Taken out of service for not knowing safety dribble?

L

Localagitator

Guest
Commentary on Brown

Since I’ve started this newsletter and accompanying website, I have received much feedback from the rank-and-file offering their views and ideas, sharing their stories and problems in dealing with Brown. It is amazing how similar our problems are throughout this very large local. What follows is a compilation of problems, grievances and remedies ailing 804 members everyday at UPS.

The Safety Dance

Let’s face it, when management talks “safety”, it is only a corporate talking point. What they are really trying to “save” is the bottom line-profit over people. If they truly cared about our “safety”, management would say what needs to be said: SLOW DOWN! But you won’t be hearing that from this group.

Instead, what we do get is words and slogans and cute acronyms for us to memorize like a bunch of 3rd graders learning the multiplication table, as though “learning” these slogans will make our day safer.

To management, safety means insurance claims -case numbers- which equates to loss of profits. To us, safety is our knees, ankles, shoulders, backs, etc. There is one remedy, which we repeat daily and they ignore: Lighten our loads, let us do our jobs, and get off our backs!

Then of course they give us “safety week”, “safety month” and the ever so popular “Don’t report your injury til next week Fridays”. And let’s not forget all those wonderful “incentives” to work safe (breakfasts, gifts and other taxable items). In translation: “incentives” to subliminally stop or delay you from reporting injuries.

It’s a good corporate slogan used to demonstrate to Wall Street investors: Look at us, we’re the “safe” package delivery company…your investment is “safe” with UPS.

Maybe we should give incentives to management: Lighten our loads and create more loads, and you will receive less injuries. Instead of them asking us to do something (like memorize slogans) to help their safety numbers, it’s time they start “shouldering” the responsibility: Who increased the weight of packages? Who sends us out with abusive loads? Who doesn’t send us help? This problem is self-induced.

Furthermore, God forbid we do get injured. We get back to the building and they interrogate us as though we committed a crime!

Again, it is up to management to fix this obvious problem. Otherwise, all this safety talk is just that: TALK! Take the work off our trucks and onto your shoulders; keep your $ and “incentives”; stop breeding new hires for speed (see Big Brown, Belmont Stakes). Have some compassion about the repercussions to our bodies after 25 years of abusive loads!
 

tieguy

Banned
Commentary on Brown

Since I’ve started this newsletter and accompanying website, I have received much feedback from the rank-and-file offering their views and ideas, sharing their stories and problems in dealing with Brown. It is amazing how similar our problems are throughout this very large local. What follows is a compilation of problems, grievances and remedies ailing 804 members everyday at UPS.

The Safety Dance

Let’s face it, when management talks “safety”, it is only a corporate talking point. What they are really trying to “save” is the bottom line-profit over people. If they truly cared about our “safety”, management would say what needs to be said: SLOW DOWN! But you won’t be hearing that from this group.

Instead, what we do get is words and slogans and cute acronyms for us to memorize like a bunch of 3rd graders learning the multiplication table, as though “learning” these slogans will make our day safer.

To management, safety means insurance claims -case numbers- which equates to loss of profits. To us, safety is our knees, ankles, shoulders, backs, etc. There is one remedy, which we repeat daily and they ignore: Lighten our loads, let us do our jobs, and get off our backs!

Then of course they give us “safety week”, “safety month” and the ever so popular “Don’t report your injury til next week Fridays”. And let’s not forget all those wonderful “incentives” to work safe (breakfasts, gifts and other taxable items). In translation: “incentives” to subliminally stop or delay you from reporting injuries.

It’s a good corporate slogan used to demonstrate to Wall Street investors: Look at us, we’re the “safe” package delivery company…your investment is “safe” with UPS.

Maybe we should give incentives to management: Lighten our loads and create more loads, and you will receive less injuries. Instead of them asking us to do something (like memorize slogans) to help their safety numbers, it’s time they start “shouldering” the responsibility: Who increased the weight of packages? Who sends us out with abusive loads? Who doesn’t send us help? This problem is self-induced.

Furthermore, God forbid we do get injured. We get back to the building and they interrogate us as though we committed a crime!

Again, it is up to management to fix this obvious problem. Otherwise, all this safety talk is just that: TALK! Take the work off our trucks and onto your shoulders; keep your $ and “incentives”; stop breeding new hires for speed (see Big Brown, Belmont Stakes). Have some compassion about the repercussions to our bodies after 25 years of abusive loads!

Visit his web page and see the psychy of the union goon in full bloom. the person running this site has no value in his life no meaning other then disrupting legitimate businesses that supply hundreds of thousands of people their livelyhood.
 

Brownnblue

Well-Known Member
Visit his web page and see the psychy of the union goon in full bloom. the person running this site has no value in his life no meaning other then disrupting legitimate businesses that supply hundreds of thousands of people their livelyhood.

Comment on the post.
 
L

localagitator

Guest
Visit his web page and see the psychy of the union goon in full bloom. the person running this site has no value in his life no meaning other then disrupting legitimate businesses that supply hundreds of thousands of people their livelyhood.
Listen tieboy, if you went to my website you would have found that i also take our local to task when they screw up....Moreover, where do you get off diagnosing me as having "no value in his life"???? You have no clue who i am or what my values are....and from reading some of your posts NO CLUE ABOUT MOST THINGS...

I am "disrupting a legitimate business" ??? by what my freedom of speech to talk truth to power???? give me a break!!

Also it is my ( and thousands more) hard work that allows "tie guys " like yourself to live the sweet life that you do!! Stop being bitter for being in management! You made the choice to sell your soul to Brown.....now live with it!!
 

daiku

Member
Re: Taken out of service for not knowing saftey dribble?

RTS is not the best method on an issue. In CA you cannot look at any document that you have not signed. You can always write signed under duress next to your signature if you feel like you are forced, but unless you are being terminated, just signing that you were there is no big deal.....
Anyhow now You talk to your business agent and get him to ask the company to train you. OH yes and you can NEVER learn the stuff cause you just keep forgetting. It equals MORE MONEY for you. You are bound by that contract. Understand it and you will know what you must do and what you can do without. Tie Guy, I just look for your quotes.....Fired... Nice. Anyhow your local will get you another job which you will recieve pay for then when you come back to work you can all tell us what you spent all your back pay on.
Believe me it is guys like Tie guy who have NO clue as to what is in that contract. I cannot tell you how many times I have to explain the thing to my managers and always to the Supervisors.
Remember always though, that if you are asked to do something by a MGMT person, please do it, as long as your safety truly is not in jeopardy.

Call your business agent and get him/ her down to the center. We are lucky in Sacramento, our business agent is in the building nearly every morning. It cuts out the BS one might face.

The Contract is the EMPLOYEES rights for the most part. Read it over and over.
 

PTSup4-2long

New Member
2 supervisors terminated and 3 hourlies under termination at our center right now for not knowing the safety "dribble". Supervisors have to know 5 to 10 times as much and must be able to recite up to 3 full pages of junk from memory -- word for word. It's ridiculous. We sups are told regularly to discipline our employees for failure to pass the CSA questions. If I actually did that, I'd be loading 4 car positions every single day because HR can't hire new folks fast enough. I think general knowledge of the safety expectations is sufficient--with maybe an annual test.

Sometimes accidents happen. Maybe I'm too naive or trusting, but I don't think anyone really wants to be injured. Knowing or not knowing the safety questions makes no difference if you aren't actually putting them into practice.
 

tieguy

Banned
2 supervisors terminated and 3 hourlies under termination at our center right now for not knowing the safety "dribble". Supervisors have to know 5 to 10 times as much and must be able to recite up to 3 full pages of junk from memory -- word for word. It's ridiculous. We sups are told regularly to discipline our employees for failure to pass the CSA questions. If I actually did that, I'd be loading 4 car positions every single day because HR can't hire new folks fast enough. I think general knowledge of the safety expectations is sufficient--with maybe an annual test.

Sometimes accidents happen. Maybe I'm too naive or trusting, but I don't think anyone really wants to be injured. Knowing or not knowing the safety questions makes no difference if you aren't actually putting them into practice.

Ah your job is to make sure they know it and to make sure they practice it. If you don't preach and teach safety then you're doing your people and the company a disservice.
 

drewed

Shankman
Ah your job is to make sure they know it and to make sure they practice it. If you don't preach and teach safety then you're doing your people and the company a disservice.

Tie some people whether its a language barrier, too many hits to the head, or them eating paint chips as a kid cant (or refuse) to learn in.....We go over all the safety "dribble" everyday, im pretty sure maybe 4 can do it no prob, 4 can stumble through it and the rest are just GRR!!! haha
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I have a little laminated card with all the talking points, commentaries, acronyms and other safety babble printed on it. When my supervisor decides that I need to take a test, I just get that card out and recite all the drivel back to him in a monotone. He doesnt even care that I am cheating by reading it back to him; its like spoon feeding a baby, he just wants to listen to the all the words and slogans so he can check me off his list and wallow in that warm, fuzzy feeling of safety.
 

New Englander

Well-Known Member
Re: Taken out of service for not knowing saftey dribble?

Another Einstien asking brain numbing questions.

It does not bother me at all if you remember. I originally did not answer his question because he was not a registered user of the site.

if no one else jumps into the discussion the thread ends there.

But you in your effort to glorify your position here against the mangement poster then repeated the question for the scab and you tried to defend the scab.

Thus this thread continues where it would have died a quick death if not for you and others here who think I don't have a right to an opinion.

Tie...if it didn't bother you. You would have answered.

Though if your going to use intelligence as flame bait. Einstien is actually Einstein. Doing it your way just makes you look like a tool.
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: Taken out of service for not knowing saftey dribble?

Tie...if it didn't bother you. You would have answered.

Though if your going to use intelligence as flame bait. Einstien is actually Einstein. Doing it your way just makes you look like a tool.

Yep I'm a garden hose and you're all wet.:happy-very:
 

tieguy

Banned
I have a little laminated card with all the talking points, commentaries, acronyms and other safety babble printed on it. When my supervisor decides that I need to take a test, I just get that card out and recite all the drivel back to him in a monotone. He doesnt even care that I am cheating by reading it back to him; its like spoon feeding a baby, he just wants to listen to the all the words and slogans so he can check me off his list and wallow in that warm, fuzzy feeling of safety.

if it works for you then more power to ya.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Re: Taken out of service for not knowing saftey dribble?

Failure to regurgitate acronyms is not a terminable offense. Nowhere in the contract does it state that memorization of the 10-point commentary is a condition of employment.
Your supervisor would have absolutely no grounds for taking you out of service. If he did, you could file a grievance for all wages lost. You certainly cannot be suspended from duty without first having been issued a warning letter. Your sup is bluffing....he is under pressure from above to look good on his audit. That is his problem, and that's why he's making the big bucks. Look at it this way...if he is actually stupid enough to suspend you for not repeating a commetary verbatim, you will get a paid day off without having to burn an optional. If it were me, I would go ahead take him up on his little offer. You will find that its all talk and no action.

Old thread/topic bump, I know.

Question: If this (the above, particularly first paragraph) is true, then why was I told I could not qualify to drive routes full-time if I cannot recite them word for word, including details?
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Taken out of service for not knowing saftey dribble?

Old thread/topic bump, I know.

Question: If this (the above, particularly first paragraph) is true, then why was I told I could not qualify to drive routes full-time if I cannot recite them word for word, including details?

The company does have some leeway during the 30-day probationary period to determine who is qualified to be promoted to full time driving.

However...I find it odd that they would place stricter requirements on a full time driver vs a part time one. A part-time driver must still meet the same qualifications as a full time one in terms of DOT regs and safe driving and work methods.

The person who told you that you must recite the safety drivel in order to be a "full time" driver might be lying to you in order to motivate you to learn it. The only thing that matters to him is getting a good score on the next audit.

What the company cannot do...is to just make up a bunch of silly word games and then threaten seniority drivers with disciplinary action for failing to get a perfect score on them.
 
M

Mike23

Guest
Apparently in our new depot (around here we call them depots) we're going to be smashed by the biggest wave of safety people you can imagine. In our current state (at our soon to be old depot) we have a fire hose that's NEVER unblocked, I've witnessed the trailer unload guy walking beside the truck WHILE it was in reverse and popping the side doors and our preload work on (literally) planks on a metal frame that are sagging in the middle because they're rotting out. We also have to walk through a busy parking lot where UPS vehicles are driving past in the middle of the night WITHOUT safety vests (against the law here).

Those are just some of the more mild offenses. If reciting verbal drivel is that important to our safety, maybe they could also fix these few little problems?

Ok, it's not complete drivel. I'll admit that they ARE safe things that need to be worked upon. However, my training consisted of 'pssst, here's the answer to #1' (our HR guy, nice guy though). This was because UPS was so desperate to put bodies in vehicles at the time in my area. How am I expected to learn these things when I wasn't trained on them properly in the first place? We do have 'safety training' now which is once a week to try to remedy this, but who can honestly say, with a straight face, that UPS was and is looking after my safety first and production second?

To expect drivers to have all this stuff memorised when a lot of it didn't exist WHEN they were hired is a good idea but it should be done during company time, on the clock. Not off the clock and at home. IMHO, if your stewards are worth 2 cents, I'm pretty sure all suspensions or terms could easily be overturned since when most people here were hired this stuff didn't exist?...Correct me if I'm wrong in my rookiness here?
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
I believe Keter is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberty Mutual Insurance Company, and they contract to do OSHA audits at various businesses that they insure.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
They randomly took me in the office one morning as a friend/T driver this Spring.
Had to write thier test (10 commentary) and the Big Picture questions.
What is it ? 25 or 30 questions ?

I don't know what would have happened if I would have failed it, but Sup said I was well over 75%, and can go on with my day.

Little crap I missed : like be prepared for the unexpected, instead of expect the unexpected.

And one question, I just couldn't remember, but got most of the others dead on.

Still, I wonder why they had to do that. (re-test me, that is).
Maybe they just wanted to cut another run that day, and it wasn't me ?
 
We have had several drivers taken "out of service" for not knowing this tripe. It's always after an accident or injury. They still come in and work four hours on the preload and four hours on the local sort, until they can recite it, then they are back on the road. They get their eight hours, but they are, "out of service." The union doesn't fight this.
By the way, interesting how UPS can afford to pay these Keter folks God knows how many millions every year to stumble around the building asking questions, but they can't afford a BBQ.
 
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