Safety Compliance.

NHDRVR

Well-Known Member
Cheers to any of you on the safety board. Your job is not an easy one since you are essentially fighting for the driver. I was on it for about 5-6 years and I had to stop because of the standard double-speak from the center manager but I do applaud those of you who have our best interests at heart.
 

LastBest&Final

To Endeavor To Persevere
STUG your story sounds like mine, but you don't need to be in the safety committee to make a difference. It's better if your not in the safety committee, then your not part of the broken system. I document unsafe conditions and report them to my center manager. He, of course, tries to pass the buck to the other safety committee co-chair, but I tell him I'm documenting that he is now aware of the unsafe conditions. That makes him, the safety committee and the company liable, if nothing gets done about it in a reasonible amount of time. Some things get changed and some things don't. Some times it happens quickly and some times it takes forever. It's up to management to make things safe, but if you don't document it, it's harder to prove negligence and they have no reason to change things. The fear of the law suit is why the company is concerned about safety. It has very little to do with how much they care about their employee's and more about their profitability. The more people you make aware of the unsafe condition and document it. The more likely it will be fixed before someone is injured.

I want the company to be very profitable, and don't want the company to be sued, but not by ignoring unsafe conditions that could hurt or kill someone.
 
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local804

Well-Known Member
At least you tried. Your intentions were honorable.

You arent the first, and you wont be the last to go into the Safety Commitee hoping to make a difference...only to discover that the whole thing is a scam.

Hammer hit the nail right on the head, and hard!!!!
 

chev

Nightcrawler
MGMT wants to nit pick the things you do when you run "overallowed", but when you are pleasing to the numbers, everything is okay. That being said, I believe that UPS touting safety is a farce. The safety committee is full of politics that I refuse to be a party to. If UPS wanted a real safety committee, they'd make it unattached to corporate mgmt/UPS. As with all of my posts, this has been my opinion.
:wink2: Somehow I knew it would come to this. A brave effort though.
 

gandydancer

Well-Known Member
It's been almost 3 months since I joined the safety committee, and I have yet to accomplish anything. I've drilled drivers on safe methods and DOK (Depth Of Knowledge), listened in on conference calls, but that's pretty much all I've done.

.... I am hereby resigning from the safety committee for the following reasons...

Sorry to hear it. Sounded like you were turning into just who I'd want to be the safety co-chair. In fact, I'd like you to reconsider.

UPS doesn't have the CHSP in order to pretend to be concerned about safety. It is required by law to have a functioning safety process with active employee involvement, and that's supported by the contract. As Union co-chair YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO WHAT MANAGEMENT WANTS. You're like a steward. They pay you for the hours but your functions are defined by the contract and your responsibiliities are to your co-workers. You don't have to spend your time drilling drivers on DOK. It's not one of the seven functions listed, above, by Bobblehead, in Section 20.4 of the contract. Get your concerns in the minutes and on the concerns list and if management gets in your way go to the grievance process and/or OSHA. I haven't read all of this thread -- did you ever follow up on the OSHA 300 and 300A?

The negative is that you're putting a target on your back, and if you don't think it's worth it I won't second-guess you. But you can choose to expect nothing but guff from management and still not sign on to be safety pet. You don't have to let management stop you from making a difference. Build a record and make it too hot for them to stop you.

Leastways, that's my plan. Still a work in progress, I admit.
 
P

pickup

Guest
It's odd, the difference between the 1st post on this thread and steven's latest ones. Steve, I didn't want to say anything negative about your becoming the safety co-chair months ago but I thought it was going to go badly but I thought if anyone could make it go positively, it would have been you . I just didn't know it would go this badly. I think Dannyboy warned you it was going to be a thankless job. I'm just curious and maybe you can't publicly answer, what method(s) or method are you now following that you didn't follow before that is really killing your time?
 

tieguy

Banned
It's been almost 3 months since I joined the safety committee, and I have yet to accomplish anything. I've drilled drivers on safe methods and DOK (Depth Of Knowledge), listened in on conference calls, but that's pretty much all I've done.

When did you join. Your first post on this thread seems to indicate it was about two months ago. Drilling drivers on safe work methods and DOK is important as far as training goes. Have you attended any safety meetings reviewed any accidents or injuries developed any plans to prevent based on trends , done any facility walk throughs. These are things that the safety committee does. What else did you expect to do?

I recently reported that my pkg car had been damaged, while being used by a cover driver. This "accident" was conveniently covered up, so that it wouldn't go on the accident frequency report. Our mechanic told me that he would have to write up the replacement of my pkg car mirror arm and part of my TP60, as accidents. I told him to go ahead, and reported this to my On-Road, who was seated in the "safety zone" having a conversation with the Division safety manager DSM. The on-road got all red in the face and blasted off to go speak with the mechanic.

You have a package car with damage on it and you expect us to charge someone with it with no witnesses?

After punching out, I went upstairs to speak with the DSM. I told her that I was contemplating quitting as safety co-chair, due to the fact that I was never trained and didn't really do anything, besides what I listed above. She blah blah blah-ed me, for like 25 minutes. She ended by saying, basically, that mgmt is in charge of safety. So as I understood it, mgmt has control over what slips out and gets reported, and what doesn't. During this conversation, my on-road, got red faced again, and started telling me, "Haven't you punched, don't you need to leave".

management does like to hear thierselves talk. With that said you should look to help improve the safety culture in your center regardless of how much management likes to hear thierselves talk.

That is the last straw for me. I am hereby resigning from the safety committee for the following reasons.

1: After having realized that I was speaking out of my butt, when telling people to be safe and do the methods, I was not doing, I turned around and did all of the methods, as required, which made me go significantly slower on my route than I had previously gone. My supervisor and manager were all over me about going over 9/5. I told them that I had too much work and had I done the route as it was supposed to be done, in the first place, the stops would be lower than what they assumed I was "capable" of. I received a warning letter for a ONE DAY OJS ride. How can this happen, when they have no comparative data?

what exactly were you doing that would save you two hours a day? Big loss from everything you have said. How do you do when the sup ojs's you? You will get a lot of sympathy here from others but it may be time to do some soul searching. two hours is a lot to drop. You could do jumping jacks in between each delivery and not lose two hours.

2: The person that delivers the mall has 2 handcarts, and is expected to push/pull both of them, simultaneously. How is this "safe"?

Guy probably pushs a baby stroller and shopping cart around on the weekends and does not think anything of it.

3: Drivers are working, even though they are injured.

drivers decision to do so? Some people are pretty tough and work through minor pain.

4: Drivers still talk on handheld cell phones while driving.

Turn em in

5: The myriad of other unsafe behavior that mgmt puts blinders to.

If you're managment group is going out and doing regular observations and holding people accountable for unsafe behavior then they are not turning complete blinders to safety. This is where you and the rest of the safety committe comes in. you see unsafe behavior you talk to the driver and fix it without management busting the guys but. Thats a service you could be providing your fellow man.

MGMT wants to nit pick the things you do when you run "overallowed", but when you are pleasing to the numbers, everything is okay. That being said, I believe that UPS touting safety is a farce. The safety committee is full of politics that I refuse to be a party to. If UPS wanted a real safety committee, they'd make it unattached to corporate mgmt/UPS. As with all of my posts, this has been my opinion.

it is what it is . And it is what you decide to make it. You decided to quit?
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
it is what it is . And it is what you decide to make it. You decided to quit?

The only thing worse than doing nothing about safety....is to do nothing while pretending to do something.

Sounds to me like Steve got tired of pretending.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Drilling drivers on safe work methods and DOK is important as far as training goes.

Its might be important the first 15 or 20 times you do it. The next 20 times, it becomes irritating. The 25 times after that it starts getting insulting, and from then on its pretty much fingernails on a blackboard. Perhaps Steve felt that mindlessly repeating the 10 pt. commentary over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again might not be the best way to help create a safe work enviornment.

I have every faith that the company will find someone else to grade the papers now that Steve has chosen to resign.
 

NHDRVR

Well-Known Member
I'll try to condense this as best I can. It seems that safety isn't a problem until it's a problem.By that I mean you run,speed,work off the clock,skip lunch, basically be unsafe performing your duties throughout the day.As long as you don't get hurt or have an accident everything is cool.

Ultimately I have to put most of the blame on the driver for which I may take some heat for.I can deal with that if some one wants to argue a point, I'm up to the challenge.

I believe there is a fine line between being a safe productive worker and an accident/
injury waiting to happen.More and more mgmt is pushing us all over that line and that might be coming from coperate I don't know.I'm on the down side of my career at ups
so I'll take it one day at a time and see what happens.

That about sums it up.

If you are producing then the chances/risks are overlooked. If you are an hour under everyday they (in my center anyways) might conveniently look the other way when you clip a bit of someones lawn with your tire. But if a driver does this who is 2 hours over each day, forget about it.

It's just another one of the games.
 

tieguy

Banned
The only thing worse than doing nothing about safety....is to do nothing while pretending to do something.

Sounds to me like Steve got tired of pretending.

I think steve had other issues.

You've made a very passionate plea for a vehicle modification. the biggest part of improving the overall safety culture is not getting vehicle modifications but changing peoples behavior.
changing thier behavior is a grind. It requires a lot of observing , educating and selling. There is very little about the job that is glamorous.
 

tieguy

Banned
Its might be important the first 15 or 20 times you do it. The next 20 times, it becomes irritating. The 25 times after that it starts getting insulting, and from then on its pretty much fingernails on a blackboard. Perhaps Steve felt that mindlessly repeating the 10 pt. commentary over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again might not be the best way to help create a safe work enviornment.

I have every faith that the company will find someone else to grade the papers now that Steve has chosen to resign.

I'm not sure why he would be repeating it that many times after all its not you he is training.:happy-very:
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I think steve had other issues.

You've made a very passionate plea for a vehicle modification. the biggest part of improving the overall safety culture is not getting vehicle modifications but changing peoples behavior.
changing thier behavior is a grind. It requires a lot of observing , educating and selling. There is very little about the job that is glamorous.

If you want to change peoples behavior you should first focus on changing their enviornment and changing the expectations you place upon them.

Brickloading a 25 yr old truck with no power steering or seat belt, sending it out onto a route with a time study that is 2 hrs behind reality, and then screaming at the driver for failing to live up to your impossible expectations does not constitute "safe by choice".

Simply requiring that same driver to sit in your "safe zone" and recite your commentaries before his start time does not solve the underlying problem of the unsafe enviornment that you have created.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I'm not sure why he would be repeating it that many times after all its not you he is training.:happy-very:

Because that is all that the Safety Committee is allowed to do. If you dont have anything relevant to say, your only option is to just repeat yourself in order to fill up the time.
 

tieguy

Banned
If you want to change peoples behavior you should first focus on changing their enviornment and changing the expectations you place upon them.

Brickloading a 25 yr old truck with no power steering or seat belt, sending it out onto a route with a time study that is 2 hrs behind reality, and then screaming at the driver for failing to live up to your impossible expectations does not constitute "safe by choice".

Simply requiring that same driver to sit in your "safe zone" and recite your commentaries before his start time does not solve the underlying problem of the unsafe enviornment that you have created.

I really think you're wasting your temper tantrum on this site. I think you should fly down to atlanta and throw a big old caniption fit on scott davis floor. Really tell him how pissed you are that the world did not come to a complete stop when you asked for these vehicle modifications. Perhaps crap your pants just to add a little mustard to the conversation.
 

tieguy

Banned
Because that is all that the Safety Committee is allowed to do. If you dont have anything relevant to say, your only option is to just repeat yourself in order to fill up the time.

oh um ok. Boy that really told me a lot. And you have been the member of how many safety committees for how long? Do you need a fresh crying towel yet or is the current one still good?
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
oh um ok. Boy that really told me a lot. And you have been the member of how many safety committees for how long? Do you need a fresh crying towel yet or is the current one still good?


I think I disliked you better with your old avatar.
I changed your type color to brown to match your blood.
 

LastBest&Final

To Endeavor To Persevere
Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy
It's been almost 3 months since I joined the safety committee, and I have yet to accomplish anything. I've drilled drivers on safe methods and DOK (Depth Of Knowledge), listened in on conference calls, but that's pretty much all I've done.

When did you join. Your first post on this thread seems to indicate it was about two months ago. Drilling drivers on safe work methods and DOK is important as far as training goes. Have you attended any safety meetings reviewed any accidents or injuries developed any plans to prevent based on trends , done any facility walk throughs. These are things that the safety committee does. What else did you expect to do?


Using safe work methods and DOK is important, but knowing them word for word with using them is a waste of time. Many of us, who join the safety committee, want to actually improve the safety conditions at UPS, not just to say that we want to. We would like to prevent an accident or injury before it happens, so we don't have to review after it already happen.

I recently reported that my pkg car had been damaged, while being used by a cover driver. This "accident" was conveniently covered up, so that it wouldn't go on the accident frequency report. Our mechanic told me that he would have to write up the replacement of my pkg car mirror arm and part of my TP60, as accidents. I told him to go ahead, and reported this to my On-Road, who was seated in the "safety zone" having a conversation with the Division safety manager DSM. The on-road got all red in the face and blasted off to go speak with the mechanic.

You have a package car with damage on it and you expect us to charge someone with it with no witnesses?

After punching out, I went upstairs to speak with the DSM. I told her that I was contemplating quitting as safety co-chair, due to the fact that I was never trained and didn't re
Accidents should be reported and not be covered up. I seen many drivers get charge with an accident when they bring their car back to the center with damaged on it, and I've seen a select few drivers that don't get charged for it. I seen drivers get fired for not reporting damages to their pkg cars, and the company had no witnesses of the accident.
ally do anything, besides what I listed above. She blah blah blah-ed me, for like 25 minutes. She ended by saying, basically, that mgmt is in charge of safety. So as I understood it, mgmt has control over what slips out and gets reported, and what doesn't. During this conversation, my on-road, got red faced again, and started telling me, "Haven't you punched, don't you need to leave".

management does like to hear thierselves talk. With that said you should look to help improve the safety culture in your center regardless of how much management likes to hear thierselves talk.

That is the last straw for me. I am hereby resigning from the safety committee for the following reasons.

1: After having realized that I was speaking out of my butt, when telling people to be safe and do the methods, I was not doing, I turned around and did all of the methods, as required, which made me go significantly slower on my route than I had previously gone. My supervisor and manager were all over me about going over 9/5. I told them that I had too much work and had I done the route as it was supposed to be done, in the first place, the stops would be lower than what they assumed I was "capable" of. I received a warning letter for a ONE DAY OJS ride. How can this happen, when they have no comparative data?

what exactly were you doing that would save you two hours a day? Big loss from everything you have said. How do you do when the sup ojs's you? You will get a lot of sympathy here from others but it may be time to do some soul searching. two hours is a lot to drop. You could do jumping jacks in between each delivery and not lose two hours.

If you work unsafe and don't follow UPS's method you can save two hours a day. He just proved it.
2: The person that delivers the mall has 2 handcarts, and is expected to push/pull both of them, simultaneously. How is this "safe"?

Guy probably pushs a baby stroller and shopping cart around on the weekends and does not think anything of it.



The answer to the question is: It is not safe to push one handcart while pulling another. That is an injury waiting to happen. I wouldn't push a baby stroller and a shopping cart at the same time, either.

3: Drivers are working, even though they are injured.

drivers decision to do so? Some people are pretty tough and work through minor pain.



I agree, that is the drivers decision, but it could cause futher injuries. Some people are pretty tough, or they just might be a little foolish.

4: Drivers still talk on handheld cell phones while driving.

Turn em in



Who you going to rat them out to? Management? From what has been going on, do you think they will do anything? Maybe if it slows production, they would have a problem with it, but then again not reporting accidents, working unsafe, and working injured is good for the company.

5: The myriad of other unsafe behavior that mgmt puts blinders to.

If you're managment group is going out and doing regular observations and holding people accountable for unsafe behavior then they are not turning complete blinders to safety. This is where you and the rest of the safety committe comes in. you see unsafe behavior you talk to the driver and fix it without management busting the guys but. Thats a service you could be providing your fellow man.

You can talk to the driver about the unsafe behavior, but only they can fix it. It won't have much of an effect on a driver unless management is truely committed that safety is first.
MGMT wants to nit pick the things you do when you run "overallowed", but when you are pleasing to the numbers, everything is okay. That being said, I believe that UPS touting safety is a farce. The safety committee is full of politics that I refuse to be a party to. If UPS wanted a real safety committee, they'd make it unattached to corporate mgmt/UPS. As with all of my posts, this has been my opinion.


Many of us have that same opinion, but some day we shall over come!!



it is what it is . And it is what you decide to make it. You decided to quit?

Tie, we see things differently and I truly appreciate your commits. He didn't quit the safety committee, but instead the committee decided to quit safety. You shouldn't be involved in something, if you don't agree with it. It makes you a hypocrite. The title safety Co-chair might give some one authority, but the best way to lead is by example.
 
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