SurePost - A Subcontracting Violation that has led to the loss of many UPS jobs.
- Thread starter InsideUPS
- Start date
Spoken like the absent professor. Customers are NOT asking for this service, its OUR REPS who are pushing this service by transforming existing customers into surepost customers.
Large accounts, who have customarily shipped through UPS are given huge discounts for air services, and then with their ground, the REPS are suggesting the surepost to the customers.
I know, A few of my LARGE SHIPPERS were changed to surepost without even opening their mouth.
If UPS wants to offer cheaper services, I am all for it. Start by eliminating all the overweighted managers and useless operations managers and cut the rates.
We'd be the cheapest service in the business.
Create solid residential routes worth 8 hours a day with ZERO pickups. Service the customers. Diverting pkgs to the USPS where they are delayed, damaged, lost and left on mailboxes or near the street ISNT CUSTOMER SERVICE.
NO CUSTOMER IS ASKING FOR THAT.
The USPS carriers HATE the surepost and smartpost pkgs they have to deliver. Our drivers enjoy their workdays and enjoy the people they interact with everyday.
UPS has sold out customer service for a gutter delivery service in lieu of higher profits.
Peace
TOS
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Customers are asking for free shipping when they shop online; unfortunately, most are unaware of how SurePost or SmartPost works--they assume they will get the same service as if they paid standard rates.
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
The shipping isn't "free", the costs are paid by the shipper and they recoup those costs within their business model somehow. We just got an LL Bean order that came in 3 pkgs with "free" shipping, and they all were delivered by the UPS man. UPS surely makes a profit on SurePost, it would be interesting to know the margin on a SurePost vs a basic or standard UPS residential delivery.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I realize that the shipping isn't "free" and that the shipper recoups these costs elsewhere. How many of those LL Bean packages were Basic? I bet all 3 were.
I am an infrequent online shopper but when I do I always choose the lowest cost shipping option, which is usually "free", unless it is something that I need in a timely manner.
SurePost is a shipping option that UPS had to offer in response to SmartPost--to have ignored this option could have been disastrous.
I am not a fan of SurePost. I watch the bags of SurePost come down the belt as we wrap up our cars. I would love to see those bags emptied and the packages delivered by UPS drivers; however, I also understand the mindset of the consumer and know that they are willing to wait a day or so if they can get their package for "free".
Consumers have yet to figure out the returns process for SurePost packages as I pick up more and more RTS's at my UPS Store and MBE.
SurePost is not going anywhere and the sooner the naysayers realize this the better off they will be.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
All 3 came basic and I wonder who would have delivered them if LL Bean didn't have the SurePost option. Didn't LL Bean used to be a FedEx customer? I think that once the numbers are presented to the union that they will also agree that SurePost is staying. Reality is that if you want to make $32/hr you will have a jam packed truck with 10-11 or more hours of work. Despite how others would run the company, this is the business plan that UPS believes will make the most money.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
You are in the wrong thread if you think this logical, rational observation will be accepted.
Be prepared to be lambasted by diatribes based on emotion and hate from bitter people.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I don't have the exact numbers on these but I have heard that the SurePost margin is less than half of the Ground margin which is anemic itself.
I understand that UPS provides SurePost as a means to get the other higher margin packages.
UPS tries to position the One-stop aspect of UPS is a strong selling point.
Basic contracts are not being renewed and if the customer contract is renewed, they are converted to SurePost.
menotyou
bella amicizia
I order quite a bit. I was never warned that because Lands End or LL Bean was running a special offering me free shipping, I shop there anyway, that I would have to wait a day. I watch the UPS truck drive by my house, but because of Surepost, I have to wait til tomorrow to get my package from the PO. The brown truck drives by my house, but let's waste resources and make me drive to the PO. Great for the environment, as well, I see.
curiousbrain
Well-Known Member
Given the different jobs that we all have, it is natural that we all have different views on what SurePost is or is not - which is to say, folks who work in "real" management probably see numbers (and their associated brethren) which say something specific; a driver, on the other hand, sees a truck with packages crammed into it, the USPS making final delivery, and that says something specific to them. It's just different perspectives on the same thing - in that vein, I'll put forth my own perspective.
Operationally speaking, in the building where I am employed, SurePost is a total nightmare for a variety of reasons; the primary one, however, is that it clogs small sort to the point where all other tasks become secondary, because the "post office" has to be cleaned out. To explain this a little further, my understanding is that as the USPS closes branches and consolidates, they are taking SurePost delivery for huge swaths of their area at a single point - practically, this means there are (again, using the building where I am employed as a reference) 500 to 1000 packages going to a single stop, on a single truck.
We are not really in the business of adding routes unless we absolutely have to, so ... the usual attitude of "screw it, make it fit" prevails, and any truck with a "consolidated post office" on it is floor to ceiling, front to back, smashed. Due to all this excess volume, at some point small sort becomes paralyzed - however, we are not really in the business of hiring extra people unless we absolutely have to, so ... we make the preloader scan/bag/load 500+ post office pieces, in addition to their normal duties.
This worked initially, but SurePost has at least doubled or tripled since we started doing this, and scanning each loose package/bag was cutting into the drivers day considerably; so, the solution that is now employed (and to be sure, the building where I am employed is not the only one) is to link everything to two or three ULD tags; have the driver scan those, and then just snowblow everything into mail carts and be on their way - this saves a lot of time for the driver, and most think it is great.
So, operationally, as far as I can tell, on the inside SurePost is an enormous amount of volume moving through an already stressed system. That's my personal, real view of SurePost.
Above my own view, though, I think (as illustrated in this thread), some regard SurePost as stealing full-time jobs because each SurePost stop is one less stop a driver is delivering; from a bean counters perspective, however, each less stop a driver is delivering is one more profitable stop (i.e. non-SurePost) they can deliver, generating more revenue - additionally, if SurePost can eliminate several hundred stops from a building, that is less drivers who require health/pension payments ... equalling more savings. The spread between the cost of a SurePost delivery versus a Ground (or above) delivery must be weighed against the cost of putting out another route/driver (or possibly more than one).
One step above that, though, it stands to reason that without SurePost the volume wouldn't be there to argue about - that is to say, if SurePost didn't exist, those several hundred stops wouldn't be in the UPS system at all - which, in some sense, makes the argument about negating driver positions moot. And, if that is the case, then even a few cents profit on every SurePost package is, in some sense, "free". From a union perspective, if you eliminated SurePost completely, it could (maybe not would, but could) equal less jobs because volume would then go down, which equals cutting even more routes than they do now.
The above two paragraphs represent conjecture on my part, obviously, as I am not a driver and am most assuredly not "real" management. I will say, though, that the only time I get really chastised by "real" management is when I mess something up that costs real dollars - and, to that point, nothing brings the molten crazy like when we botch SurePost at a center level. Phones ring, things are red, and it overshadows everything else - that tells me that SurePost, in some way I may not understand, equals real money for the company.
Operationally speaking, in the building where I am employed, SurePost is a total nightmare for a variety of reasons; the primary one, however, is that it clogs small sort to the point where all other tasks become secondary, because the "post office" has to be cleaned out. To explain this a little further, my understanding is that as the USPS closes branches and consolidates, they are taking SurePost delivery for huge swaths of their area at a single point - practically, this means there are (again, using the building where I am employed as a reference) 500 to 1000 packages going to a single stop, on a single truck.
We are not really in the business of adding routes unless we absolutely have to, so ... the usual attitude of "screw it, make it fit" prevails, and any truck with a "consolidated post office" on it is floor to ceiling, front to back, smashed. Due to all this excess volume, at some point small sort becomes paralyzed - however, we are not really in the business of hiring extra people unless we absolutely have to, so ... we make the preloader scan/bag/load 500+ post office pieces, in addition to their normal duties.
This worked initially, but SurePost has at least doubled or tripled since we started doing this, and scanning each loose package/bag was cutting into the drivers day considerably; so, the solution that is now employed (and to be sure, the building where I am employed is not the only one) is to link everything to two or three ULD tags; have the driver scan those, and then just snowblow everything into mail carts and be on their way - this saves a lot of time for the driver, and most think it is great.
So, operationally, as far as I can tell, on the inside SurePost is an enormous amount of volume moving through an already stressed system. That's my personal, real view of SurePost.
Above my own view, though, I think (as illustrated in this thread), some regard SurePost as stealing full-time jobs because each SurePost stop is one less stop a driver is delivering; from a bean counters perspective, however, each less stop a driver is delivering is one more profitable stop (i.e. non-SurePost) they can deliver, generating more revenue - additionally, if SurePost can eliminate several hundred stops from a building, that is less drivers who require health/pension payments ... equalling more savings. The spread between the cost of a SurePost delivery versus a Ground (or above) delivery must be weighed against the cost of putting out another route/driver (or possibly more than one).
One step above that, though, it stands to reason that without SurePost the volume wouldn't be there to argue about - that is to say, if SurePost didn't exist, those several hundred stops wouldn't be in the UPS system at all - which, in some sense, makes the argument about negating driver positions moot. And, if that is the case, then even a few cents profit on every SurePost package is, in some sense, "free". From a union perspective, if you eliminated SurePost completely, it could (maybe not would, but could) equal less jobs because volume would then go down, which equals cutting even more routes than they do now.
The above two paragraphs represent conjecture on my part, obviously, as I am not a driver and am most assuredly not "real" management. I will say, though, that the only time I get really chastised by "real" management is when I mess something up that costs real dollars - and, to that point, nothing brings the molten crazy like when we botch SurePost at a center level. Phones ring, things are red, and it overshadows everything else - that tells me that SurePost, in some way I may not understand, equals real money for the company.
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beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
You have to understand, Tom, Dick and Harry working on the dock that you talk to on a daily basis are not usually the decision makers at a company. (I'm not talking about the 1-10 person companies). The CEO\CFO\CPO are the ones who work on reducing their costs and Surepost is a way to reduce costs. Do customers come out and say all the time "I want Surepost".. No.. But do customers say "I want lower rates" Absolutely.. all the time. Surepost is our answer to offer lower rates to a customer, while still making a little bit of profit on these accounts.
The "reps" as you call them are paid on commission, when they switch an account from ground to basic, their commission goes down. So the "reps" don't want to switch customers over. However... it is better for them to switch an account from ground to Surepost, then it is to lose the account entirely to Smartpost.
If the customers were happy with the service and happy with the rates, a "rep" would be a fool to switch them since it takes money out of their pocket.
You have to make up your mind, you and others have laughed at how mgmt pays hundreds of dollars per month in our own benefits and have had a year of no pay raises and new mgmt has no defined benefit pension. Yet you also say we are bloated. Not sure how long you have been around but we have far less mgmt people then we did 20 years ago. Take for example the Finance Dept. We used to have over a dozen supervisors in finance in the district, along with 3 managers and a div mgr. We have 1/3 the districts now then we did before and finance has now 1 div mgr, 2 mgrs and 6 supvs to cover a district that used to be 3 districts. That's a huge drop in mgmt. In my old district, there used to be 9 pkg div mgrs, now the same geographic area has 3.5 div mgrs (the .5 is because that div mgr covers what was a div mgr job in the old district plus another area that was a division in the district we merged with). We went from 60 plus district mgrs to 20 districts in the US.
We have seen reduction of well over 50% of mgmt in areas like this. We have had areas like BD where we added mgmt since now we have competition and much stiffer competition then we have had in the past.
FDX pays their drivers far less then what UPS drivers earn (esp if you include the benefit costs).
I'm not saying you don't earn the money. However, I am saying FDX has shown a lot of people will do a similar job for a lot less. To say we need more reduction in mgmt isn't realistic overall. (Although in some areas such as what you don't see, I see no reason why we even need a region group anymore, those jobs s/b eliminated or moved to corporate.
menotyou
bella amicizia
How many of you shop at LL Bean or Lands End PERSONALLY? Not your wife shopping for you, but you-yourself shopping? I do. I don't call up Lands End demanding free shipping. I wouldn't go shopping at Walmart for a canvas bag because Lands End didn't offer free shipping. I'd shop there no matter if they ship for free or for $8.95. It like someone who owns a Subaru. Unless they get a fantastical deal on a Volvo
bigsmile2: like me), they are most likely going to buy another Subaru. You shop there because you love their product.
bigsmile2: like me), they are most likely going to buy another Subaru. You shop there because you love their product.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I shop at Amazon primarily for the low shipping. I am not a member of Prime as I don't shop enough to justify the $79 fee. My last three orders have either had free or very cheap (<$5) shipping.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
How many of you shop at LL Bean or Lands End PERSONALLY? Not your wife shopping for you, but you-yourself shopping? I do. I don't call up Lands End demanding free shipping. I wouldn't go shopping at Walmart for a canvas bag because Lands End didn't offer free shipping. I'd shop there no matter if they ship for free or for $8.95. It like someone who owns a Subaru. Unless they get a fantastical deal on a Volvo
I shop via internet quite a bit (almost no brick & mortar) and I always do shop comparison based on price including shipping.
I almost always choose the one that is the least cost for shipping as a consequence.
I am an Amazon Prime member and my wife and I probably have over a hundred shipments per year.
I am a marketeer's nightmare as I am a very value-based buyer.
To me, it's crazy to pay more for shipping than I have to.
I abandon purchases all the time because of shipping costs.
I shop at three different grocery stores to get the best buys each week and I belong to Sams and Costco.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
amen to that! I am very value-conscious as well. I also switch between 2 different grocery stores depending on what items I need. People used to rag on me for being cheap and frugal. But now.... hahaha... jokes on them, as I did not have to foreclose on my house, I own my cars outright, and I have excellent credit.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
wait a minute here... You're telling me that its actually an option to shop for my own clothes. Hmmmm, my wife's never given me that option before!
menotyou
bella amicizia
Smart woman.
menotyou
bella amicizia
I am the queen of Sams. But, you do realize you are not the norm, right?
I used ll bean and Lands End as examples for a reason. They have a loyal following. They are a lot of what goes to the PO.
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