Taken out of service.....

[Mugarolla]

Please don't confuse mug with facts. He and upstart's world collapses when challenged.

Let me ask all you Brown Cafers. Well, at least all the drivers. No offense BB58.

If management insructs you to be at Joe Blows at 10:15, what time are you going to get there? You do not have to answer 10 point. We all saw what time you said you would get there. Anybody else?

 

[OLDMAN3]

How can they "force" you to come in before your start time? No sir... I will be there at my scheduled start time.
THEN YOU SAY:
By the way, your exception listed about not starting before your start time is not an exception in the Central.

Article 12
Section 2

Any employee may be required to report to work before his/her regular starting time and in such event, he/she shall be paid at the rate of one and one-half (1 1/2) times his/her regular straight-time hourly rate for all hours worked before his/her regular starting time in addition to the employee’s regular guarantee.

I find your posts quite confusing and contradictory at times.

 

[OLDMAN3]

Let me ask all you Brown Cafers. Well, at least all the drivers. No offense BB58.

If management insructs you to be at Joe Blows at 10:15, what time are you going to get there? You do not have to answer 10 point. We all saw what time you said you would get there. Anybody else?

Depends if it conflicts with other management directives. For example, if going out of my way to get there by 10:15 would make other NDA late, I would not do it. Otherwise, they pay me by the hour, so no reason not to do it.

 

[OLDMAN3]

The issue of scanning NDA before a security checkpoint conflicting with standardized UPS DIAD training makes me realize I should be taking pics of all DIAD training screens, in addition to all the texts received. We had an instance of DIAD training being directly contradicted 3 days later in a morning PCM.

 

[Mugarolla]

I find your posts quite confusing and contradictory at times.

There are ways out of being forced to come in early. I have to get my kids ready for school. I have to take my kids to school. Etc. Management will usually not press the issue if you have a good reason. Most early starts are for training. They will usually work with you and find a time for you to come in early.

I had actually forgot about article 12 section 2 when I first responded to your post. I kinda meant are they going to physically come to your house and get you out of bed?

You could technically get a warning letter for refusing to come in early, but if you can't due to circunstances, the union will back you 100%.

 

[Mugarolla]

Depends if it conflicts with other management directives. For example, if going out of my way to get there by 10:15 would make other NDA late, I would not do it. Otherwise, they pay me by the hour, so no reason not to do it.

OK. Let me put it this way. They give you only enough airs to get them off and be at Joe Blows by 10:15. Barring any unforeseen circumstance like traffic, accidents, breakdowns etc, what time will you get at Joe Blows, or plan on being at Joe Blows?

 

[Mugarolla]

OK. Let me put it this way. They give you only enough airs to get them off and be at Joe Blows by 10:15. Barring any unforeseen circumstance like traffic, accidents, breakdowns etc, what time will you get at Joe Blows, or plan on being at Joe Blows?

To further clarify, would you deliver some ground on your way to Joe Blows and get there at 10:28 even though management instructed you to be there at 10:15? Seems like 10 point would by his responses.

 

[OLDMAN3]

There are ways out of being forced to come in early. I have to get my kids ready for school. I have to take my kids to school. Etc. Management will usually not press the issue if you have a good reason. Most early starts are for training. They will usually work with you and find a time for you to come in early.

I had actually forgot about article 12 section 2 when I first responded to your post. I kinda meant are they going to physically come to your house and get you out of bed?

You could technically get a warning letter for refusing to come in early, but if you can't due to circumstances, the union will back you 100%.

They routinely tell us to come in early via text less than 24 hours in advance. I will start early only if I feel like doing so. Perhaps it is past practice, but around here you can refuse, without explanation or even notifying them, because of insufficient notice of the start time change.

 

[OLDMAN3]

OK. Let me put it this way. They give you only enough airs to get them off and be at Joe Blows by 10:15. Barring any unforeseen circumstance like traffic, accidents, breakdowns etc, what time will you get at Joe Blows, or plan on being at Joe Blows?

10:15, but I doubt they would discipline if you got there consistently by 10:30. I know plenty of drivers who blow off management's directives if they find them cumbersome, not a game I feel is worth playing. Years back we had a directive from the District Manager to deliver all NDA by 10:15 because late air was the hot topic. I would say 1/3 of the drivers tried to make it work (including me) for about a month. But hey, I follow ORION as well, even though it makes no sense. But I don't work past 8 on an 8 hr request, I don't go back out, and I don't work 3 nine-fives without an extra check.

 

[Mugarolla]

RDR is a rule subject to corporate discretion MASKED by your Buddy center manager.

What is the difference between scanning the air at the security gate and then driving to the dock once cleared and scanning the air in the parking lot as you walk. in both cases you are on the customers property. What is the difference between walking 14 floors and driving 500 feet?

Who said this...We just settled a grievance and the resolution was that if you're even on the business's parking lot and there's 14 floors to go up you can scan the pkgs "on the walk to" that stop even if it's LATE when you get to the office on the 14th floor. Done deal. Settled.

 

[Mugarolla]

10:15, but I doubt they would discipline if you got there consistently by 10:30. I know plenty of drivers who blow off management's directives if they find them cumbersome, not a game I feel is worth playing. Years back we had a directive from the District Manager to deliver all NDA by 10:15 because late air was the hot topic. I would say 1/3 of the drivers tried to make it work (including me) for about a month. But hey, I follow ORION as well, even though it makes no sense. But I don't work past 8 on an 8 hr request, I don't go back out, and I don't work 3 nine-fives without an extra check.

OK. But what if Joe Blows was a national account and shipped thousands of packages. They wanted their delivery by 10:15 because they go on break at 10:30. Management agreed to the 10:15 delivery to keep their business. Do you not think that management would discipline you if you never got there until 10:28?

Pick your battles. Not saying that you will get a failure to follow warning letter, but why push it. It is possible that they will give you one. I don't know why people always want to push the issue. Work as directed, and when it doesn't work, management only has themselves to blame. The union may not be able to save you if management really wants to push the issue. If told to be at Joe Blows at 10:15, be at Joe Blows at 10:15.

 

[oldngray]

10:15, but I doubt they would discipline if you got there consistently by 10:30. I know plenty of drivers who blow off management's directives if they find them cumbersome, not a game I feel is worth playing. Years back we had a directive from the District Manager to deliver all NDA by 10:15 because late air was the hot topic. I would say 1/3 of the drivers tried to make it work (including me) for about a month. But hey, I follow ORION as well, even though it makes no sense. But I don't work past 8 on an 8 hr request, I don't go back out, and I don't work 3 nine-fives without an extra check.

I remember that unofficial 10:15 commit time. We were told to "try" to get NDA off by 10:15. I just ignored it and only worried about getting them off by 10:30.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The issue of scanning NDA before a security checkpoint conflicting with standardized UPS DIAD training makes me realize I should be taking pics of all DIAD training screens, in addition to all the texts received. We had an instance of DIAD training being directly contradicted 3 days later in a morning PCM.

Are you talking about the one where we were told to sheet damages as missed?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

They routinely tell us to come in early via text less than 24 hours in advance. I will start early only if I feel like doing so. Perhaps it is past practice, but around here you can refuse, without explanation or even notifying them, because of insufficient notice of the start time change.

Start time changes of less than an hour require only 24 hours notice----those of one hour or more require 3 days notice.

 

[Bubblehead]

Start time changes of less than an hour require only 24 hours notice----those of one hour or more require 3 days notice.

Dave, again, we all operate under different supplements and addendums.
The language on this subject varies greatly depending on where you work.

 

[Mugarolla]

I remember that unofficial 10:15 commit time. We were told to "try" to get NDA off by 10:15. I just ignored it and only worried about getting them off by 10:30.

I've done that too when they said "try to be there." But when they said "be there" by 10:15, I was there by 10:15

 

[sortaisle]

Try to make a stop with a security gate like that your last air stop. I had one like that who got NDA every day so it was always my last air stop. It was also a place where some genius decided receiving people started at 4pm so I had to use their phone to call a guy to come sign every day. I would unload and scan everything for that stop while I was waiting.

This is what the security section is for under late air. If you're at a security gate waiting for clearance and you scan your air late it is a security reason. They can see what time you showed up at the gate on their little video game system and can collaborate.

 

[barnyard]

This is what the security section is for under late air. If you're at a security gate waiting for clearance and you scan your air late it is a security reason. They can see what time you showed up at the gate on their little video game system and can collaborate.

Only if it is an unsuspected or unusual security check. It said specifically in the diad training that if the security point is there every day, that is not a valid reason for being late.

 

[Rainman]

OK. But what if Joe Blows was a national account and shipped thousands of packages. They wanted their delivery by 10:15 because they go on break at 10:30. Management agreed to the 10:15 delivery to keep their business. Do you not think that management would discipline you if you never got there until 10:28?

Pick your battles. Not saying that you will get a failure to follow warning letter, but why push it. It is possible that they will give you one. I don't know why people always want to push the issue. Work as directed, and when it doesn't work, management only has themselves to blame. The union may not be able to save you if management really wants to push the issue. If told to be at Joe Blows at 10:15, be at Joe Blows at 10:15.

Too many dumb azzes try to push an issue just because they can. They screw up and get what they deserve. Them they whine about management being unfair. Like you said, work as directed when the orders don't conflict with known company policies. Always CYA, don't pick fights unnecessarily, especially about stupid stuff. That way when you do stand up and raise hail, they are more apt to listen and less likely to retaliate. A lot depends on how you approach a situation. If you go in with a attitude, you'll get one back. If you treat the situation in a professional manner, you'll be more likely to get a professional response.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.

 

[10 point]

What is the difference between scanning the air at the security gate and then driving to the dock once cleared and scanning the air in the parking lot as you walk. in both cases you are on the customers property. What is the difference between walking 14 floors and driving 500 feet?

Who said this...We just settled a grievance and the resolution was that if you're even on the business's parking lot and there's 14 floors to go up you can scan the pkgs "on the walk to" that stop even if it's LATE when you get to the office on the 14th floor. Done deal. Settled.

Evidently I have to explain it to you again.

The difference is walking vs driving. It's RDR not RWR. If you want to disobey management's orders go ahead. But don't tell other drivers to on here and have them get fired.

Does that sound familiar?

Management can tell you to be at a certain location by 10:15 and you should be there you can lawfully get there then. That's not my point. But if you want to make a mountain from a molehill here goes:

First response with a witness...
"I'll be there at 10:15 but you're going to have to take these air and SSI stops off me because they may be late".

Second issue...
Forcing me to drive over the speed limit to make a commit time because of logistics problems, traffic patterns, weather issues, etc will not happen so take me out of service. I can use a paid vacation.

Force me to cut my pretrip short to make a bogus commit time ( adding also since their preload goes down late every day) and Art 18, 37 plus a phone call to the local area DOT Enforcement agency will get their minds right.

Work as directed? That's what we do but it costs the company about every day they blindly force the issue without considering all the factors.

We have an account that gives us four trailer loads a day. They're SSI with a 15 min swing allotment. They tell the driver to be there at X time and the driver says "I'll do my best". That's all anyone can do and they know it. There's ramifications for them pushing the logistics button. It's Never challenged. They would predominantly lose providing the driver is working by the book.