RLA PETITION

DontThrowPackages

Well-Known Member
Why don't you quit and get a better job?
But they are quitting. The two fastest couriers in the station left almost a year ago. Young guys too. It was a hard hit to management because they were both swings. The kind of swings who were willing to do things on their lunch. The kind that a made the regular courier upset to come back from vacation to find one of these guys ran the route at 150pct. Yeah, they're leaving and getting better jobs. The 20 and 30 things are leaving, maybe half our station is back up to 50 Hrs a week again. Nobody to cover the early cut rtes because the 24 year old PTer is tired of coming in for 2.5 hours and then getting a call from a manager to see if he/she can come back in 5 hours to work another 1.5 hrs. DRA extra Routes created? Don't care, absorb it! We have nobody. Anyone with any ambition is out the door less than a year from courier school. The ones left, the managers don't trust on the RTEs because either they're slow and lazy or just plan suck. Had one day when "DRA Isn't working today". Was it because we would've had nobody to cover the extra rtes they knew it would have created that day? So don't worry, there's plenty a quitting. However, 50 and 60 year olds not going anywhere. So get use to their complaints about your company, your relative probably pulled string to get you into the position you are now, because they're not quitting.
 

CharleyHustle

Well-Known Member
Preface: Long ago before the Union became outdated and antiquated. They laid the basic foundation for what the American worker should look and be like. After that, it's been a cluster :censored2:.

Who says they are outdated and antiquated? Corporations have been using their might to legislate them out of existence, and made the road much more uphill, but unions still remain the only real advocate for labor out there. As far as a cluster, unless you provide more info this whole statement is just your opinion.

Unions lead to higher prices for consumers since companies must pay more for wages & benefits, which are then passed on to customers.

Spoken like a true “zero sum” believer. Unions “negotiate” fair wages and benefits. Whether you like it or not the pie is expanding, if you want your boss to get all the extra, just say so. Inflation is a product of monetary policy.

Unions make the country less competitive since non-unionized companies in India, China, Taiwan, etc. can pay workers far less and therefore charge less and/or assign more workers per unit of product. With Europe being the lone exception. Major manufacturers will leave to go abroad because of this and tax breaks.

Why are so many low wage workers from around the globe trying to get into the US?

Unions often prevent more qualified workers from getting the jobs. Less proficient workers are often protected from layoffs or firing; thus, new positions open less frequently.

You do understand that this right here is one of the major reasons unions got started in the first place? Favoritism, cronyism, bigotry, existed long before unionism and is much more prevalent in non-union industries. “Less proficient” workers are a product of bad management, every union contract has specific language to deal with these issues.

Society and companies are often held hostage to the essential services of certain unions (e.g. teachers, police, construction workers, air traffic controllers, etc.); thus, negotiation becomes less about fairness to workers than about companies meeting the demands of union extortion.

You provide the answer in your complaint, “air traffic controllers”.

Unions have become a source of political power and corruption. Since unions can offer a large block of voters, politicians will often curry favor from unions and screw over the taxpayers. Consequently, union representatives concentrate on helping their favorite politicians and political party rather than doing what's best for the members. All while pocketing membership fees.

Union political power has always been suspect, never being able to out spend large corporations. Non-union employees have even less clout. Do you believe that politicians would stop currying favor or screwing over taxpayers if unions didn’t exist?

It prevents the firing of clearly incompetent workers. Several poorly-performing teachers on tenure as well as most government workers are clear examples. Over bloated pensions, and promote entitlement and laziness.

Not firing incompetent workers or poorly performing teachers or government workers and promoting entitlement and laziness is “clearly” a function of BAD management.

Unions lead to less productivity and job motivation since pay levels are usually determined by seniority rather than performance. The lack of incentives such as increased pay or promotion, as well as the lesser threat of losing their jobs, leads to workers putting out less effort than they otherwise would. With the attitude of "no need to bust my butt, I'll get to that pay scale anyways.

Union jobs, even teacher jobs, are by their nature “dead end” positions. Management sets the parameters and workers achieve them. There is no reward for going above and beyond, union or not.

It creates an "us" vs. "them" hostility between ownership and workers. An innate distrust between white and blue collar.

So you are saying this doesn’t exist in non-union shops, like FedEx for example?

Unions focus on the needs of the members at the expense of non-union members & society, as evidenced by labor unrest all over the world as governments try to rein in unsustainable spending.

Huh?

For many types of jobs, union membership is required for the position, along with substantial cash dues on a regular basis. This is inherently anti-freedom.

Do you have the freedom not to apply? Adulterers are not allowed holy communion in the Catholic church, is this anti-freedom?

It decreases the flexibility of both employee and employer in negotiating wages, benefits, and other items. Especially with the technological advances of today and multi-working families, employees often want to customize work hours & location, fringe benefits (e.g. more vacation time, no health insurance), and pay (e.g. per hour or per project vs. salaried). Unions tie the hands of both employee and employer in such situations. They inhibit INNOVATION.

Have you ever been in a union shop? I see this every day in mine, the key word is negotiate, not just accepting what ever the boss decrees.

Unions have in the past had ties with organized crime or communist organizations, which are fundamentally trying to harm the nation's free market system. Google Union Thug, and tell me how proud you are. Protect the middle class

Your right, corporations have never tried to harm the nation’s free market system.


Unions reduce the investment dollars that are put into a company since investors are less willing to take on the risks of work stoppages, higher costs, and decreased management flexibility. Like it or not, that is what it's all about in the 21st century friends.

People with money invest in well run companies.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
  1. Preface: Long ago before the Union became outdated and antiquated. They laid the basic foundation for what the American worker should look and be like. After that, it's been a cluster :censored2:.
  2. Unions lead to higher prices for consumers since companies must pay more for wages & benefits, which are then passed on to customers.
  3. Unions make the country less competitive since non-unionized companies in India, China, Taiwan, etc. can pay workers far less and therefore charge less and/or assign more workers per unit of product. With Europe being the lone exception. Major manufacturers will leave to go abroad because of this and tax breaks.
  4. Unions often prevent more qualified workers from getting the jobs. Less proficient workers are often protected from layoffs or firing; thus, new positions open less frequently.
  5. Society and companies are often held hostage to the essential services of certain unions (e.g. teachers, police, construction workers, air traffic controllers, etc.); thus, negotiation becomes less about fairness to workers than about companies meeting the demands of union extortion.
  6. Unions have become a source of political power and corruption. Since unions can offer a large block of voters, politicians will often curry favor from unions and screw over the taxpayers. Consequently, union representatives concentrate on helping their favorite politicians and political party rather than doing what's best for the members. All while pocketing membership fees.
  7. It prevents the firing of clearly incompetent workers. Several poorly-performing teachers on tenure as well as most government workers are clear examples. Over bloated pensions, and promote entitlement and laziness.
  8. Unions lead to less productivity and job motivation since pay levels are usually determined by seniority rather than performance. The lack of incentives such as increased pay or promotion, as well as the lesser threat of losing their jobs, leads to workers putting out less effort than they otherwise would. With the attitude of "no need to bust my butt, I'll get to that pay scale anyways.
  9. It creates an "us" vs. "them" hostility between ownership and workers. An innate distrust between white and blue collar.
  10. Unions focus on the needs of the members at the expense of non-union members & society, as evidenced by labor unrest all over the world as governments try to rein in unsustainable spending.
  11. For many types of jobs, union membership is required for the position, along with substantial cash dues on a regular basis. This is inherently anti-freedom.
  12. It decreases the flexibility of both employee and employer in negotiating wages, benefits, and other items. Especially with the technological advances of today and multi-working families, employees often want to customize work hours & location, fringe benefits (e.g. more vacation time, no health insurance), and pay (e.g. per hour or per project vs. salaried). Unions tie the hands of both employee and employer in such situations. They inhibit INNOVATION.
  13. Unions have in the past had ties with organized crime or communist organizations, which are fundamentally trying to harm the nation's free market system. Google Union Thug, and tell me how proud you are. Protect the middle class!
  14. Unions reduce the investment dollars that are put into a company since investors are less willing to take on the risks of work stoppages, higher costs, and decreased management flexibility. Like it or not, that is what it's all about in the 21st century friends.
The problem with 90% of your arguments are you're talking about public unions.

Public and private unions do not operate under the same economic laws.
 

Serf

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I appreciate your thoughts. Finally, A member who can think.


Preface: Long ago before the Union became outdated and antiquated. They laid the basic foundation for what the American worker should look and be like. After that, it's been a cluster :censored2:.

Who says they are outdated and antiquated? Corporations have been using their might to legislate them out of existence, and made the road much more uphill, but unions still remain the only real advocate for labor out there. As far as a cluster, unless you provide more info this whole statement is just your opinion.

Unions lead to higher prices for consumers since companies must pay more for wages & benefits, which are then passed on to customers.

Spoken like a true “zero sum” believer. Unions “negotiate” fair wages and benefits. Whether you like it or not the pie is expanding, if you want your boss to get all the extra, just say so. Inflation is a product of monetary policy.

Unions make the country less competitive since non-unionized companies in India, China, Taiwan, etc. can pay workers far less and therefore charge less and/or assign more workers per unit of product. With Europe being the lone exception. Major manufacturers will leave to go abroad because of this and tax breaks.

Why are so many low wage workers from around the globe trying to get into the US?

Unions often prevent more qualified workers from getting the jobs. Less proficient workers are often protected from layoffs or firing; thus, new positions open less frequently.

You do understand that this right here is one of the major reasons unions got started in the first place? Favoritism, cronyism, bigotry, existed long before unionism and is much more prevalent in non-union industries. “Less proficient” workers are a product of bad management, every union contract has specific language to deal with these issues.

Society and companies are often held hostage to the essential services of certain unions (e.g. teachers, police, construction workers, air traffic controllers, etc.); thus, negotiation becomes less about fairness to workers than about companies meeting the demands of union extortion.

You provide the answer in your complaint, “air traffic controllers”.

Unions have become a source of political power and corruption. Since unions can offer a large block of voters, politicians will often curry favor from unions and screw over the taxpayers. Consequently, union representatives concentrate on helping their favorite politicians and political party rather than doing what's best for the members. All while pocketing membership fees.

Union political power has always been suspect, never being able to out spend large corporations. Non-union employees have even less clout. Do you believe that politicians would stop currying favor or screwing over taxpayers if unions didn’t exist?

It prevents the firing of clearly incompetent workers. Several poorly-performing teachers on tenure as well as most government workers are clear examples. Over bloated pensions, and promote entitlement and laziness.

Not firing incompetent workers or poorly performing teachers or government workers and promoting entitlement and laziness is “clearly” a function of BAD management.

Unions lead to less productivity and job motivation since pay levels are usually determined by seniority rather than performance. The lack of incentives such as increased pay or promotion, as well as the lesser threat of losing their jobs, leads to workers putting out less effort than they otherwise would. With the attitude of "no need to bust my butt, I'll get to that pay scale anyways.

Union jobs, even teacher jobs, are by their nature “dead end” positions. Management sets the parameters and workers achieve them. There is no reward for going above and beyond, union or not.

It creates an "us" vs. "them" hostility between ownership and workers. An innate distrust between white and blue collar.

So you are saying this doesn’t exist in non-union shops, like FedEx for example?

Unions focus on the needs of the members at the expense of non-union members & society, as evidenced by labor unrest all over the world as governments try to rein in unsustainable spending.

Huh?

For many types of jobs, union membership is required for the position, along with substantial cash dues on a regular basis. This is inherently anti-freedom.

Do you have the freedom not to apply? Adulterers are not allowed holy communion in the Catholic church, is this anti-freedom?

It decreases the flexibility of both employee and employer in negotiating wages, benefits, and other items. Especially with the technological advances of today and multi-working families, employees often want to customize work hours & location, fringe benefits (e.g. more vacation time, no health insurance), and pay (e.g. per hour or per project vs. salaried). Unions tie the hands of both employee and employer in such situations. They inhibit INNOVATION.

Have you ever been in a union shop? I see this every day in mine, the key word is negotiate, not just accepting what ever the boss decrees.

Unions have in the past had ties with organized crime or communist organizations, which are fundamentally trying to harm the nation's free market system. Google Union Thug, and tell me how proud you are. Protect the middle class

Your right, corporations have never tried to harm the nation’s free market system.


Unions reduce the investment dollars that are put into a company since investors are less willing to take on the risks of work stoppages, higher costs, and decreased management flexibility. Like it or not, that is what it's all about in the 21st century friends.

People with money invest in well run companies.

1) They are outdated and antiquated. Unions are like type writers. Outdated, weak, and self serving. From the mid-1930s to about the mid-'70s, U.S. unions prospered because of several favorable forces. During the Depression, workers were fired up by abysmal working conditions and poor pay. After World War II, they were agitated by a sense of postwar entitlement in the context of the great wealth they were creating. Workers were restless and militant, struggles were seen as universally beneficial, and they enjoyed broad public support. Cluster friend#cks in the sense of strikes and violence.
2)Yes, Inflation is a product of monetary policy. And this policy sucks because the Government in reckless. Unions negotiate fair wages? No, they negotiate the highest wages. And it's rampant. Nobody would sign up for the boss getting all the extra profit. But that is not reality. They are boss's for a reason. And you are a worker for a reason.
3) Low wage workers from around the Globe are trying to get into the US simply because our "ghetto is nicer then your ghetto." Our minimum wage in a monthly sum is still several times higher then what they would be making back home.
4)Favoritism, cronyism, bigotry, existed long before unionism and is much more prevalent in non-union industries. That is innate human nature. It exists in big business, the Military, school, prison, everywhere. Unionism is now like a "good guy mafia." Thanks for the 40 hour work week and the benefits and vacation.
5) Essential services. Ronald Reagan’s presidency. Reagan fired more than 11,000 air traffic controllers after they staged a strike against the federal government. Reagan’s reaction to the PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization) strike was widely portrayed as harsh — not only did Reagan fire the controllers, he banned the government from ever rehiring them. The “ban for life” was rescinded by the Clinton administration, but not until 12 years after the strike. But the public solidly supported Reagan’s action. Fully 59% of Americans approved of the way he was handling the issue, according to a Gallup poll conducted a few days after he fired the controllers.
6) Union jobs, even teacher jobs, are by their nature “dead end” positions.= Nonsense.
7) In pure speculation, the us vs them can exist in anything. Union or non union. But regardless of affiliation your reputation willl proceed you. Or the impression you make.
8) You don't have the freedom to not apply. If your company is union, your dues are part of the conditions of employment. As far as adulterers not being allowed in the Catholic Church, I see your point. But if you violated the establishments rules you lose freedom. Much like if you violate society's laws you lose freedom and go to prison.
9) Unions focus on the needs of the members at the expense of non-union members & society. PLAIN And SIMPLE. Teamsters salivate to get into FedEx. Not to negotiate higher wages for the "working man". But they see it as 300,000 new people to sign up and pay union dues. The company has to pay employees more, therefore has to charge more at the societies/ consumers expense.
10) You see negotiations in your shop everyday. But do you see innovation? Unions say negotiation, companies say compromise. The fact is that their probably is a more efficient way the majority of the time. But by the union be a type writer not an IPad, here comes the outdated, self serving thing again.
11) Corporations have tried to harm the nation’s free market system. And our sad Government has bailed them out.
12)People with money invest in well run companies. Yes the "pump and dump" and the Fed artificially inflating the stock are all common place. It's all manipulated anf has not been a accurate sign of what's really going on.
 

Serf

Well-Known Member
The problem with 90% of your arguments are you're talking about public unions.

Public and private unions do not operate under the same economic laws.

The thing is, if one were a hardcore, one might argue that private-sector unions are merely bargaining against everyone who buys the products they produce, in an effort to drive up prices. Unions are trying to set industry-wide uniform wages, not argue with the owners of a particular firm about how to divide that firm's profits based on this year's results. That would result in different wages for workers at different firms, which is one thing unions generally don't want. In a capitalist world where competition is always driving down prices and profits, and where firms have to compete on efficiency, you'd think the only way unions could make more money for workers is by raising prices for everyone.

In fact, the world isn't ideal, there's a whole lot of wiggle room for firms to increase profits by driving down wages, and, private-sector unions provide workers with a counterweight to management power in bargaining over compensation. And the evidence is very clear that, while they may also lead to reduced investment, unions provide a wage premium for their workers in the firms and industries where they operate. If you had a situation in which the private sector was largely unionised and the public sector wasn't, you'd expect to see private-sector workers making more than public-sector ones for similar jobs.

In fact, however, we don't have such a world. We have a world in which private-sector unions have shriveled while public-sector ones have grown. And I think it's pretty clear how this came about. Back in the 1940s and 1950s, the standard jobs that provided decent salaries and job security for the working and middle class were all pretty heavily unionised, whether private- or public-sector. Auto workers were unionised, police officers were unionised, newspaper reporters were unionised, postal workers were unionised. In my family, one branch was in the (private) ladies' garment workers' union, the other branch was in the (public) teachers' union. (Then there was my Great-aunt Marcia, who was in the Screen Cartoonists' Guild, which Walt Disney claimed was a Stalinist front group taking orders directly from Moscow. She used to draw a mean Popeye.) In that generation, people who worked in government jobs would have reacted angrily to the idea that they didn't have the right to organise and demand better wages the same way their private counterparts did.

Private-sector unionisation began to decline in the 1970s for a reason: private industry had an incentive to seek a non-unionised labour force and to break union control wherever possible, in order to increase profitability. So the auto and steel industries shifted factories to right-to-work states, leading to the tautological result trumpeted in papers like this one that unionised areas have lower rates of investment than non-unionised ones. The government doesn't have such a clear incentive to seek low-cost non-unionised labour. Moreover, a lot of governing tasks can't be outsourced to cheap non-union locales; you can't move an elementary school to Arkansas because the unionised teachers in New Jersey are too expensive. So government unionisation has risen from 23% in 1973 to 36% today, while private-sector unionisation has declined from 24% in 1973 to 7% today. In this environment, it's bizarre to argue that private-sector unions (which are withering) are legitimate, while public-sector ones aren't. It might be interesting to consider the merits of an economy with 50% private-sector unionisation and no public-sector unionisation at all, but that's not an economy we could conceivably get at this point.

Taken from www.economist.com
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
You make no sense. Do American cars cost significantly more than others? Is fed ex that much cheaper than ups?

There's a line that if crossed a private company will lose customers and not exist. The auto unions pushed too far and should of been allowed to go bankrupt. Public unions simply don't follow the same economic laws.
 

Serf

Well-Known Member
You make no sense. Do American cars cost significantly more than others? Is fed ex that much cheaper than ups?

There's a line that if crossed a private company will lose customers and not exist. The auto unions pushed too far and should of been allowed to go bankrupt. Public unions simply don't follow the same economic laws.

NO. You have to consider what would have happened without the bailout; how much it would have cost taxpayers if the government did nothing. A laid-off GM worker would have been eligible for unemployment checks, and the government would have lost tax revenue. People without jobs really don’t pay federal tax. There would have been economic sinkholes in every community from the dealerships that were no longer selling vehicles, fixing vehicles, loss of jobs, etc. But I am getting off track with all this.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
The official corporate line. Perhaps you could think of something original? Why don't you get off the knob and deliver some packages. Oh, that's right...you're under the desk looking at MT3's shoes. Sorry.

That's what I'd expect from someone who has been whining and moaning for YEARS now about how this is such a terrible place to work, yet this is the absolute best job and compensation package that you can get.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
But they are quitting.

I'm asking why he doesn't quit. Why hasn't he gone out and gotten a better job? Why is he still working for FedEx?

The kind that a made the regular courier upset to come back from vacation to find one of these guys ran the route at 150pct.

It's a good thing they left. MFE said that if anyone did that to him he would have a "discussion" with them after hours and off of company property.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I'm asking why he doesn't quit. Why hasn't he gone out and gotten a better job? Why is he still working for FedEx?



It's a good thing they left. MFE said that if anyone did that to him he would have a "discussion" with them after hours and off of company property.

I stay to bother you and your corporate bosses. I think it's great that the most talented employees (both management and hourly) are leaving in droves, which should be a major clue...but not at FedEx. You can personally attack me all day long if you'd like, but my messages of WAD, "leave if you can", and "there is no future at FedEx" are hitting home, and that's why you've reappeared.

The Express opco is in real trouble, and I couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. You can PSP and PR and Purple Promise all day long...and it will fall on deaf ears. You and your masters are still trotting-out the same old crap, except now there are almost no Kool-Aid drinkers to swallow it. Spin-away Dano, cuz' it ain't working.
 

Serf

Well-Known Member
Trades Unions work well as centers of resistance against the encroachments of capital. They fail partially from an injudicious use of their power. They fail generally from limiting themselves to a guerrilla war against the effects of the existing system, instead of simultaneously trying to change it. Since the last century this has been the case.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
Trades Unions work well as centers of resistance against the encroachments of capital. They fail partially from an injudicious use of their power. They fail generally from limiting themselves to a guerrilla war against the effects of the existing system, instead of simultaneously trying to change it. Since the last century this has been the case.
Pathetic.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
I stay to bother you and your corporate bosses. I think it's great that the most talented employees (both management and hourly) are leaving in droves, which should be a major clue....

So the best and brightest are leaving.

You're staying. That says a lot!
 
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