?
DIAD will not be substantial grounds for dismissal. More training is needed for mechanics to diagnose complicated computer systems on trucks;
APWA use of technology...
Bar coding for grievances as described above.
Members will be able to log on to the pension managers web site to view their contributions to date and expected benefits.
New equipment?
Continuation/enforcement of current contract requirements.
Big Brother?
See DIAD as discussed above. Otherwise list your specific concerns.
Strike benefits?
Will exceed the $55/week that the Teamsters had to borrow from the AFL-CIO in the last strike. The five year plan is to shut down operations for a significant amount of time by continuing to pay members a full 40hr pay week.
How long will it take to get a contract?
Estimated 3-6months.
Will yall try and organize FedEx?
NO….APWA will represent UPS only or no one. The charter restricts representation of any companies other than UPS.
How much money do I need to give to be regional manager?
Contributing the time and energy is much more valuable than contributing financially. A regional manager has to have 10years with UPS. Second he has to be nominated by employees. Third he has to win the election. Within 5 years, all regional manager positions will be up for direct election by their employers--- aka…the membership! And the oversight set up by the APWA charter will avoid and/or directly punish with swift and strong action such improprieties that the Teamsters continually struggle with in their leadership.
Can someone trump me?
Only in a good card game of Spades. However, if the membership does not approve of your performance as a card player or officer, they can vote you out and replace you.
How much money is UPS donating?
$0 This would be an NLRB violation. Please provide any substantial information you have that UPS is donating and I will fill out the NLRB charges for you.
Well, what about our brothers and sisters already retired?
Their benefits are vested and will be unaffected unless congress makes changes to ERISA allowing reduction in benefits retroactively. UPS is required to continue funding the CS pension and maintain its solvency until pensions promised to its employees have been fulfilled.
What about those nearing retirement?
Refer to Question 1 in this previous post.
What can we expect with 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? 25 years?
These benefits are clearly defined on the APWA website. And for employees who have reached benefit milestones with IBT, the APWA benefits would be in addition to the IBT pension check.
Can we retire at any age?
Please see the APWA website
Is our retirement guaranteed?parcelworkerscom said:
--are the Central States benefits guaranteed? Are the machinist pensions guaranteed? With prudent management these benefits can be achieved. And with mismanagement you get CS. APWA has financial transparency written into its charter so that members are aware of how their money is being managed and can make changes using the open election process when needed.
What about insurance?
Please review the APWA Health Insurance Goals
What about dissability?
No changes will be made to dissability pay except in the event of a career ending health event. The APWA pension will have a calamity fund which is maintained by taking 1% from each person’s contributions. Should you become unable to work, this calamity fund would guarantee you a pension.
Pay?
FT continue the same rate; APWA will seek to increased part-time pay to $15/hr
Raises?
Elevate pay raise standards nationally to meet the higher standards that people in select parts of the country enjoy due to the supplementals.
Vacation time?
Maintain/increase everyone to standards of highest plan/local agreement
Holidays?
continue same standard and add Martin Luther King
Sick time?
Increase everyone to same standards nationally.
Example: Edison NJ only has 2 sick days as opposed to 5 days in other parts of country. And Edison people have to schedule their sick days. They should enjoy the same sick pay benefits that people on the other side of the country enjoy.
Grievance procedure?
Shop steward informally approaches company, if no resolution then he/she files grievance which is barcoded. Individual members will also have the option to go online and file an e-grievance. Grievance filing time is stamped. The local BA has 30 days to resolve the grievance. If not resolved within 30 days, the grievance goes to the regional manager who is now responsible for resolving it. If 60 days after filing it is still not settled, the grievance goes to the national office and to the desk of one of the VP's.
Settled grievances will be published on the APWA website for others to review as precedence with the company nationwide; grievances will be searchable to aid others in defending the contract.
Cardinal sins?
Are we speaking about cardinal sins with the company or with the union? Please be more specific.
Seniority rights?
No changes.
Subcontractors?
Outside of the holiday rush (thanksgiving to Christmas) No tolerance. Period. The erosion in the contract that the IBT has allowed is costing people jobs across the country. Jacksonville, fl is using contractors year round and they even have their own building there!
New technology?
DIAD will not be substantial grounds for dismissal. More training is needed for mechanics to diagnose complicated computer systems on trucks;
APWA use of technology...
Bar coding for grievances as described above.
Members will be able to log on to the pension managers web site to view their contributions to date and expected benefits.
New equipment?
Continuation/enforcement of current contract requirements.
Big Brother?
See DIAD as discussed above. Otherwise list your specific concerns.
Strike benefits?
Will exceed the $55/week that the Teamsters had to borrow from the AFL-CIO in the last strike. The five year plan is to shut down operations for a significant amount of time by continuing to pay members a full 40hr pay week.
How long will it take to get a contract?
Estimated 3-6months.
Will yall try and organize FedEx?
NO….APWA will represent UPS only or no one. The charter restricts representation of any companies other than UPS.
How much money do I need to give to be regional manager?
Contributing the time and energy is much more valuable than contributing financially. A regional manager has to have 10years with UPS. Second he has to be nominated by employees. Third he has to win the election. Within 5 years, all regional manager positions will be up for direct election by their employers--- aka…the membership! And the oversight set up by the APWA charter will avoid and/or directly punish with swift and strong action such improprieties that the Teamsters continually struggle with in their leadership.
Can someone trump me?
Only in a good card game of Spades. However, if the membership does not approve of your performance as a card player or officer, they can vote you out and replace you.
How much money is UPS donating?
$0 This would be an NLRB violation. Please provide any substantial information you have that UPS is donating and I will fill out the NLRB charges for you.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Brother cole please dont ask the hard questions like that. You must be assuming that its in writing in some sort of bylaws form? Knowing nospin it was just off of the top of his head, and theres no way he can remember that, that post was from yesterday, come on. Your asking way too much.
krash
Go big orange
I had to trim the post down to meet site requirements so I cut out the one's that I said OK to.In reply to a list of questions that Krash posted recently.... The following is my understanding after attending meetings and listening to discussions with the APWA.
What can we expect with 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? 25 years?
These benefits are clearly defined on the APWA website. And for employees who have reached benefit milestones with IBT, the APWA benefits would be in addition to the IBT pension check.
~So it will be set up like those with PT and FT years??
Can we retire at any age?
Please see the APWA website
~These figures are projections from the total amount UPS contributes to our health and welfare correct. So APWA will seek to have UPS continue to contribute that amount then turnaround and cover our health separately? Will UPS also be responsible for the insurance after retiring? How was such a figure calculated and what was the "low" end that they projected. As you pointed out about others, nothing is guaranteed. So we could very well end up with very little, correct.
Is our retirement guaranteed?
--are the Central States benefits guaranteed? Are the machinist pensions guaranteed? With prudent management these benefits can be achieved. And with mismanagement you get CS. APWA has financial transparency written into its charter so that members are aware of how their money is being managed and can make changes using the open election process when needed.
~Uh, you didn't answer. I didn't ask about CS, the machinist or what the special of the day was at the Chinese restaurant. The answer is NO. Now how will voting for new managers every time it deeps change things? Who will pay for the elections? Who will be eligible to vote? If it dips below the required amount to cover the payouts, then what? We vote again or adjust the payouts? Change the age requirement, etc. Correct?
What about insurance?
Please review the APWA Health Insurance Goals
~The idea was to let UPS take that over? So the described "projections" for health care will be outlined in the contract so UPS cannot change until the contract expires? Or does APWA have a provider lined up and how much more will it take to cover the benefits since the current amount will go solely to the retirement?
What about dissability?
No changes will be made to dissability pay except in the event of a career ending health event. The APWA pension will have a calamity fund which is maintained by taking 1% from each person’s contributions. Should you become unable to work, this calamity fund would guarantee you a pension.
~Gurantee?
Pay?
FT continue the same rate; APWA will seek to increased part-time pay to $15/hr
~I really feel that the PTers are not getting there fare shake when it comes to wages and wish we would stand togeather to change this. But shouldn't they expect the same rate of pay for doing the same work as a FTer? If this was to happen I believe UPS would convert all PT job's to FT where possible instead of providing benefits for 2 when it could be 1. But anything is better than what they start off at now.
Raises?
Elevate pay raise standards nationally to meet the higher standards that people in select parts of the country enjoy due to the supplementals.
~Where do they receive a different raise schedule? The Chicago hub?
Vacation time?
Maintain/increase everyone to standards of highest plan/local agreement
~Please elaborate
Sick time?
Increase everyone to same standards nationally.
Example: Edison NJ only has 2 sick days as opposed to 5 days in other parts of country. And Edison people have to schedule their sick days. They should enjoy the same sick pay benefits that people on the other side of the country enjoy.
~Correct. But ours is 7 days to do as we will, correct? You are referring to the Option week, right? It would be nice to see that moved up to 10 days.
Grievance procedure?
Shop steward informally approaches company, if no resolution then he/she files grievance which is barcoded. Individual members will also have the option to go online and file an e-grievance. Grievance filing time is stamped. The local BA has 30 days to resolve the grievance. If not resolved within 30 days, the grievance goes to the regional manager who is now responsible for resolving it. If 60 days after filing it is still not settled, the grievance goes to the national office and to the desk of one of the VP's.
~Our local is working on something rather similar(barcodes). So there is'nt much difference in the process. You still have levels for them to pass through. What happens when the VP cannot resolve?
Cardinal sins?
Are we speaking about cardinal sins with the company or with the union? Please be more specific.
~The contract
Seniority rights?
No changes.
~Each supplement is different. Which one do you plan on going by? I assume since you want everything else unified, then what "seniority" policy will we use?
Subcontractors?
Outside of the holiday rush (thanksgiving to Christmas) No tolerance. Period. The erosion in the contract that the IBT has allowed is costing people jobs across the country. Jacksonville, fl is using contractors year round and they even have their own building there!
~Where, I didn't see them there. Do you mean there own office? Also, I what about drop shippers and the Rail? Do yall seek to eliminate that and is that what you where referring to taken place at JAKFL?
New technology?
DIAD will not be substantial grounds for dismissal.
~OK
More training is needed for mechanics to diagnose complicated computer systems on trucks;
~What?
Big Brother?
See DIAD as discussed above. Otherwise list your specific concerns.
~There attempts watch every move we make with the "black box" they are installing in pkg cars
Strike benefits?
Will exceed the $55/week that the Teamsters had to borrow from the AFL-CIO in the last strike. The five year plan is to shut down operations for a significant amount of time by continuing to pay members a full 40hr pay week.
~Please elaborate. Shut down what operations and where will the funds come from. Thats a hefty amount to cover for every employee at UPS. They have what, 200K+ employees?
Will yall try and organize FedEx?
NO….APWA will represent UPS only or no one. The charter restricts representation of any companies other than UPS.
~Wouldn't that benefit us in the long run? Why stop at UPS. If yall could deliver on what you've posted, they would beg us for representation.
How much money do I need to give to be regional manager?
Contributing the time and energy is much more valuable than contributing financially. A regional manager has to have 10years with UPS. Second he has to be nominated by employees. Third he has to win the election. Within 5 years, all regional manager positions will be up for direct election by their employers--- aka…the membership! And the oversight set up by the APWA charter will avoid and/or directly punish with swift and strong action such improprieties that the Teamsters continually struggle with in their leadership.
~How will it be swift? Who will oversee and investigate? What will APWA be from the " continual struggles"? Will these "managers" and other "officials" receive and income? What are these "charter" members entitled to?
Can someone trump me?
Only in a good card game of Spades. However, if the membership does not approve of your performance as a card player or officer, they can vote you out and replace you.
~Please elaborate. How much of the membership would it take to get a vote? How many officers will they be? How many BA's? etc.
How much money is UPS donating?
$0 This would be an NLRB violation. Please provide any substantial information you have that UPS is donating and I will fill out the NLRB charges for you.
