Teamcare

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
The same people, that complain about "Union financial Waste"....



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Spend money.... to hold their meeting at a Hilton Hotel.

What would they do, with your dues money ??


Hypocrisy.... anyone ??



-Bug-
Where do you and the company(s) hold your "meetings"?

Longwood seems appropriate.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Not asking for personal information. You keep calling it concessions but you can't back up your claims with numbers to show how UPS is benefiting from this change. The numbers I am asking for is how much does UPS pay for insurance now compared to the last contract. Bet that number is higher. In other words no concessions. You have been misinformed.

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UPS wanted out of the HC business. This was clearly stated by Hoffa numerous times. UPS would not be dead set on getting out of the HC business unless there would be a monetary gain.
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
UPS wanted out of the HC business. This was clearly stated by Hoffa numerous times. UPS would not be dead set on getting out of the HC business unless there would be a monetary gain.
Or a monetary loss to stay in. I'm old enough to remember when the TEA party & other opponents of the Affordable Care Act said the law would incentivise & eventually force employers out of the HC business. Hoffa didn't like that & screamed we gotta "take these sons of bitches out!" & continued with his unwavering support of the ACA. Not a very smart man.

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Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
UPS wanted out of the HC business. This was clearly stated by Hoffa numerous times. UPS would not be dead set on getting out of the HC business unless there would be a monetary gain.

Hoffa and Hall did clearly state this, but I don't believe it was ever the whole truth.
I wasn't there to bear witness to how the subject was broached in negotiations, but if it were indeed UPS emphatically wanting out of the HC business, that would have been a huge bargaining chip for the union.
This company is at the top of their game and a concession like this should yield major gains in other areas that didn't happen.
In fact the opposite was the case.
I submit that it was never the company that insisted on getting out, rather the union who insisted on getting their hands on that money to stabilize the HC funds for the rest of the union.

Or a monetary loss to stay in. I'm old enough to remember when the TEA party & other opponents of the Affordable Care Act said the law would incentivise & eventually force employers out of the HC business. Hoffa didn't like that & screamed we gotta "take these sons of bitches out!" & continued with his unwavering support of the ACA. Not a very smart man.


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Hoffa said it best, as we stand today, our Taft Hartley plan is "unsustainable" under the ACA.
He's taking our "good money" and throwing it after bad.
It's just a matter of time before our GWI is also taken, coupled with increasing annual deductibles, to shoulder the ever increasing burden, instead of a company with the proven resources.
I hate it when people try to bring themselves up, by bringing someone else down and that's exactly what has happened here.
It's not fair to be tricked into martyrdom.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Or a monetary loss to stay in. I'm old enough to remember when the TEA party & other opponents of the Affordable Care Act said the law would incentivise & eventually force employers out of the HC business. Hoffa didn't like that & screamed we gotta "take these sons of bitches out!" & continued with his unwavering support of the ACA. Not a very smart man.

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Avoiding a monetary loss is a monetary gain on the balance sheet. Unless the company is running in the red. UPS pulls in a few shekels every year.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Hoffa and Hall did clearly state this, but I don't believe it was ever the whole truth.
.

I agree 100%. I was just going by what Hoffa/Hall stated.

I have stated in the past that this is what Hoffa wants. He has stated in interviews that he is open to single payer healthcare. In one interview, where he mentioned single payer, he also stated that the number 1 issue during negotiations is healthcare. By getting us all into Teamcare he has taken the first step in getting his number one problem taken care of.

Hoffa, after the contract was voted on, stated in a letter "that union healthcare is unsustainable." He would love nothing more then to have all of us under a government plan. Unions would not have to negotiate healthcare or even healthcare costs. Larger wages = larger union dues.

But, seems as though I am in the minority with my theory and many would rather talk about boobs.
 

oldupsman

Well-Known Member
[qoute=I hate it when people try to bring themselves up, by bringing someone else down and that's exactly what has happened here.
It's not fair to be tricked into martyrdom.[/quote]
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
Avoiding a monetary loss is a monetary gain on the balance sheet. Unless the company is running in the red. UPS pulls in a few shekels every year.
True, a penny earned is a penny saved, but in this case UPS is still spending the cash.

The whole argument about whether the company is profiting or the union is profiting from these healthcare changes overlooks the fact that these changes are taking place because of legislation out of Washington that actively downgrades our benefits while artificially inflating the costs. It drops the task of deciding who gets screwed & how much in the laps of both the employers and the ignorant unions that supported it. I wish people would understand this isn't going to be resolved at the negotiation table. Its going to be resolved when & if the ACA is repealed. It won't happen if the majority of voters believe their employers just woke up one day & arbitrarily decided to screw up their insurance. King Mohammed Hussein aka Hopey-Dopey & his loyal closet commie Democrats did that.

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Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
I agree 100%. I was just going by what Hoffa/Hall stated.

I have stated in the past that this is what Hoffa wants. He has stated in interviews that he is open to single payer healthcare. In one interview, where he mentioned single payer, he also stated that the number 1 issue during negotiations is healthcare. By getting us all into Teamcare he has taken the first step in getting his number one problem taken care of.

Hoffa, after the contract was voted on, stated in a letter "that union healthcare is unsustainable." He would love nothing more then to have all of us under a government plan. Unions would not have to negotiate healthcare or even healthcare costs. Larger wages = larger union dues.

But, seems as though I am in the minority with my theory and many would rather talk about boobs.
Agreed. Amen. Why can't others understand this?

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kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
True, a penny earned is a penny saved, but in this case UPS is still spending the cash.

The whole argument about whether the company is profiting or the union is profiting from these healthcare changes overlooks the fact that these changes are taking place because of legislation out of Washington that actively downgrades our benefits while artificially inflating the costs. It drops the task of deciding who gets screwed & how much in the laps of both the employers and the ignorant unions that supported it. I wish people would understand this isn't going to be resolved at the negotiation table. Its going to be resolved when & if the ACA is repealed. It won't happen if the majority of voters believe their employers just woke up one day & arbitrarily decided to screw up their insurance. King Mohammed Hussein aka Hopey-Dopey & his loyal closet commie Democrats did that.

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We should all ran in fear with the "hope and change". Hope? What the hell is that? Hope? How about lets dig down and work towards a better tomorrow.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Lets drop your 25 and out pension rate to that of mine. Then I can say, "my pension remained the same". Would it not be better if you could of said " My benefits have gotten better" and be brought up to what I had?

My post was limited to the topic being discussed---healthcare.

As far as I know we have never had 25 and out.


Resident know-it-all.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
My post was limited to the topic being discussed---healthcare.

As far as I know we have never had 25 and out.


Resident know-it-all.

Ok, what if I said you will now get the same as a guy in my local with the same number of years in as you?

Oh, thats right, you will not answer do to it not being about the topic on hand. Carry on.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Ok, what if I said you will now get the same as a guy in my local with the same number of years in as you?

Oh, thats right, you will not answer do to it not being about the topic on hand. Carry on.

I will answer by saying that I am sorry that the rest of the country does not enjoy the same pension as those of us in Upstate NY and the Western Conference.

I would be lying if I said that I would be willing to give up any of it.


Resident know-it-all.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
I would be lying if I said that I would be willing to give up any of it.


Resident know-it-all.

Then you know how we feel. I feel that everyone should of been brought up to our level. Not everyone being brought down to a lower level. The added cost of my families medical will cause me to lower the amount I put away for retirement. Compounded over then next 20 years, thats a lot of money.

I appreciate your honesty.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
It just makes me laugh.

That TDU.... and their UPS "point man"....

Would lie, about their successful meetings.


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Does this really look like.... 200 people ??

They are plastering it all over social media.



-Bug-

Bug, I believe they held meetings in two states at three separate venues?
Obviously the room in this particular picture didn't hold 200 people, but how many rooms were there over the entire weekend?
You've posted pictures of several.
If I'm right on the number venues, three, 67 people per doesn't seem overly ambitious?

In the end, I think you're right to be worried.
 

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
Hoffa said it best, as we stand today, our Taft Hartley plan is "unsustainable" under the ACA.
He's taking our "good money" and throwing it after bad.
It's just a matter of time before our GWI is also taken, coupled with increasing annual deductibles, to shoulder the ever increasing burden, instead of a company with the proven resources.
I hate it when people try to bring themselves up, by bringing someone else down and that's exactly what has happened here.
It's not fair to be tricked into martyrdom.

So even though the sky remains firmly above us, you’re still convinced it’s on the way down. As you know, the letter that claims unsustainability for Taft Hartley H&W plans was a joint letter from various Union leaders and few (if any) other union contracts provide the level of benefits contained in the UPS CBA.
Furthermore, three events must occur for the union leader’s prediction of peril to occur.
1)FT hours reduced to fewer than 30 to make members ineligible.
2)Taft Hartley’s not eligible for subsidies
3)Taft Hartley’s pay tax to fund ACA rebates
Point #1 is completely inapplicable to UPS employees as FT and PT are insured (regardless of reduced hours) and covered by CBA’s with contractually guaranteed contribution increases. FT hours cannot be reduced below 30 and indeed employment at UPS is increasing (finally) nationwide, further increasing funding for TeamCare.
Point #2 is unfortunately accurate and still hasn’t been corrected, but Taft Hartleys are non-profit so have an inherent advantage over for profit HC companies. This advantage should somewhat offset this obvious gift of corporate welfare to private HC providers. I believe this point is the sole reason for the “letter” and with a more thoughtful Congress will be addressed.
Point #3 is bearable (for larger funds). Taft Hartley’s will pay a three year diminishing tax to fund the start up of the subsidy program. But many Taft Hartley’s, along with private insurers, have benefitted from pre-ACA programs by receiving government subsidies for HC coverage such as the Retiree Drug Subsidy program (UPS Plan received over 27 million one year) so the “tax” is pretty much a wash.
The Hoffa letter clearly states these events must all occur to make Taft Hartley’s “unsustainable”. Since the criteria of the letter won’t be met in the TeamCare realm for UPS’ers, one would logically conclude TeamCare will be “sustainable”.
One question for you Mr Bubble, why do you hang on this one statement (albeit erroneously) from Hoffa, when you’ve obviously made it clear to the world you think this guy needs help tying his shoes? Never mind…I already know the answer.
 
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