TeamCare upgraded

[The Other Side]

Wait till you get the DVD in the mail. I think you will understand more at that time. You will still have better medical benefits than I do. You won't have co pays and your medical will still be the same as it is now except for a deductible. Our benifits were the ones that were enhanced. I said all alone that the benifits would be upgraded for us. As far as you are concerned I believe your coverage as far as the dollar amount stay the same in The enhanced c6.

Im not going to get into a debate with you on this forum friend as its a strained Internet friendship of late. All the best to you and your family.

This "deal" had nothing to do with the company, other than the company telling the Teamsters to "do whatever you have to do to settle this contract".

The IBT knows this, through the message of the members voices with a NO VOTE and the maintaining of that NO VOTE feeling going into this second round of balloting.

To keep it simple, let me propose this explanation.

First and foremost, the officers of the southwest are ALL in jeopardy with the T.A. as first presented. The IBT knows this now and it has to act to attempt to protect them. NONE of the officers in the southwest were involved in the Teamcare upgrades, yet, come next week, they will be attempting to take partial credit for it. This is strickly a political move to save their asshes..

Second, the IBT knew that those of us in the southwest and local 177 would shoot down the riders and supplementals a second and third time hands down no matter what nonsense was coming out of the IBT's mouth.

That being said, a calculation had to be made and it was. POSTPONE the eventual REDUCTION in our health care benefits for 5 years until the next round of negotiations and THEN, insurance will be off the table and the trustees of the CSHW can do what they like to the benefit levels without interference from the company, the members or the locals.

That little sentence in the MOU grants the trustees final authority to make changes "at will" without approval from the membership.

All that happened is what I said would happen 4 weeks ago. They would give us our same benefit levels for the duration of this contract and get their "foot" in the door, and next time, in 2018 we will not be able to stop them from doing anything.

Thats why I said, on the surface, everything looks identical to what we have now, give or take a few minor differences, and thats ok, but in 5 years, we are going to be helpless in stopping the CSHW from reducing coverage and increasing costs.

Given this scenario, its all the more reason to remove all the players involved in this mess from the start. From Hoffa to Hall to the local officers of the southwest. Get rid of them all and put in people who will stand up for the members and protect these benefits.

Its clear, from the jump, that the locals in the southwest were on board to take away our benefits as we know them and replace them with crap. Now, out of nowhere, they match our current plan almost to the dime and "TABLE" the bigger fight for 5 years ( hopefully)

who knows, a year from now, or 2 years from now, the CSHW may take a vote and reduce our benefit levels with the authority granted to them in the MOU and we will be UNABLE to stop them.

We can cry and complain, but it will fall on deaf ears. The IBT will simply say that "YOU VOTED FOR THE MASTER AGREEMENT and it was in there".."didnt you read it before you voted?"

This upgrade also has nothing to do with the "carve out" and as I said before, they were never going to be able to create a plan of their own and we would get dumped into the C6.

I look at this two ways. First, its great that they changed gears and matched our plan, for that, maybe we should authorize this contract, but, on the other hand, there are NO GUARANTEES that these benefit levels will remain the same for the full 5 years and maybe we should vote NO and force them to remove the MOU and REWRITE it to include "employee benefit levels shall remain the same for the duration of this contract".

Lastly, Its still unclear on whether or not current C6 members will be upgraded to these new benefit levels and thats a question among other questions I have sent to TEAMCARE to be answered.

More later on that,

Peace

TOS

 

[RealPerson]

I haven't had time to do a line-by-line comparison, but this appears to be nearly the exact same level of benefits we had under the company plan; co-pays remain at $10, there's actually an increase on the frames allowance from $60/year on vision, and no deductibles on dental.

The only negative changes appear to be the $100/$200 single/family deductible the final year of the contract instead of a phased in deductible (this will catch a lot of people by surprise, mark my words) and the 80% cap on "out of network" labs and scans; a former steward just pointed this out to me via e-mail. This is really going to sting for folks that need this type of work done that don't have US Imaging or Quest Labs in their market -- MRI's and the such aren't cheap.

The "changes" to retiree health insurance ($200/$400 single/family premiums per month) were the exact same prices under CS H&W before contract negotiations began.

Plan Document: https://myteamcare.org/ups/newMembers/docs/TeamCarePlanforNewUPSMembers.pdf

It's no coindcidence that IBT also rolled out UPS Contract Facts recently, too.

I think it also still has the max out of pocket of $1000 / $2000 per year. On my phone so, not 100% sure

 

[RealPerson]

I think FT should have the Same benefits as part timers.

Teamcare said it had 100k ups members, we are adding 150K more and largest raise to the IBT Ever and the plans didnt get better for CURRENT members????

 

[The Other Side]

Dont any of you find it odd that Teamcare announced this before the IBT or the locals? Seems a little like the cart before the ox.

Peace

TOS

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

This "deal" had nothing to do with the company, other than the company telling the Teamsters to "do whatever you have to do to settle this contract".

The IBT knows this, through the message of the members voices with a NO VOTE and the maintaining of that NO VOTE feeling going into this second round of balloting.

To keep it simple, let me propose this explanation.

First and foremost, the officers of the southwest are ALL in jeopardy with the T.A. as first presented. The IBT knows this now and it has to act to attempt to protect them. NONE of the officers in the southwest were involved in the Teamcare upgrades, yet, come next week, they will be attempting to take partial credit for it. This is strickly a political move to save their asshes..

Second, the IBT knew that those of us in the southwest and local 177 would shoot down the riders and supplementals a second and third time hands down no matter what nonsense was coming out of the IBT's mouth.

That being said, a calculation had to be made and it was. POSTPONE the eventual REDUCTION in our health care benefits for 5 years until the next round of negotiations and THEN, insurance will be off the table and the trustees of the CSHW can do what they like to the benefit levels without interference from the company, the members or the locals.

That little sentence in the MOU grants the trustees final authority to make changes "at will" without approval from the membership.

All that happened is what I said would happen 4 weeks ago. They would give us our same benefit levels for the duration of this contract and get their "foot" in the door, and next time, in 2018 we will not be able to stop them from doing anything.

Thats why I said, on the surface, everything looks identical to what we have now, give or take a few minor differences, and thats ok, but in 5 years, we are going to be helpless in stopping the CSHW from reducing coverage and increasing costs.

Given this scenario, its all the more reason to remove all the players involved in this mess from the start. From Hoffa to Hall to the local officers of the southwest. Get rid of them all and put in people who will stand up for the members and protect these benefits.

Its clear, from the jump, that the locals in the southwest were on board to take away our benefits as we know them and replace them with crap. Now, out of nowhere, they match our current plan almost to the dime and "TABLE" the bigger fight for 5 years ( hopefully)

who knows, a year from now, or 2 years from now, the CSHW may take a vote and reduce our benefit levels with the authority granted to them in the MOU and we will be UNABLE to stop them.

We can cry and complain, but it will fall on deaf ears. The IBT will simply say that "YOU VOTED FOR THE MASTER AGREEMENT and it was in there".."didnt you read it before you voted?"

This upgrade also has nothing to do with the "carve out" and as I said before, they were never going to be able to create a plan of their own and we would get dumped into the C6.

I look at this two ways. First, its great that they changed gears and matched our plan, for that, maybe we should authorize this contract, but, on the other hand, there are NO GUARANTEES that these benefit levels will remain the same for the full 5 years and maybe we should vote NO and force them to remove the MOU and REWRITE it to include "employee benefit levels shall remain the same for the duration of this contract".

Lastly, Its still unclear on whether or not current C6 members will be upgraded to these new benefit levels and thats a question among other questions I have sent to TEAMCARE to be answered.

More later on that,

Peace

TOS

I'm voting NO. There is no guarantee these will remain the same.

So what happened to the Southwest "carve-out." Is it no longer in play?

Where's Andy M and all the principal officers in the Southwest?

 

[no_map_needed]

Yup TOS is spot on. If were voting on healthcare we should at least have the right to vote if any changes are necessary down the line.

 

[slantnosechevy]

Obamacare may be voted out by the end of this contract. Nevertheless, it may be too late to fix the damage this is going to do to an already fragile economy. 53% of the U.S. population is on some sort of Gov't assistance now. In 5 years technology will eliminate a projected 5-7 million more FT living wage jobs.

 

[brostalss]

I still say Blah to this crap. Once The Teamsters have control of our healthcare, it's never gonna be on the bargaining table again. They got it and they'll keep it. After the five years don't expect benefits to be anywhere near as good. A lot of smoke and mirrors hoping some will read we have exact same benefits and not read the fine print.

UPS and Teamsters should have offered tiered plans.
A) Top of the line healthcare, pick all your own Doctors but you pay out of pocket weekly.
B) Mid grade, not the best but works, pick some of your Doctors and maybe a little out of pocket.
C) You are insured but that's about it. No out of pocket but must stay in network of doctors.

How hard is that? Let the employees choose what coverage they want.

 

[stink219]

?????
I mean...I love you guys, but weren't you guys the ones that were geeking the initial vote in the YES direction.
Then weren't you the guys that said health care was a done deal when the National Master passed and that health care couldn't be revisited?
Now, since the pot has been sweetened, you claim I told you so?

407, am I not inline to receive a better health care package than you, although we work in the same region?
Why doesn't that infuriate you?

P.S. I have come far from reading all the crap posted on this board, so maybe I missed something. Thankfully

Ask King of Chester what I told him 2 months ago. The Union had till November to find an equal plan, not an exact plan. Teamcare is and was a done deal. We didn't mean things couldn't improve. Hell, my bennies get better every other month. We just meant they wouldn't go back in UPS's hands. So sorry, but we told you so.
:beersmiley1:

 

[stink219]

I still say Blah to this crap. Once The Teamsters have control of our healthcare, it's never gonna be on the bargaining table again. They got it and they'll keep it. After the five years don't expect benefits to be anywhere near as good. A lot of smoke and mirrors hoping some will read we have exact same benefits and not read the fine print.

UPS and Teamsters should have offered tiered plans.
A) Top of the line healthcare, pick all your own Doctors but you pay out of pocket weekly.
B) Mid grade, not the best but works, pick some of your Doctors and maybe a little out of pocket.
C) You are insured but that's about it. No out of pocket but must stay in network of doctors.

How hard is that? Let the employees choose what coverage they want.

I've had union run bennies forever. It has only improved. You'll be fine.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Ask King of Chester what I told him 2 months ago. The Union had till November to find an equal plan, not an exact plan. Teamcare is and was a done deal. We didn't mean things couldn't improve. Hell, my bennies get better every other month. We just meant they wouldn't go back in UPS's hands. So sorry, but we told you so.
:beersmiley1:

Yep

 

[Bubblehead]

Ask King of Chester what I told him 2 months ago. The Union had till November to find an equal plan, not an exact plan. Teamcare is and was a done deal. We didn't mean things couldn't improve. Hell, my bennies get better every other month. We just meant they wouldn't go back in UPS's hands. So sorry, but we told you so. :beersmiley1:

All thanks to the NO VOTERS.
Had we toed the line, we would be making due with less.
Congrats on your prophecy.
Cheers!!!

Perhaps we should VOTE NO again and see what else they were holding back from us?

 

[InsideUPS]

That being said, a calculation had to be made and it was. POSTPONE the eventual REDUCTION in our health care benefits for 5 years until the next round of negotiations and THEN, insurance will be off the table and the trustees of the CSHW can do what they like to the benefit levels without interference from the company, the members or the locals.

That little sentence in the MOU grants the trustees final authority to make changes "at will" without approval from the membership.

All that happened is what I said would happen 4 weeks ago. They would give us our same benefit levels for the duration of this contract and get their "foot" in the door, and next time, in 2018 we will not be able to stop them from doing anything.

Thats why I said, on the surface, everything looks identical to what we have now, give or take a few minor differences, and thats ok, but in 5 years, we are going to be helpless in stopping the CSHW from reducing coverage and increasing costs.

Given this scenario, its all the more reason to remove all the players involved in this mess from the start. From Hoffa to Hall to the local officers of the southwest. Get rid of them all and put in people who will stand up for the members and protect these benefits.

Its clear, from the jump, that the locals in the southwest were on board to take away our benefits as we know them and replace them with crap. Now, out of nowhere, they match our current plan almost to the dime and "TABLE" the bigger fight for 5 years ( hopefully)

who knows, a year from now, or 2 years from now, the CSHW may take a vote and reduce our benefit levels with the authority granted to them in the MOU and we will be UNABLE to stop them.

I look at this two ways. First, its great that they changed gears and matched our plan, for that, maybe we should authorize this contract, but, on the other hand, there are NO GUARANTEES that these benefit levels will remain the same for the full 5 years and maybe we should vote NO and force them to remove the MOU and REWRITE it to include "employee benefit levels shall remain the same for the duration of this contract".

Lastly, Its still unclear on whether or not current C6 members will be upgraded to these new benefit levels and thats a question among other questions I have sent to TEAMCARE to be answered.

Peace

TOS

TOS, thank you for your independent thought and input. I believe it is important to know that our current UPS health plan is not without language that allows the company to amend or terminate the plan.

For example, page 73 states, "Plan Amendment or Termination: UPS has establised this plan with the expectation that it will be continued indefinitely. Nevertheless, UPS reserves the right to amend or terminate the plan at any time by a written resolution of the Board of Directors, which is duly adopted. No amendment or termination of this plan will reduce or eliminate benefits for claims incurred prior to the effective date of the amendment or termination."

Personally TOS, I don't trust anyone with my livelihood whether it be the IBT, UPS, our Government, etc.. I was raised in an accounting business in which I was able to experience a wide range of business activities and government action (IRS) monitoring those activities. Whether we put our faith in the hands of the Union or UPS, we are going to be at their mercy for the legalese that is written into every insurance related document. The best defense we have as an individual is through collective bargaining regardless of how much we may mistrust it at times.

We are dealing with a VERY different company (UPS) than ever before. I believe that the recent enhancements in our healthcare represent a victory for labor in a time when big business generally rules the landscape. The NO Vote from individual members like you and I obviously still has some power in getting our message across. I have to believe that IF in 5 years time the health care benefits are on the "table", a NO vote will hold similar power from it's members.

Although I will benefit from this contract in many ways, I also share your concern for existing C6 members whose benefits will not be enhanced to match new members. I look at this as a divisive issue which is something I believe is detrimental to the long term existence of the IBT.

Peace Y - from a true member of the "Hippie Generation"

​

 

[PiedmontSteward]

TOS, thank you for your independent thought and input. I believe it is important to know that our current UPS health plan is not without language that allows the company to amend or terminate the plan.

For example, page 73 states, "Plan Amendment or Termination: UPS has establised this plan with the expectation that it will be continued indefinitely. Nevertheless, UPS reserves the right to amend or terminate the plan at any time by a written resolution of the Board of Directors, which is duly adopted. No amendment or termination of this plan will reduce or eliminate benefits for claims incurred prior to the effective date of the amendment or termination."

Personally TOS, I don't trust anyone with my livelihood whether it be the IBT, UPS, our Government, etc.. I was raised in an accounting business in which I was able to experience a wide range of business activities and government action (IRS) monitoring those activities. Whether we put our faith in the hands of the Union or UPS, we are going to be at their mercy for the legalese that is written into every insurance related document. The best defense we have as an individual is through collective bargaining regardless of how much we may mistrust it at times.

We are dealing with a VERY different company (UPS) than ever before. I believe that the recent enhancements in our healthcare represent a victory for labor in a time when big business generally rules the landscape. The NO Vote from individual members like you and I obviously still has some power in getting our message across. I have to believe that IF in 5 years time the health care benefits are on the "table", a NO vote will hold similar power from it's members.

Although I will benefit from this contract in many ways, I also share your concern for existing C6 members whose benefits will not be enhanced to match new members. I look at this as a divisive issue which is something I believe is detrimental to the long term existence of the IBT.

Peace Y - from a true member of the "Hippie Generation"

​

I have mixed feelings regarding our health care going into a Taft Hartley plan -- you're absolutely right that the plan trustees, without negotiating or otherwise consulting the members, can reduce our benefits. However, this is boilerplate language in probably every Taft Hartley health and welfare plan across the country and is essential to the long-term survivability of the plans in case of catastrophic events -- mass layoffs across multiple industries due to economic down-turns, etc. -- that could lead to the plan becoming insolvent. However, I feel this gives us better leverage in several areas:

In case of a future strike, the union could continue our health insurance without the individual locals or IBT being required to divert money from the strike fund to cover COBRA payments as almost occurred in 1997. TeamCare already has 18 months in reserves -- I hope this doubles with the addition to 140,000 new Teamsters being enrolled in the plan. That is an enormous influx of revenue, especially considering many of the covered part-timers that UPS contributes money on behalf of rarely utilize their insurance.

Hopefully, it takes health care "off the table" for future contracts. In my opinion, it's a lot easier to hold the line on gross H&W contributions instead of a myriad of levels of benefits.

On the flip side, however, I believe that it's a mistake that existing C6 members will not receive the same level of benefits as the "new" TeamCare members. While a full-timer can afford to pay more out of pocket, they should have the same level of benefits as a part-timer especially if we're in the same plan.

You're absolutely right about UPS becoming a very different company since going public -- look what they're doing to their managers' health insurance right now. Additionally, UPS has made it clear they will want a two-tier wage system in the future; my local president mentioned that UPS tried to raise hell about retiree health insurance in the final hours of the '08-'13 negotiations and this was ample foreshadowing of their attempts in '13-'18 negotiations to go after us on health care. They tried to slip in a two-tier system in the final hours this time around and I think this will be the major issue going forward in the future. UPS isn't satisfied with the de facto two-tiered wage system we have now and many, many companies are jamming this down the throats of their unionized workforces - Crystal Sugar, GM, Verizon, AT&T, Cooper Tire, and many more - either via ending pension contributions (in lieu of 401k contributions) for new hires or a two-tiered wage system.

 

[The Other Side]

Ask King of Chester what I told him 2 months ago. The Union had till November to find an equal plan, not an exact plan. Teamcare is and was a done deal. We didn't mean things couldn't improve. Hell, my bennies get better every other month. We just meant they wouldn't go back in UPS's hands. So sorry, but we told you so.
:beersmiley1:

You have been wrong on every issue so far this contract season its not even funny anymore. The "union" did not have until november to find a better or equal plan. That was NEVER the case.

Only the Southwest had until november to find a plan that they could manage themselves and implement that plan but it had to MATCH the benefit levels of the C6 at that time ( august 1st). When that failed to pass here in the southwest, the IBT began to adjust the C6 (enhance) to try to convince us to accept that P.O.S. as written. There was NEVER a plan to get better than it was presented.

This was a money "skim" by the IBT.

Take our $19,000 allocation of insurance contributions (each member) and replace that with a $12,000 plan and "skim" off 7K and shore up the CSH&W's underfunding.

The burden of this reduction in plan benefits fell onto the members in the form of backdoor costs, while attempting to sell it to us as a "similiar" plan.

This scheme has fallen short thanks to the brothers and sisters who stood up and voted this contract DOWN.

If you want to suggest to the board that the IBT all along was going to do this anyways for those of us in the West and Southwest, then you are smoking crack at best.

It was the members who pressured the IBT to do the right thing and maintain our current benefit levels with the money they were going to recieve from UPS and NOT the IBT and the trustees just being generous.

The IBT made a "deal" with the company long before this contract was negotiated and they had to make it work even if it meant "delaying" their plans for benefit reductions for another 5 years (or less).

If anyone thinks this healthcare fight is over, believe me, in 5 years we will fight it again, only this time, we will have to face off with the IBT itself and not UPS.

The IBT itself has to change. If by change that means removing all the current players involved this time in order to eliminate the possiblility of a repeat performance in 2018 then sobeit.

I can only speak for my local when I say our members are going to do just that to our officers. We no longer trust them. The lack of communication, the lies, the mis representations is enough for us to seek change.

In 2018, "we" need leaders who will protect us, and not fight against us forcing us to strike back.

These changes to Teamcare have to stand the test of time. And if in less than 5 years those benefit levels change, then we know the IBT intended on screwing us from the jump.

Making a change of 4 years without deductibles covers ALL the election cycles of the locals most vulnerable, and this is just political strategy.

Stink, you have no idea what you are talking about most of the time, and by no means did YOU have this figured out. You can pat yourself on the back all you like, but while you have your own hand on your back, you should really be pulling yourself out of the room.

Peace

TOS

 

[CajunInTexas]

My (per my wife) one problem (still after the changes) is that US Imaging does not exist in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Other than that she says its acceptable.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

IBT just sent out a press release on the TeamCare improvements and announced the next round of voting on seven supplements at: TeamCare Improvements Announced for UPS Teamsters | International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT)

Members can go to www.myteamcare.org or www.upscontractfacts.com for more information. Additionally, DVD information packets are being mailed to member's homes this week. Ballots for the Central Region, Ohio, Michigan, Local 243, Metro Philly, Local 623 and Western Pennsylvania supplements and riders will be mailed on September 18.

 

[Inthegame]

Thank you InsideUPS for posting the UPS Plan Amendment for Termination notice. Too many don't understand the very language they fear already exists in UPS's plan. It is a necessary component to protect the plans regardless of who administers benefits. And thank you to Piedmont for another in a long series of astute posts. Not only did UPS try to raise retiree rates in '07, they demanded Hall to reopen after the '08 meltdown. The much ridiculed Ken H responded calmly by saying "Every negotiation UPS cries that the contract will break them and then goes out and sets record profits each succeeding quarter. Not once has the IBT demanded UPS open and share that wealth, we wait til the contract is up. Now you can wait." This has been a long and difficult process. But every UPS'er should be pleased with these results.

 

[Inthegame]

You have been wrong on every issue so far this contract season its not even funny anymore.

This was a money "skim" by the IBT.

Take our $19,000 allocation of insurance contributions (each member) and replace that with a $12,000 plan and "skim" off 7K and shore up the CSH&W's underfunding.

TOS

Contributions to H&W plans go to the plans, not the local and certainly not to the IBT. You already know this, so why the BS? Full time contributions from UPS to TeamCare are over $18K first year. PT contributions rates are lower, as experience in claims are less. In any case, the IBT gets no money to skim, and TeamCare gets less than your old plan had to operate with. How can you conclude money is now available to "shore" up CSH&W's alleged underfunding? They have $19Billion in reserve, without new participants. There is no underfunding.
Looks like you were dealt a blow in your election campaign as HC will be a non-issue. Time to move on to plan B.

 

[stink219]

You have been wrong on every issue so far this contract season its not even funny anymore. The "union" did not have until november to find a better or equal plan. That was NEVER the case.

Only the Southwest had until november to find a plan that they could manage themselves and implement that plan but it had to MATCH the benefit levels of the C6 at that time ( august 1st). When that failed to pass here in the southwest, the IBT began to adjust the C6 (enhance) to try to convince us to accept that P.O.S. as written. There was NEVER a plan to get better than it was presented.

This was a money "skim" by the IBT.

Take our $19,000 allocation of insurance contributions (each member) and replace that with a $12,000 plan and "skim" off 7K and shore up the CSH&W's underfunding.

The burden of this reduction in plan benefits fell onto the members in the form of backdoor costs, while attempting to sell it to us as a "similiar" plan.

This scheme has fallen short thanks to the brothers and sisters who stood up and voted this contract DOWN.

If you want to suggest to the board that the IBT all along was going to do this anyways for those of us in the West and Southwest, then you are smoking crack at best.

It was the members who pressured the IBT to do the right thing and maintain our current benefit levels with the money they were going to recieve from UPS and NOT the IBT and the trustees just being generous.

The IBT made a "deal" with the company long before this contract was negotiated and they had to make it work even if it meant "delaying" their plans for benefit reductions for another 5 years (or less).

If anyone thinks this healthcare fight is over, believe me, in 5 years we will fight it again, only this time, we will have to face off with the IBT itself and not UPS.

The IBT itself has to change. If by change that means removing all the current players involved this time in order to eliminate the possiblility of a repeat performance in 2018 then sobeit.

I can only speak for my local when I say our members are going to do just that to our officers. We no longer trust them. The lack of communication, the lies, the mis representations is enough for us to seek change.

In 2018, "we" need leaders who will protect us, and not fight against us forcing us to strike back.

These changes to Teamcare have to stand the test of time. And if in less than 5 years those benefit levels change, then we know the IBT intended on screwing us from the jump.

Making a change of 4 years without deductibles covers ALL the election cycles of the locals most vulnerable, and this is just political strategy.

Stink, you have no idea what you are talking about most of the time, and by no means did YOU have this figured out. You can pat yourself on the back all you like, but while you have your own hand on your back, you should really be pulling yourself out of the room.

Peace

TOS

No offense guy, but your on the outside looking in. I'm not running for an elected position. I have been wrong on every contract issue? Keep believing that. I hope your coworkers can see through your smoke and mirrors. You have like 1 or 2 guys on here that buy your rhetoric. It's over for you. The union isn't cruel or unjust. I've exposed your propaganda how many times? I'm sorry that you feel inferior. I can't help you with that. It's time for you to get rid of those conspiracy glasses or at least get a new script.