The Immigration Issue

[dannyboy]

Wiley

Actually they are in the top 10 producers of oil in the world. And they do a very booming business in attracting tourists. But the money last year, I believe it was 27 billion, that was sent back to mexico from here was more than both tourists and oil. So while there are natural sources of income in Mexico, wages earned or by other means in this country are still the major source of support for the economy.

d

 

[wily_old_vet]

Guess we are helping them better their economy then huh Susie?

 

[tieguy]

Dang tie, could you learn to close quotes and post in a legible manner? I'll be glad to point out how, if it will keep you from changing font colors, not knowing how to italicize and not knowing how to post a block quote.


I'm sorry I thought we were discussing the immigration issue Susan. Did you just attempt to make this an English Grammar thread?

 

[tieguy]

So you are saying close the borders (all borders) to prove you can do it(for an undetermined length of time), then control who enters? Is this your plan, in a nutshell?[/quote]

Not sure where you came up with this concept? It appears you are having a difficult time understanding my point.

You previously stated that you would control those who come across the border. Could you tell us how you propose to do so when presently anyone can sneak across the border at will?

 

[tieguy]

My stance has always been:
1) enforce the laws we have, especially protect our border, the entire border. Fund it.
2)allow a path towards citizenship for those already here, working, law abiding, and willing to learn English.
3)Punish lawbreakers, especially the corporations that enable this to happen. Put chief executives in jail if they hire people not eligible to work in the USA. That'll stop it...no more $500 fines.

Here is your previous post in which you state you would like to enforce our laws and protect our entire border. Perhaps you could explain how you would do so if you do not have the means to keep people from crossing our borders? Is there another way to control access to and through our borders if we do not have the means to completely shut off access?

 

[tieguy]

next point in your previous post you made the point that we should work to improve mexicos standard of living to address the illegal immigration issue. It appears you are making the racist assumption that the mexican border is the issue here and the racist assumption that only mexicans are sneaking across our borders. Could you explain why you made such a xenophobic racist assumption when its clear there are people of many nationalities sneaking across our borders. Thanks again for finally agreeing to take some type of stance on this issue.

 

[wkmac]

Hate to intrude on the Love Fest but ran across something that concerns the issue at hand. Brit Hume of Fox News on 5/24 discussed results of a study conducted by Pew Hispanic Center concerning current illegal immigrant and how they got here. Considering all that has been said about the border and border security, which is important, the study results do prove interesting IMO.

http://pewhispanic.org/factsheets/factsheet.php?FactsheetID=19

Original story from Hume at Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196692,00.html

On a side note,

BTW Sloth: I gotta agree with Tie on this one in that you have called him racist, etc. etc. You may not have thought you have but over the course of many posts you have used those exact words towards Tie. If you are Susan as some here suggest, if you believe this to be the case you should not backtrack. Or is it a case of admitting this will blow your cover of who you really are?

Susan threw out hints that the Bush adminstration was Fascist but never had the courage to actually come out point blank and say it when challenged to do so. I went one step further and flatly stated in the truest sense that the US gov't for most of the 20th century and to some degree beginning back in the post Civil War era to the current has been very much a fascist leaning gov't when you consider what true fascism is and factoring out the horrible abuses of the Hilter model. Those same abuses happened in even vastly greater numbers under various communists regimes during the better part of the 20th century.

When I did make that statement not one person here challenged me on it either because I laid out my reasons why I believed what I believe. Now I'm sure many disagreed with my conclusion and that's cool but the simple fact is my harsh statement towards the US gov't was allowed to stand with no name calling or other rude behavior towards me. Now isn't that interesting from the very people who over the past you've implied are just about every evil you can speak of?

Now I happen to disagree in many areas with them and they with me I'm sure and yes, Tie can be his own worst enemy at times but you ain't exactly the innocent victim here at all. Although I've not said a word or addressed this subject at all and for the most part have not engaged you at all other than use you as a poking stick to mess with Tie. you know the lovers in the night thingy (sorry, but I'mto sick a puppy to pass up having fun with that) but I also happen to believe you are Susan as well. The chief points are you both have exact styles but more interesting is the fact you both live in Az. with Susan in the Phoenix area and I just happen to believe you live at the same address also. Sometime back you posted a post concerning a candidate running against Az. Senator Kyl and I asked you several questions on the matter. It wasn't that I wasn't interested but I was also fishing to see what you would say about local Az. politics to determine if the allegation of you really being Susan could be true. Atthat point I became pretty sure of it and just sat back and watched the comedy of it. I will admit that one poster here PM'd on the matter and I told him who I thought you were and why but otherwise I just sat back and enjoyed watching you play the part of a stray cat walking the fence at night of a backyard full of yapping dogs. But it's really starting to get old!

You've not been booted out or banned so stop playing the victim here and either have the guts to be who you really are and be upfront about it or go on and do other things that really are more worthwhile. I enjoy many aspects of all sides of political debate but when you do it under the cover of darkness, when you are acting just like the skulldugery that you would accuse the Bush family of engaging in, you really begin to lack any serious credibility. If you can't be who you really are and feel that you can't then leave. I welcome your input and will defend your right to comment on any matter but do so in openness and honesty.

Now I do know Tie is scared to death of homosexuals as he and I have debated this issue so you can call him homophobe in the truest definition of the word. Now the question is Tie willing to stand up and not backtrack in being called a homophobe. Let's find out!

Tie, you really are a homophobe!

 

[wkmac]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan43.html

Read to the end to see how it ties in to the subject at hand. Interesting op-ed IMO.

 

[Slothrop]

Dang tie, could you learn to close quotes and post in a legible manner? I'll be glad to point out how, if it will keep you from changing font colors, not knowing how to italicize and not knowing how to post a block quote.

I'm sorry I thought we were discussing the immigration issue Susan. Did you just attempt to make this an English Grammar thread?

Nothing said about grammar, just your unreadable posting style.

 

[tieguy]

Another evasive answer in an attempt to avoid answering any of the questions or points posed to you by wkmac or myself.

 

[Slothrop]

mac,

I don't believe that I've called tie a racist, though I firmly believe that the 'anti-immigration' crowd is driven by racism. If the sheet fits, wear it. Xenophobia and racism are not the same thing. Tie and others have demonstrated a racist undertone in many of the threads posted here, from New Orleans to Iraq to Dubai. If I had to choose, I would say that he is more an elitist, or at least a want-to-be elitist, he's not intelligent enough to be anything more than a blow hard UPS mid-managemnet thug. He may be an Afro-American, for all I know. I know plenty of racists of all colors. I know I wouldn't want him for a neighbor, and I suspect he, and many others here are racists.

I had folks accusing me of wild ideas in this thread, when I had never stated any opinion, other than a quote from the Old Testament.

As to who I am, I can assure you that I am 100% male. I live in many places around the country. I do live part of the year in AZ, I even have a place in your fine state, though the display of the 'Stars & Bars' that seems pervasive there keeps me from spending too much time there, it makes me uncomfortable. Don't care for the humidity either, love the food though!

BTW, I do not agree with the Buchanan editorial. I don't trust any politician/pundit that claims to know what lies in the hearts of millions of people that they can't empathize with. I guess it's that 'walk a mile in my shoes' thing.

 

[tieguy]

mac,

I don't believe that I've called tie a racist, though I firmly believe that the 'anti-immigration' crowd is driven by racism.

Susan did you get confused and post on the wrong thread? The discussion here has not been anti -immigration. In fact I believe every poster here including myself has been pro-immigration. What we have been against is illegal entry into this country, against rewarding those who do so. What we have been against is the lawless , out of control border that we currently have.

 

[tieguy]

mac,

I don't believe that I've called tie a racist, though I firmly believe that the 'anti-immigration' crowd is driven by racism. If the sheet fits, wear it. Xenophobia and racism are not the same thing. Tie and others have demonstrated a racist undertone in many of the threads posted here, from New Orleans to Iraq to Dubai. If I had to choose, I would say that he is more an elitist, or at least a want-to-be elitist, he's not intelligent enough to be anything more than a blow hard UPS mid-managemnet thug. He may be an Afro-American, for all I know. I know plenty of racists of all colors. I know I wouldn't want him for a neighbor, and I suspect he, and many others here are racists.

And I believe you are a pedophile who has sick perverted cravings for infants. My belief is based on the same solid foundation that your belief in my racism is founded on.

I had folks accusing me of wild ideas in this thread, when I had never stated any opinion, other than a quote from the Old Testament.

You're selling your efforts short. I accused you of being afraid to stand up for your beliefs. You demonstrated my accusation was accurate.

As to who I am, I can assure you that I am 100% male. I live in many places around the country. I do live part of the year in AZ, I even have a place in your fine state, though the display of the 'Stars & Bars' that seems pervasive there keeps me from spending too much time there, it makes me uncomfortable. Don't care for the humidity either, love the food though!

Yep suuurrre. And the second Susie dissapeared here you come with the same outlook and the other similarities wkmac highlighted.

BTW, I do not agree with the Buchanan editorial. I don't trust any politician/pundit that claims to know what lies in the hearts of millions of people that they can't empathize with. I guess it's that 'walk a mile in my shoes' thing

you believe I need to walk a mile in your shoes to understand you. I believe I need to help you change your shoes and learn to walk a different path.

 

[wkmac]

mac,

I don't believe that I've called tie a racist, though I firmly believe that the 'anti-immigration' crowd is driven by racism. If the sheet fits, wear it. Xenophobia and racism are not the same thing. Tie and others have demonstrated a racist undertone in many of the threads posted here, from New Orleans to Iraq to Dubai. If I had to choose, I would say that he is more an elitist, or at least a want-to-be elitist, he's not intelligent enough to be anything more than a blow hard UPS mid-managemnet thug. He may be an Afro-American, for all I know. I know plenty of racists of all colors. I know I wouldn't want him for a neighbor, and I suspect he, and many others here are racists.

I had folks accusing me of wild ideas in this thread, when I had never stated any opinion, other than a quote from the Old Testament.

As to who I am, I can assure you that I am 100% male. I live in many places around the country. I do live part of the year in AZ, I even have a place in your fine state, though the display of the 'Stars & Bars' that seems pervasive there keeps me from spending too much time there, it makes me uncomfortable. Don't care for the humidity either, love the food though!

BTW, I do not agree with the Buchanan editorial. I don't trust any politician/pundit that claims to know what lies in the hearts of millions of people that they can't empathize with. I guess it's that 'walk a mile in my shoes' thing.

OK Sloth, I'll accept what you've said above for now but I still have some reservations with it. When you consider the many circumstances I can see where others here would look at you with much reservations. In any case I'll give you the benefit of doubt so for me I'll just pull my easy chair back out, grab a cold one and observe while you go back to walking the fence top at night to aggravate the dogs. It's is fun to watch this human comedy!

As for Buchannan, I wasn't asking anyone to agree or disagree. I just found the conclusion at the end to be interesting. If you happen to research across the big picture, there is some truth to what Pat is saying about various cultures re-connecting and re-asserting themselves. I could also point out that you need to consider the so-called "shoe on the opther foot" as in you might also consider walking in Pat's shoes for a mile! Don't preach unless you're willing to consider or ponder the potentials of both sides my friend.

Also, what did you think of the info at the link to the Pew Hispanic Center? If even somewhat true, it just shows the problem is beyond a "sneak across at night" border problem. The one thing I do remember about the 9/11 killers is that they all came here via normal immigration channels for entering this country and not getting wet in the river. Also you may not like this but from a military strategy standpoint it makes sense and that is by going into Iraq and creating a military theater in the so-called enemy backyard you force them back home to defend backyard tuff instead of being on offense here. This is only theory but it could be a possible reason we've had no further problems here when 9/11 would have suggested it had only begun.

Saudi is important in the Muslim world because of Holy ground but Iraq is important as the 2 leading places of Muslim teaching and edict come out of Iraq which is central to their religion. It's also another reason the military move was made in order to lay their 2 centers within a democratic society in the belief this would over time alter the teaching coming out of these important areas. Now we can agree or disagree with this thought process but over time "if" Iraq becomes democratized then the chance that Muslim teaching could be influenced away from condoning terrorist actions could come to fruition. Psy-ops warfare is as much apart of the military process as soliders and guns, maybe even moreso. I know that was a little off the real subject matter but it does tie end if you are looking "Big Picture".

I've lived around here for nearly 35 years and it's funny that I pay so little attention to the Cross of St. Andrew that I almost never see it even when it's right in front of me. That flag was a result of nothing more than political opportunism at the time and nothing more. IMHO that flag flying over the capitol with the current govt's we have was a slap in the face of the men who fought under it and the reasons they fought and it wasn't about slavery. I'm happy they changed it for that very reason alone.

Remember, it's always the winners who write the history and consider the empirical nature of the American Empire and it's history over the last 150 years and you'll begin to open the eyes up to many things that have been hidden right in plain sight.

c ya and enjoy the weekend and don't slip off that fence because any chance to bite your ass I'm sure they will!

 

[moreluck]

Win/Win Solution for the Immigration problem.......



1. Dig a moat along the length of the Mexican border.

2. Use the dirt to raise the levies in New Orleans

3. Put the Florida alligators into the moat.

Any other problems you would like me to solve?

 

[tieguy]

Win/Win Solution for the Immigration problem.......



1. Dig a moat along the length of the Mexican border.

2. Use the dirt to raise the levies in New Orleans

3. Put the Florida alligators into the moat.

Any other problems you would like me to solve?

More honey you have a future in politics with such common sense solutions.

 

[toonertoo]

I havent read all of the posts on here, it is a very heated issue and havent had time to follow........So excuse me if this was brought up before.........
But what if another incentive for hiring illegal aliens for the employer is they take out taxes, and never send them on since their is no record of them to attribute it to? HMMMMMM

 

[tieguy]

it is for the IRS. they recieve taxes paid under borrowed social security numbers.

The social security administration has exhibited gross negligence with this issue. They recieve information on alliens borrowing social security numbers and do not follow up. they hardly ever audit a company to ensure that company is doing complete and accurate I9 verification. Bush needs to clean house in the Social Security administration.

 

[wkmac]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/50thdistrict/20060603-9999-1mi3busby.html

 

[californiadreaming]

Re: Jobs Americans Won't Do

hi all, 3 (THREE) in our family were victims of ID theft last December! On our home computer from across the country! I worked over 200 hours on the case & spent over $150.00. Guess what, lost our case,spoke with me like all was ok, then sent it to Wisconsin where it technically happened. They will not do ANYTHING!!! No faith in the police anymore!
Guess who buys stolen SS#'s for $200.00 a pop? Illegals.....
Guess who was using our credit cards & credit files? No one will help, so with our sick son taking our time we "gave up". Sad state of affairs in the U.S. right now.... Technically "those" people dont exist here, no name,finger prints,etc. How can they catch them? So, Why dont they chop off their nimble computer fingers? Eye for and eye???
Or better yet sterilize all of them!!!