space and vis

[canon]

Ahhhhh, Canon. As I said in a post somewhere in here, I've called Tie on things when I think he's wrong. I very much believe in respect and abhor the ganging up on Tie that happens quite a bit on this board. No, if I have a problem with something Tie says, I'll discuss it with him directly. So far, he's been reasonable and willing to talk. Until THAT changes, its status quo. -Rocky

I believe you said you have, just not in public. Does everyone get the same treatment, or is that a management only courtesy?

Who says I haven't held Tie to the same standards? I may not have done it in public but I have argued with him. Interesting arguements, I must say.

For the sake of posterity, it would be interesting for you to point out the next agressor in the next debate. I'll bet it would exclude any guilt on Tie's part. Or maybe you'll just tell him and then jump in when it's time to fight with those standing up to Tie's insults. Again, we'll see if you walk the walk.

Thought you said you weren't posting anymore on this subject? You know you're addicted!

 

[satellitedriver]

All right, gents. This was a nice distraction for a Saturday. Thanks. I'll step to the sidelines now and let ya'll duke it out. Tie, I'm glad we have something of and alliance against the laziness pervading the company. And Canon/CACH: I watch for posts I disagree with. I'll defend Tie if I think he's right but I'm not gonna play dirty. I like to keep it clean as much as possible. I'll name-call if its appropriate but I've found reason goes a lot further in most situations. Tie: good fight. We'll have to do it again soon. -Rocky

I'm glad we have something of and alliance against the laziness pervading the company.

Cheap last shot, Rocky.
I will defend Tie just as soon as I would Canon. Both have strong opinions and are willing to verbally duke it out, but when you say things like "the laziness pervading the company" you are speaking directly to all. The laziness of management not to fix the problems that they created and the laziness of drivers not being able to fix the problem. No personal attack on you, but the word laziness applied to anyone that works at UPS makes my fangs pop out.

 

[helenofcalifornia]

You are showing your lack of experience at UPS when you call us "lazy." It's almost impossible for a driver to be lazy. They are given a truck to deliver and they have to bring it back in with their daily pu's. Some may do it in less time, some may take longer. Regardless, any person that does this is not lazy. Lazy is sitting behind a desk all day answering phones compared to driving. How old are you? With age comes experience which is a good thing.

 

[tieguy]

You're ignoring the repeated post that I have a fine working relationship with management at my building. Not when it comes to PAS. I can do my job without shutting my mouth.

I respect Rock's opinion... but that doesn't mean I have to remain silent. It's not "beating the guy" to disagree.

I find that point of yours the hardest to believe. You constantly cry about the management crew in your building not fixing your problems and unnecessarily harrassing you. You also posted a listing in which you listed all the management who got fired from your building for less then honorable means.

Which ones do you now claim to have a good working relationship with? The ones fired for dishonesty or the ones that harrass you undeservedly?

 

[canon]

I find that point of yours the hardest to believe. You constantly cry about the management crew in your building not fixing your problems and unnecessarily harrassing you. You also posted a listing in which you listed all the management who got fired from your building for less then honorable means.

Which ones do you now claim to have a good working relationship with? The ones fired for dishonesty or the ones that harrass you undeservedly?

Tie, do you really see it as "crying" when I want PAS fixed? If they're bugging me about numbers, yet refuse to fix it so I can achieve the numbers they want, wouldn't you consider that unnecessary harrassment? I get along with them because I'm respectful and do whatever I can to make sure they think I'm doing a good job. That doesn't mean I get a free ticket to as many over 9.5's as I want.

And I have a good working relationship with all management, current and past (excluding 2 on that list). That doesn't mean they receive a "get out of responsibility" card from me. I hold them to the same standards as they hold me to. The difference is I can't make them be professional. I can, however, treat them with the same respect I have for anyone who hasn't earned my disrespect.

 

[tieguy]

Tie, do you really see it as "crying" when I want PAS fixed? If they're bugging me about numbers, yet refuse to fix it so I can achieve the numbers they want, wouldn't you consider that unnecessary harrassment? I get along with them because I'm respectful and do whatever I can to make sure they think I'm doing a good job. That doesn't mean I get a free ticket to as many over 9.5's as I want.

And I have a good working relationship with all management, current and past (excluding 2 on that list). That doesn't mean they receive a "get out of responsibility" card from me. I hold them to the same standards as they hold me to. The difference is I can't make them be professional. I can, however, treat them with the same respect I have for anyone who hasn't earned my disrespect.

Canon i wish it was as simple as getting pas fixed. I have never seen you say anything positive about any management person in your building. All of a sudden you then try to blurt out that you have a good working relationship with management. Your claim rings hollow with your track record as a management slammer.

 

[RockyRogue]

You are showing your lack of experience at UPS when you call us "lazy." It's almost impossible for a driver to be lazy. They are given a truck to deliver and they have to bring it back in with their daily pu's. Some may do it in less time, some may take longer. Regardless, any person that does this is not lazy. Lazy is sitting behind a desk all day answering phones compared to driving. How old are you? With age comes experience which is a good thing.

Helen, I think my comment was taken out of context or I didn't word it right. There's a serious lack of motivation on the part of some, if not many employees. SOME of the p/t'er hourlies are some of the worst offenders. They take their sweeeeet time unloading or whatever their job is. This laziness is what make me ill and is much more along the lines of what I was talking about. Lazy DRIVERS???? Are you frigging kidding me? I've had the pleasure and privilege of working with over a dozen UPS drivers in two different cities. NONE of them were lazy. All were highly trained and effective professionals. My hats off to the people on the street everyday making this company run. I wish I had the stamina and physical endurance to do it but those 6-8 weeks as a helper didn't make me want to drive!! And I'm 22, by the way. This is my second stint as an inside employee so all told I've worked for UPS about 18 months. Yes, yes, I know, not very long.

I'm glad we have something of and alliance against the laziness pervading the company.

Cheap last shot, Rocky.
I will defend Tie just as soon as I would Canon. Both have strong opinions and are willing to verbally duke it out, but when you say things like "the laziness pervading the company" you are speaking directly to all. The laziness of management not to fix the problems that they created and the laziness of drivers not being able to fix the problem. No personal attack on you, but the word laziness applied to anyone that works at UPS makes my fangs pop out.

I admit it was a cheap shot, Satellite. I apologize for directing it towards all but it was meant for specific people working for UPS. I don't blame you for the fangs, Satellite. If someone called ME lazy to my face (as a sup once did) we'd be going toe-to-toe. By the way, in that instance, I told the p/t sup to call the friend/t over to tell me I was lazy or go away. Guy walked away.

I won't defend everyone on this site. If I agree with a post, I'll jump in. Same goes if for if I don't. Tie and I just happen to agree more than union workers would like to admit. I belong to the IBT but mostly only because the only steward on my sort works on my sort aisle. -Rock

 

[satellitedriver]

Helen, I think my comment was taken out of context or I didn't word it right. There's a serious lack of motivation on the part of some, if not many employees. SOME of the p/t'er hourlies are some of the worst offenders. They take their sweeeeet time unloading or whatever their job is. This laziness is what make me ill and is much more along the lines of what I was talking about. Lazy DRIVERS???? Are you frigging kidding me? I've had the pleasure and privilege of working with over a dozen UPS drivers in two different cities. NONE of them were lazy. All were highly trained and effective professionals. My hats off to the people on the street everyday making this company run. I wish I had the stamina and physical endurance to do it but those 6-8 weeks as a helper didn't make me want to drive!! And I'm 22, by the way. This is my second stint as an inside employee so all told I've worked for UPS about 18 months. Yes, yes, I know, not very long.



I admit it was a cheap shot, Satellite. I apologize for directing it towards all but it was meant for specific people working for UPS. I don't blame you for the fangs, Satellite. If someone called ME lazy to my face (as a sup once did) we'd be going toe-to-toe. By the way, in that instance, I told the p/t sup to call the friend/t over to tell me I was lazy or go away. Guy walked away.

I won't defend everyone on this site. If I agree with a post, I'll jump in. Same goes if for if I don't. Tie and I just happen to agree more than union workers would like to admit. I belong to the IBT but mostly only because the only steward on my sort works on my sort aisle. -Rock

Be specific then.
I tend to agree with Tie on many subjects. I totally agree with Canon about the problems that need to be addressed about PAS/EDD(and will be given time).
I am troubled by your sentence,
"I belong to the IBT but mostly only because the only steward on my sort works on my sort aisle.".
It makes it sound like you are afraid of the teamsters. If you are, that is your choice. If you need a stewart because management is so blatant in their demands on you it sounds like you need to stand up for yourself.
I personally do not belong to the union. I have a good relationship with management because I speak to them they same way I speak to all my fellow workers.

 

[RockyRogue]

Be specific then.
I tend to agree with Tie on many subjects. I totally agree with Canon about the problems that need to be addressed about PAS/EDD(and will be given time).
I am troubled by your sentence,
"I belong to the IBT but mostly only because the only steward on my sort works on my sort aisle.".
It makes it sound like you are afraid of the teamsters. If you are, that is your choice. If you need a stewart because management is so blatant in their demands on you it sounds like you need to stand up for yourself.
I personally do not belong to the union. I have a good relationship with management because I speak to them they same way I speak to all my fellow workers.

Satellite, I'm not following you. What would you like me to be specific about? The things I agree with Tie on? There're too many too list here and I really don't feel like trying to come up with a list anyway. As to PAS/EDD...I worked with it for 6-8 weeks in Denver and I really didn't like it. Then again (and this isn't meant to be smart-alecky), but I'm not the highly trained professional driver that UPS puts on the roads EVERY day. CACH warned off of trying to have a discussion re: PAS. I too think, just based on what I know about PAS/EDD, that it'll be fixed eventually. It'll require a top-down redesign and millions of dollars to get it right but I still think its worth getting right.

Afraid of the Teamsters???? Satellite, I thought we had this discussion a few months ago. In any event, NO, I'm not scared of the Teamsters. I just have to work with this steward and don't want an issue. Management makes demands of me but they're fairly reasonable. When they are not reasonable, I complain. They didn't listen the last time. I went above them in UPS management. It stopped the following day. Long story.

I have a good relationship with my management for much the same reason. I'm professional, don't involve the union in petty smilet and I talk to them the same way I would my co-workers. I think I mentioned this somewhere but its just amazing what a little decency will get you. So far, I'm very happy with the status quo. UPS management may change that suddenly and if they do, I'm OK with it cuz I can and will leave. That's not talking nasty about my sup or anything, its just the truth. I'll leave if I don't like the way I'm being treated. -Rocky

 

[canon]

Canon i wish it was as simple as getting pas fixed. I have never seen you say anything positive about any management person in your building. All of a sudden you then try to blurt out that you have a good working relationship with management. Your claim rings hollow with your track record as a management slammer.

Tie, like I've said all along: the people on the board are free to read the posts themselves. Just because you say something, doesn't mean it's true. In fact, you've done nothing but lie once you saw I'm not someone that just going to sit back and take your crap.

The following are clips from posts made by me, and the sad part is that most of them were made in debates with you. Say it again tie, you've never seen me say anything positive about any management in my building. Maybe say it out loud as you read thru some my posts. I only went thru the first 3.5 pages of my posts. There are another 7 or so if you care to continue looking.

My problems with management have centered around issues with PAS. That doesn't mean I don't get along with them, nor have I said negative things other than they wont work on pas. There are management who don't deserve the title they hold, and for those I comment too. Management who holds drivers to numbers they know are impossible paints a really ugly picture for what life is like at UPS... which is why it was discussed in the thread "Is UPS really this bad to work for?" There's no way around dealing with management in that scenario. Go ahead tie, call me stupid again. Nobody really expects you do anything else anyway... not even rocky. He'll overlook that and side with you... but hey, that's his perogative.

01-20-2007, 11:59 PM

earning mgmt's respect has always been of importance to me (maybe it the military influence... huah lol) so I do what is expected and have always tried to be on the courteous/helpful side of requests from management. I've never even put in for an 8hour because I know it's a pain to cover pickups etc,

01-21-2007, 09:06 AM
I finished my airs and offered him the opportunity to see the rest of my route (super nice guy, i was glad to have the company) or return to his car while we were still relatively close to it. He bailed saying he didn't want to be out that late after I told him it was going to be another long day due to the mileage. As it turns out, he and his wife had just adopted a girl and wanted to get home to his family. Go figure. I congratulated him on their decision to adopt, shook his hand and said "welcome to the center" with the same smile on my face I use for angry/difficult customers.

01-22-2007, 07:26 PM

I'm not saying there aren't drivers equally guilty of the exact same things above, but each one of those people were in charge of me at one point or another. I've had a few managers confide in me (I really do try to earn their respect) and tell me they know the numbers are wrong, but there's nothing they can do except what corporate tells them. And as much pressure as there is on us to work faster, the threat of not being promoted or even being terminated is strong enough for some mgmt to risk falsifying records. Either face discipline for not meeting the impossible numbers, or face discipline for trying to fake the impossible numbers. Which one would get you?



But I do like my job, that's why I want it fixed.

01-26-2007, 11:10 PM
As one center manager told us, "Just because you don't sit in an office all day doesn't mean anything. You are highly paid and highly trained professionals who earn the respect and business from our customers." (Talk about someone who could motivate the drivers... he went on to become a division manager. No college either.)

01-27-2007, 02:47 PM
I asked it in another thread... what's wrong with trying to fix things? Fixing them begins with acknowledging they exist... something managment is a bit reluctant to do. Congrats on your retirement, I hope it's everything you dreamt it would be. I still have a ways to go, would love for a few things to change between now and then. That doesn't mean I hate the company.

01-27-2007, 04:38 PM
You've see post after post where other drivers have agreed with my assessments of how management treats drivers, runners or slackers. They're all wrong? I didn't misrepresent anything and have from day one maintained I only want PAS fixed so I might actually be able to do a good job in the eyes of the people who say i'm not. I'm not a liar. But you're quite effective in avoiding having to answer anything that might not be "wow, ups is the greatest".

Dishonesty comes in many forms.

Going to Cheesecake Factory now... have fun.

01-28-2007, 06:24 PM
In continuation of discussing workplace issues, I found a denver site that seems to echo almost exatcly the frustrations drivers have raised in these forums. While he has a whole page dealing with PAS issues, I haven't read them all. It's amazing how many people say the exact same thing, yet UPS doesn't seem to want to fix any of the issues the drivers face everyday.

Why won't UPS take the necessaary steps to fix PAS? The drivers might actually be able to meet the expectations, management will look better on paper, and UPS will see more profits via efficiency.

01-31-2007, 08:51 PM
I don't think anyone is out there crying in their package car everyday. I remain respectful with my boss, I don't let my frustrations be visible to the customer, I try to do the best with what is given me and have been for almost two years concerning PAS. But at some point... IT'S FAIR TO ASK WHY CAN'T THEY FIX IT?

Why don't you do the same for my requests for you to drop the insults and simply discuss the issues. Or better yet, post the number of times you've called me stupid, a liar, or lazy. I've tried to discuss things with you tie. I've tried being civil. Yes, there are management that don't deserve the tie and I come down hard on them. But that doesn't make me the person you keep trying to say I am. And your lies to the contrary "ring hollow" in the face of the evidence.

Like I said, post it or admit you're a liar.

 

[over9five]

Help! Save us!!

REQUEST TO MODERATOR


Please, PLEASE, end this thread!!! Put it in the archives, NO JUST DELETE IT FOREVER!!

It goes on and on!!! The same things over and over again!!!

 

[cachsux]

Re: Help! Save us!!

REQUEST TO MODERATOR


Please, PLEASE, end this thread!!! Put it in the archives, NO JUST DELETE IT FOREVER!!

It goes on and on!!! The same things over and over again!!!

And who has broken into your home to force you to read it at gunpoint? Tell us where your at and we`ll send help.

 

[tieguy]

You are showing your lack of experience at UPS when you call us "lazy." It's almost impossible for a driver to be lazy. They are given a truck to deliver and they have to bring it back in with their daily pu's. Some may do it in less time, some may take longer. Regardless, any person that does this is not lazy. Lazy is sitting behind a desk all day answering phones compared to driving. How old are you? With age comes experience which is a good thing.

And If I understand your point you feel a certain anxiety to get the stuff off your car. And yet some don't feel the same anxiety to get those packages off the car. Some have no problem non-chalantly breaking route to go take some pictures somewhere.

 

[canon]

And If I understand your point you feel a certain anxiety to get the stuff off your car. And yet some don't feel the same anxiety to get those packages off the car. Some have no problem non-chalantly breaking route to go take some pictures somewhere.

I really can't believe you randomly attack people like that and still have supporters. Quite the gem tie. Someone come to his defense. Who will champion that sort of arrogance?

Tie, in any forum on the net, you would be called a troll.

Troll

A Troll is a person who posts messages in order to provoke an angry response or to start trouble without adding anything worthwhile to the conversation.

Source: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/glossary/definition88.html


You really have highlighted your intent. I've fallen for it way too many times. Guess I can't be too disappointed.. it's has been fun.

 

[helenofcalifornia]

Tie, no Tie, maybe some of us have worked for the company for over 25 years and have bad shoulders, bad knees, etc. and can't keep up with the young guns. So I should quit?????? Doesn't mean that I am coming in late or over in my SPOHR, just means I don't run it off like the youngsters. Dude, did you EVER drive, and if so, for how long? You just disrespected me and you don't even know me.

 

[tieguy]

I really can't believe you randomly attack people like that and still have supporters. Quite the gem tie. Someone come to his defense. Who will champion that sort of arrogance?

Oh no you didn't? I can't believe you just complained after all the guff you have thrown my way and management in generals way? I'm sorry I couldn't resist that shot. Lord knows you have worked hard to earn it.

 

[tieguy]

Tie, no Tie, maybe some of us have worked for the company for over 25 years and have bad shoulders, bad knees, etc. and can't keep up with the young guns. So I should quit?????? Doesn't mean that I am coming in late or over in my SPOHR, just means I don't run it off like the youngsters. Dude, did you EVER drive, and if so, for how long? You just disrespected me and you don't even know me.

Actually I didn't fire the shot at you or certainly did not intend to. No I fired that one at my good friend Canon. My apologies if I left my finger on the trigger too long

 

[canon]

Oh no you didn't? I can't believe you just complained after all the guff you have thrown my way and management in generals way? I'm sorry I couldn't resist that shot. Lord knows you have worked hard to earn it.

You saw the context in which I have targeted management. It deals with PAS related refusal to fix it. It deals with "bad apples" in management... and the whole while admitting I get along with management. If not, scroll up. I went to the trouble to post the points which you denied exist, and people can read for themselves. The "guff" I have thrown your way is because of the way you behave in here with the insults.

As I said:

Troll

A Troll is a person who posts messages in order to provoke an angry response or to start trouble without adding anything worthwhile to the conversation.

Gonna give you last word again on this one tie. You bring nothing new to the table.

 

[satellitedriver]

Satellite, I'm not following you. What would you like me to be specific about? The things I agree with Tie on? There're too many too list here and I really don't feel like trying to come up with a list anyway. As to PAS/EDD...I worked with it for 6-8 weeks in Denver and I really didn't like it. Then again (and this isn't meant to be smart-alecky), but I'm not the highly trained professional driver that UPS puts on the roads EVERY day. CACH warned off of trying to have a discussion re: PAS. I too think, just based on what I know about PAS/EDD, that it'll be fixed eventually. It'll require a top-down redesign and millions of dollars to get it right but I still think its worth getting right.

Afraid of the Teamsters???? Satellite, I thought we had this discussion a few months ago. In any event, NO, I'm not scared of the Teamsters. I just have to work with this steward and don't want an issue. Management makes demands of me but they're fairly reasonable. When they are not reasonable, I complain. They didn't listen the last time. I went above them in UPS management. It stopped the following day. Long story.

I have a good relationship with my management for much the same reason. I'm professional, don't involve the union in petty smilet and I talk to them the same way I would my co-workers. I think I mentioned this somewhere but its just amazing what a little decency will get you. So far, I'm very happy with the status quo. UPS management may change that suddenly and if they do, I'm OK with it cuz I can and will leave. That's not talking nasty about my sup or anything, its just the truth. I'll leave if I don't like the way I'm being treated. -Rocky

"Satellite, I'm not following you. What would you like me to be specific about?"

You were not specific about who at UPS you were calling lazy in your first post.
You are part of the union because you do not want issues. That sounded like a lazy way out to me.
If you do not like the way your being treated you will leave. That too is taking a lazy way out.
I guess I should apologize, but I am a hard case when it comes to bowing down to any form of intimidation from the union or management.
You just can't have it both ways.

 

[RockyRogue]

"Satellite, I'm not following you. What would you like me to be specific about?"

You were not specific about who at UPS you were calling lazy in your first post.
You are part of the union because you do not want issues. That sounded like a lazy way out to me.
If you do not like the way your being treated you will leave. That too is taking a lazy way out.
I guess I should apologize, but I am a hard case when it comes to bowing down to any form of intimidation from the union or management.
You just can't have it both ways.

There are a lot of lazy people at UPS, Satellite. I've worked with many I'd almost prefer NOT to have around as they just messed up the operation so badly.

I joined the union because this guy works on my area. I don't want a problem with him. For the moment, I'll part with the money. If given a reason to leave the union (other than the reasons on here, I'll do it). So far, I don't have a good reason.

If I don't like the way I'm being treated, I'll speak up. I'm a very opinionated person and I make that opinion own, often very loudly. It usually only takes one complaint before I'm treated the way I want or the way I deserve, depending on the situation and the supervisor.

I guess I should amend what I said in my previous posts about leaving. I'm in grad school with a degree with direct applications to UPS but with a family member in management, going further with UPS isn't gonna happen. If UPS made an offer that included something of a bigger challenge while I'm working on my degree or for after I'm done with it, I'll definitely stay. Otherwise, I'll leave.

And no need to apologize. I get a little too passionate sometimes. I'll be a little more careful about that. -Rocky