Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise Model

[Cactus]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

I have no idea. I think R1a once suggested the the FAA requirements were fairly limited in stature and that at some point freight could be transferred to contract carriers. Every move thus far has been made to cut cost with current employees. That is not to suggest that a hybrid system couldn't be put into place down the line. Are you beginning to see it at shared dropboxes?

Shared dropboxes are only being test marketed in 3 different US cities. For now you're just pipedreaming.

 

[barnyard]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

It all goes back to the degree of control in which FedEx implements way too much.

Not any different than a driver that leases a truck with an OTR carrier. Most agreements restrict them to pulling only trailers with the lease company. That means, if a driver is stuck somewhere, they cannot go to something like a Landstar load board, find on outgoing load, book it and haul. They have to sit until their company finds them a load. Even if that means they cannot make their truck payment, they have to sit until the company finds them a load.

That seems to be quite a bit more control than the FE contractor model.

As distasteful as it is to most of us, this is yet another case where big money as spoken.

Good thing the trucking industry was deregulated, eh.

 

[bbsam]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

So in other words, UPS will be the only overnight delivery service.

Huh? I think Fred will cut back on Express to a skeleton crew eventually and use contractors as much as possible from the "destination ramp". I have no idea how that affects UPS.

 

[Cactus]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

So you insist that Ground is a fraud and thus illegal?

Yes I do.

But then again, I don't have Fred's money and political influence to make the politicians and courts to see it that way.

Get it?

 

[MAKAVELI]

It all goes back to the degree of control in which FedEx implements way too much.

Not any different than a driver that leases a truck with an OTR carrier. Most agreements restrict them to pulling only trailers with the lease company. That means, if a driver is stuck somewhere, they cannot go to something like a Landstar load board, find on outgoing load, book it and haul. They have to sit until their company finds them a load. Even if that means they cannot make their truck payment, they have to sit until the company finds them a load.

That seems to be quite a bit more control than the FE contractor model.

As distasteful as it is to most of us, this is yet another case where big money as spoken.

Good thing the trucking industry was deregulated, eh.

One big difference is the FE contractors own their trucks and are not leasing them from FE.

 

[barnyard]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Some lease operations even have forced dispatch. You might think you own the truck, but you cannot go home unless dispatch routes you through home. I have met a driver that asked to be routed through home and waited 6 weeks before he finally had a load routed through his home town.

That is control over an employee and it also seems to be legal.

Good luck changing that.

 

[barnyard]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

One big difference is the FE contractors own their trucks and are not leasing them from FE.

Don't they buy the trucks from FE or approved dealers???? I would bet that FE gets a portion.

 

[MAKAVELI]

One big difference is the FE contractors own their trucks and are not leasing them from FE.

Don't they buy the trucks from FE or approved dealers???? I would bet that FE gets a portion.

I have no idea if FedEx gets a cut but from what I understand the contractors acquire the trucks and FedEx leases them from the contractor.

 

[barnyard]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

One big difference is the FE contractors own their trucks and are not leasing them from FE.

Which compared to the fleece contractor is less control. I would think.

 

[MAKAVELI]

One big difference is the FE contractors own their trucks and are not leasing them from FE.

Which compared to the fleece contractor is less control. I would think.

You obviously are not very familiar with FedEx. The lease agreement is to have control of the vehicle while contracted with FedEx.

 

[oldrps]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Did the old Airborne have the same problems with their contractor status with the IRS? That would be a better comparison vs OTR trucking.

It could give you a glimpse of the future of the FedEx Package Division, both Express and Ground combined, employees sorting and flying with linehaul and deliveries with contractors. It will take a lot more Ground volume to make this work. They need to get the percentage of Ground/Express mix closer to the UPS Ground/Air mix before they will do this. Maybe this is why they are letting Express volume dwindle.

Only when the two divisions are combined will this be a very profitable company, two networks are very expensive and is the reason why UPS is still competitive on price. Once that is gone, FedEx could put a major hurt UPS on pricing.

 

[Cactus]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Good thing the trucking industry was deregulated, eh.

Uh yeah, Just like when the Savings & Loan industry was deregulated in the early 1980's.
Savings and loan crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[northbound]

One big difference is the FE contractors own their trucks and are not leasing them from FE.

Don't they buy the trucks from FE or approved dealers???? I would bet that FE gets a portion.

You can buy any truck new or used from any dealer you want. It has to meet standards. I currently have gmc/Chevy/dodge/ford/freightliner vans/box trucks/pick up/tractor operating

 

[bbsam]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

You obviously are not very familiar with FedEx. The lease agreement is to have control of the vehicle while contracted with FedEx.

I think it is you who is not familiar with how much control a company is allowed to have and how it factors into the determination of contractor or employee. A google search turns up interesting cases should you care to learn more than what MFE regurgitatea here for your intellectual fulfillment.

 

[bbsam]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Did the old Airborne have the same problems with their contractor status with the IRS? That would be a better comparison vs OTR trucking.

It could give you a glimpse of the future of the FedEx Package Division, both Express and Ground combined, employees sorting and flying with linehaul and deliveries with contractors. It will take a lot more Ground volume to make this work. They need to get the percentage of Ground/Express mix closer to the UPS Ground/Air mix before they will do this. Maybe this is why they are letting Express volume dwindle.

Only when the two divisions are combined will this be a very profitable company, two networks are very expensive and is the reason why UPS is still competitive on price. Once that is gone, FedEx could put a major hurt UPS on pricing.

I could see it happening. In fact, we already use Fedex office as a delivery point for customers who request it. I could see a mingling of evening deliveries spurring this forward. No point in having two opcos waiting 'til after 5 for a delivery in a remote town. And they did roll it out for all the opcos at EXACTLY THE SAME TIME.

 

[barnyard]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

You obviously are not very familiar with FedEx. The lease agreement is to have control of the vehicle while contracted with FedEx.

I am fairly familiar actually.

I spoke to both of my Senators about it while they were campaigning. If a person wants to lobby for something effectively, it is important to know what you are lobbying for and what the implications may be.

It is very easy to paint a picture that shows the control that FE has over it's contractors. Just as it is very easy to show that many trucking companies have a lot of control over their fleece operators. We see the control as beating down the employees, Congress sees it as job creation and moving goods around the country cheaply. To change the contractor/fleece operator model would be to raise freight rates over night. That would cause a nightmare for any legislator that voted for it. It would not only raise FE rates, it would also cause the rates of OTR freight to go up.

Back when I farmed, I hauled hay by the semi load for extra cash. I was paid $2/mile 25+ years ago. Today, hay haulers are making about $1.50/mile including fuel surcharge. Over 25 years, OTR real wages have gone down, way down. Changing the model so that drivers would be paid a fair rate would cause trucking rates to immediately go up by a significant amount.

The point that I am trying to make is that you can complain all you want and it will not change that big money will always get their way. If they do not, they will change the laws so that they can.

You all are complaining to the wrong group.

You need to contact legislators. Not the teamsters, not UPSers, but your own congress person and senator. When you contact them, you need to explain how the current classification is harming you and how a change would help you and how it would help your community. It would also help to get others to write the same or also sign your letter.

Even then, I would expect no change, unless you found a lobbyist that is willing to spend some money on your behalf. Expect to have to counter every argument presented not only by FE, but by fleece operators also.

 

[barnyard]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Uh yeah, Just like when the Savings & Loan industry was deregulated in the early 1980's.
Savings and loan crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is actually only 1 industry that has been deregulated and employee pay has not suffered. Their numbers have suffered, but pay has not. Every other industry that has been deregulated has resulted in loss of pay and benefits to their employees.

It is hard to argue against deregulation though. Businesses will tell you that they will provide cheaper goods and services if they are deregulated. They do not tell you that they will provide that by cutting wages, pillaging retirements and purging blue collar employees. Even the 1 industry that has survived deregulation has done it at the cost of thousands of jobs.

 

[MrFedEx]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Did the old Airborne have the same problems with their contractor status with the IRS? That would be a better comparison vs OTR trucking.

It could give you a glimpse of the future of the FedEx Package Division, both Express and Ground combined, employees sorting and flying with linehaul and deliveries with contractors. It will take a lot more Ground volume to make this work. They need to get the percentage of Ground/Express mix closer to the UPS Ground/Air mix before they will do this. Maybe this is why they are letting Express volume dwindle.

Only when the two divisions are combined will this be a very profitable company, two networks are very expensive and is the reason why UPS is still competitive on price. Once that is gone, FedEx could put a major hurt UPS on pricing.

There are several versions of the "old" Airborne. The most recent was their stillborn Ground operation, just before they went under. Airborne used to have both contractors and union locations. For example, I know that in the LA area for a long time, Airborne used contractors. The trucks were silver, but there was sub-lettering on the side that indicated the truck was leased to Airborne. There were also cities where Airborne was a union shop and had company drivers driving Airborne-owned vehicles.

 

[MrFedEx]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

I think it is you who is not familiar with how much control a company is allowed to have and how it factors into the determination of contractor or employee. A google search turns up interesting cases should you care to learn more than what MFE regurgitatea here for your intellectual fulfillment.

What I "regurgitate" is simple fact. You can cough-up all the alternate cases you want, and the fact still remains that companies holding their contracted workers to employee-like requirements end-up creating what they didn't want in the first place....actual employees.

 

[Code 82 Approved]

Re: Someone Tell Me How The Ground "SCAM" Is Any Different Than Any Other Franchise M

Shared dropboxes are only being test marketed in 3 different US cities. For now you're just pipedreaming.

I'm in one of those 3, and since September if I picked up fifty Ground packages out of fifteen boxes daily since then, it would be a generous estimate.