The Policies That Failed

[Serf]

Went to school in the 70's with a couple of guys whose family left Lebanon. What struck me about them was how much more mature they seemed than the rest of us. Can only imagine what they witnessed.

I appreciate that perspective. Most of us speak English, Arabic, and French fluently. And University Education is almost free!

 

[Maui]

You lost me when you said "Hillary, nor any other decent, moral person." Spin it any way you like, she and Bill came out of the White House "broke", her words, in 2001. Their foundation received hundreds of millions from not only corporations and wealthy individuals, but foreign governments who can't legally directly contribute to presidential campaigns. As Secretary of State more than half of meetings she took with private concerns were large donors to her foundation. Some of those gained significantly from her and Bill's interceding on their behalf. And they both were paid large sums to just give speeches. Bill's fee went up to $750k a speech after she became Secretary of State. Bernie Sanders pointed out her speaking to Wall Street and especially to Goldman Sachs, which she wouldn't allow the transcripts to be published. "Must've been a pretty good speech" said Sanders. And then it was discovered that she kept a private server that she conducted gov't business on. Supporters like to say so did other Secretaries of State. Nowhere close. And didn't share top secret info with others who didn't have clearance. People who've done a fraction of what she did have been jailed and ruined. And AFTER she was subpoenaed she had the server acid washed to eliminate any possibility of recovering 33,000 emails, emails she claimed were just about things like yoga and Chelsea's wedding. She had no right to "bleach bit" them, and the Obama administration covered for her. And she and Bill went from broke to well over $100,000,000 in net worth as it was assumed she was the next president and access was being bought.

You want to talk to us as if we're naive about what goes on, that the Democrats are the good guys, the Republicans are the evil ones. I'll put forth that there's a huge amount of money flowing through Washington, and who has access to it depends on how convincing they can be about how the other side is doing the voters wrong. But make no mistake, each side has it's constituencies that it relies heavily on. The Repubs are about creating an environment that greatly benefits business, and supports a set of social values that draws in a large voting block. The Dems are beholden to various constituencies whose social values are often at odds with both business and the social values Republicans represent. It's an even bigger block in total. There are those in gov't who are true believers in each group's core values, but by and large it's about all that money, all that power. As voters we have to decide which group is going to do the most for us. If we need jobs, if we can't stand the idea of abortion, if we love the military, etc we vote Republican. If we believe business is destroying the environment, if we think the religious right will restrict our rights, etc we vote Democrat. And over time these positions have become polarized with people on each side demonizing the other side. And we seem to be demanding politicians who are so one sided they're almost caricatures. JFK and Harry Truman weren't on the extreme left, they represented all Americans as president. Compare them with Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama. Compare Donald Trump with Ronald Reagan. It's a sad state of affairs, no pun intended. And yet after reading this there are those here who'll tell me I'm completely wrong, the Democrats are in the right, the Repubs are stupid, greedy, blah, blah, blah. We get the government we deserve.

Wow. They really have their hooks deep in you. Some of what you have written here is true, but the majority is quite false. I used to buy into the Hillary is bad thing too, but I've encountered enough people that know her personally to know she has been maligned by the RW and MSM for 25 years. It is my hope that history gets the story more fairly. We shall see.

You seem to have bought into this divide and conquer strategy you seemed to identify earlier. This if you care about X, then you vote Rep or Dem. It is such nonsense. All kinds of people, with all kinds of opinions and values vote for both parties. Racists and bigots exist in both parties and vote for both. Anti-choice voters exist in both parties. Entrepreneurs exist in both parties. Stop this black and white binary thinking please. I think you are smarter than this. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are left-centrists. We don't really now about the next unpresident because he has proclaimed so many disparate positions on most issues, but his appointees and staff represent pretty far-right white nationalist ideas. We shall see.

Try to get your news and information from better sources. Check the BEA, BLS, CBO and NIH. These are non-partisan. It would clearly show you that America has had better GDP growth, more job creation, lower debt and debt growth, and lower unemployment under Dem presidents than Rep ones. Now we have unpresidential proposals for debt spending on infrastructure that Reps fought against tooth and nail under Obama. It is ridiculous to anyone paying attention. Either debt-spending does or does not stimulate and grow the economy. That does not change depending on which party holds the oval office.
Will the Reps show themselves to be transparent hypocrites on this issue? We shall see.

Of course Reps are not all bad and Dems are not all good. That is a farcical opinion and one I would hope literally no one holds. I can tell you that calling probably a majority of Trump voters naive is among the most charitable descriptions I could use.

Oh and check NIH stats on abortion during Rep and Dem administrations. If you want less abortion, then Dems have done a better job. If you only want it criminalized, then I guess Rep is the way to go. We shall see.

 

[Maui]

He is the president elect. All I can do is trust he will do whats right. You can't go thru life not trusting anyone. Unlike many on here, I am an optimist and hope people do the right thing. Most on here do not trust anyone and always expect and wait on people to do the wrong thing. I kept waiting on Obama to do the right thing and all I got was disappointment and failed policies. The sooner we get rid of Obama care, the sooner insurance rates can become affordable for many people.

He has given no reason to believe he will do what is right. He lied consistently during the campaign. Used hateful and bigoted language against immigrants, blacks, women, muslims and the disabled. I trust people that earn it and all politicians need to be held accountable.
Edit to add: We really should know his investment entanglements to have a better idea if his proposals benefit USA or Trump org. We could get that info from tax returns.

Not sure to what you are speaking re: Obama. If you are as old as you say, then you know health care costs were rising well above inflation long before the ACA came along. Which provisions should be removed? Financial assistance for low-income? Prohibition of pre-existing conditions? Dependent coverage to age 26? Ban on lifetime limits and kicking the sickest people off insurance? Women paying the same rates as men?

I'm just curious why having more people covered than any other time in US history is a net negative. The optimist in you can surely see that positive. Quite literally, if some of these provisions are repealed, then some people will die. As a direct result. We are the richest country in the world and still do not provide coverage for all of our people. Repeal of ACA would make that worse.

 

[Maui]

Who's deflecting? I was saying Trump should release his returns during the primaries. But still, if he had done anything illegal Obama's IRS would've brought it out before the election. Expect them to show he used every trick in the book to avoid taxes, and he knew it would hurt him before the election. But right now I see the current potus trying to do a few things before he leaves and as he has no problem going around Congress I'm concerned with what he might pull. I'll worry about Trump when he actually has the power.

His foundation admitted illegal activity. There is much more suspected and we do not have all of those details either.

The point is not to showcase illegal activity, although that would be nice to know if it did exist. It is to clearly see his financial holdings and how those impact decisions and proposals. Many of these business decisions and policy proposals could affect national security.

 

[Oldfart]

He has given no reason to believe he will do what is right. He lied consistently during the campaign. Used hateful and bigoted language against immigrants, blacks, women, muslims and the disabled. I trust people that earn it and all politicians need to be held accountable.
Edit to add: We really should know his investment entanglements to have a better idea if his proposals benefit USA or Trump org. We could get that info from tax returns.

Not sure to what you are speaking re: Obama. If you are as old as you say, then you know health care costs were rising well above inflation long before the ACA came along. Which provisions should be removed? Financial assistance for low-income? Prohibition of pre-existing conditions? Dependent coverage to age 26? Ban on lifetime limits and kicking the sickest people off insurance? Women paying the same rates as men?

I'm just curious why having more people covered than any other time in US history is a net negative. The optimist in you can surely see that positive. Quite literally, if some of these provisions are repealed, then some people will die. As a direct result. We are the richest country in the world and still do not provide coverage for all of our people. Repeal of ACA would make that worse.

Obama promised those that had insurance and liked their policy could keep it. What he didn't figure was that the cost of insuring every person was gonna drive the cost of premiums for people to such staggering amounts. I know in my state, insurance companies are removing themselves from new policies because of the cost associated with Obama care. There are only 2 or 3 choices now and those policies have premiums that have doubled and tripled in the last couple of years.

Didn't Hillary have some issues with being honest during her campaign? Her and Bill have had honesty issues for several decades. It runs in the family. I seem to remember Bill telling the American people something about not having sex with a certain young lady. Seems like Hillary smeared that same lady with lies and accusations even after the truth came out. Hillary told several different stories about the emails. Hillary was no Girl Scout and the people saw thru her lies and she lost. Trump will be sworn in and the Clintons can go back to their 500k speaking engagements.

 

[vantexan]

His foundation admitted illegal activity. There is much more suspected and we do not have all of those details either.

The point is not to showcase illegal activity, although that would be nice to know if it did exist. It is to clearly see his financial holdings and how those impact decisions and proposals. Many of these business decisions and policy proposals could affect national security.

His foundation's activities wouldn't be reflected on his personal returns, but again, let's see them as other presidents have released their's. Might as well answer your other post too. You are in absolute denial about Hillary. As a conservative Christian I find her views on abortion abhorrent. She's an admirer of Saul Alinsky, and that alone disqualifies her for me to hold the highest office. And your views on America's job growth, etc don't match what real people are experiencing. You can literally say anything, wrap it up in a nice bow, but people on the street know better. Healthcare costs were certainly rising faster than inflation, but they exploded under Obama. I saw an interview with him before the 2008 election where he freely admitted his policies would cause a lot of pain. The ACA is designed with one intent, the collapse of the healthcare industry and replacing it with the single payer gov't controlled healthcare model. And it's well on it's way to accomplishing that if left alone. He said in that interview that people's utility bills would skyrocket under his cap-and-trade policy. Again, designed to put gov't in control of the economy and redistribute wealth. I'll explain in detail how it would accomplish that if you want. These aren't center-left policies and the only reason he didn't accomplish the cap-and-trade is the American public through our constitutional checks-and-balances put the Repubs back in charge of the House in the 2010 election. Hillary is absolutely more of the same. And you are in denial about the her email scandal, amongst numerous other scandals. And I have been pointing out her mistakes in the campaign that lead to her defeat. What I'm seeing from you is denial of that. The liberal elitist view appears to be that your group doesn't make mistakes, that you know what's best for everyone, and it's only simple minded fools that are standing in the way of your creating a better world for all of us. If trying to import hundreds of thousands of unvettable Muslims who might be harboring terrorists amongst them is an indication of Hillary's vision of a better America, no thanks. Create solid jobs, don't manipulate stats when tens of millions have given up finding a decent job. That's what Americans want. That and a secure border, a stronger military, a smaller, less obtrusive government. Right MFE?

 

[vantexan]

Call-in sick, or better yet, take a full load and park the truck somewhere in the middle of nowhere and have your wife pick you up.

You are an industrial terrorist, lol.

 

[Schweddy]

Unlike many on here, I am an optimist and hope people do the right thing.

yeah and Pinocchio is optimistic he can smell from miles away.

 

[vantexan]

No, sir. They are attempting to preserve the possibility of a 2 state "solution". Kerry and Obama have secured $38B in military aid for Israel, whose PM continues to aggressively expand and inflame the Palestinians.

They are trying to force Israel back to pre-1967 borders. Israel captured land during that war(in which they were attacked by multiple nations) and are exercising their right to settle it. They've already completely withdrawn from Gaza. But Hamas and Hezbollah won't be satisfied until Israel is destroyed. As such it's always been the policy of the U.S. to protect Israel and have always vetoed these resolutions. The Obama administration not only didn't veto it but it now appears they orchestrated it behind the scenes. Absolutely the most unfriendly administration to Israel ever.

 

[It will be fine]

They are trying to force Israel back to pre-1967 borders. Israel captured land during that war(in which they were attacked by multiple nations) and are exercising their right to settle it. They've already completely withdrawn from Gaza. But Hamas and Hezbollah won't be satisfied until Israel is destroyed. As such it's always been the policy of the U.S. to protect Israel and have always vetoed these resolutions. The Obama administration not only didn't veto it but it now appears they orchestrated it behind the scenes. Absolutely the most unfriendly administration to Israel ever.

And why should we care? Isreal is the only nuclear power in the Mideast, they can defend themselves. They shouldn't be our problem anymore.

 

[Oldfart]

And why should we care? Isreal is the only nuclear power in the Mideast, they can defend themselves. They shouldn't be our problem anymore.

The ONLY nuclear power?

 

[Oldfart]

yeah and Pinocchio is optimistic he can smell from miles away.

Misery and pessimism is a way of life on here. Many on here have never been nor will ever be happy. No matter who is president, how much money they make, how good benefits are. MFE, catus, mcduck, etc, etc

 

[vantexan]

And why should we care? Isreal is the only nuclear power in the Mideast, they can defend themselves. They shouldn't be our problem anymore.

The current administration seems to think they're a problem. And nuclear weapons? Only as a last resort. And a major reason we care is there's a major Jewish voting block in this country. With many very powerful, influential members.

I may have said this before but here's my opinion. We should settle every Israeli Jew in our country and others who'll take them. Give Israel to the Palestinians. It's never going to happen, but would solve many problems if we did. Until that unlikely scenario happens we have committed to defend them. Obama's lip service to the far left who support the Palestinians is playing with fire.

 

[MAKAVELI]

And a major reason we care is there's a major Jewish voting block in this country. With many very powerful, influential members.

That's one statement both sides can agree upon.

 

[It will be fine]

The current administration seems to think they're a problem. And nuclear weapons? Only as a last resort. And a major reason we care is there's a major Jewish voting block in this country. With many very powerful, influential members.

I may have said this before but here's my opinion. We should settle every Israeli Jew in our country and others who'll take them. Give Israel to the Palestinians. It's never going to happen, but would solve many problems if we did. Until that unlikely scenario happens we have committed to defend them. Obama's lip service to the far left who support the Palestinians is playing with fire.

I'm not seeing a reason why America should care. Leave them alone to fight amongst themselves. They've been around for 70 years and can defend themselves. It's not like they have any resources we want. It's time to wash our hands of the situation and let them figure it out.

 

[vantexan]

I'm not seeing a reason why America should care. Leave them alone to fight amongst themselves. They've been around for 70 years and can defend themselves. It's not like they have any resources we want. It's time to wash our hands of the situation and let them figure it out.

If America backtracks on it's allies' defense then they'll soon abandon us. And it emboldens our enemies and makes rogue regimes like Syria laugh in our face. Oh wait, that's already happening with the Obama administration.

 

[MrFedEx]

If America backtracks on it's allies' defense then they'll soon abandon us. And it emboldens our enemies and makes rogue regimes like Syria laugh in our face. Oh wait, that's already happening with the Obama administration.

Russia, who is Trump's buddy, openly supports the Syrian regime, so I'm guessing that Trump will be OK with it.

 

[MrFedEx]

Will take more than that to get you to quit crying.

I'll only stop if you go away. Move to Memphis and put your retirement savings into a statue honoring Fred.

 

[MrFedEx]

You are an industrial terrorist, lol.

DO IT!!

 

[MrFedEx]

I'm not seeing a reason why America should care. Leave them alone to fight amongst themselves. They've been around for 70 years and can defend themselves. It's not like they have any resources we want. It's time to wash our hands of the situation and let them figure it out.

Israel is practically our 51st state.