Time card shaving

[Jim Kemp]

This working off the clock is like heroin to mgt. The more you do it the more they want. Same goes for drivers skipping their lunch. The more you give them the more they want. Eventually you will have no place else to get the time from to feed their habit. Better off never starting it.

 

[1989]

Well, most of the drivers come into their cars early and off the clock. They sort, mentally line up their day, etc. I asked a manager once what would happen if they got hurt. Basically, the center likes them working for free but would throw them under a bus if they filed for an injury.

This became an issue with me because one of my drivers is kind of a dick and he's in my way for the last part of my shift. We got into an argument and I demanded he be out of the car since he's not even clocked in. His manager approved him being able to be in the car, so I lost.

I first liked working at UPS because the hours were short, the bennies are good, and I got a workout. Now I resent it every day because I feel I'm always getting screwed. I'm never getting the straight story.

When he gets in, leave his pkgs. at the rear door for him to load.

 

[Bubblehead]

When he gets in, leave his pkgs. at the rear door for him to load.

Great idea! When he or the supervisor takes issue simply say that there is not room for the two of you in the back of his truck.

 

[JonFrum]

Hey guys,

So my paychecks have been light since I transferred as a preloader to this other center, and some of the employees alleged that the manager 'adjusts' our timecards. So I started keeping record and found over a half hour shaved off my card for this last check.

Now, is there any contract rule that allows them to do that? If my start time is 5:15, and I clock in at 5:10, can they adjust that? Is it legal (Oregon)? We have no setup time. I know I'm supposed to start at 5:15 but the belt starts at 5:15 too, and I have to get my charts, etc.

Thanx in advance.

Robb,
Setup work is bargaining unit work and you should do it on the clock.

Article 17 --- Paid for Time
All employees covered by this Agreement shall be paid for all time spent in service of the Employer. Rates of pay provided for by this Agreement shall be minimums. Time shall be computed from the time that the employee is ordered to report for work and registers in and until the employee is effectively released from duty. . . .

The Employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation.

ARTICLE 3. RECOGNITION, UNION SHOP AND CHECKOFF
Section 7. Supervisors Working
a) . . . The Employer also agrees that supervisors or other employees of the Employer who are not members of the bargaining unit shall not perform bargaining unit work in preparing the work areas before the start of the Employer's hub, preload or reload operation . . .

Also, check your Supplement and State Law.

 

[thom1842]

I have a question that is semi-related. I am a PT Air Driver and we are told to gather our totes, two-wheelers, and supplies for restocking boxes before our shift starts. Is this different than what the poster is talking about?

 

[over9five]

No. It is the same thing. Punch in, wait till your start time, then start work.

 

[Bubblehead]

I have a question that is semi-related. I am a PT Air Driver and we are told to gather our totes, two-wheelers, and supplies for restocking boxes before our shift starts. Is this different than what the poster is talking about?

No difference at all. I mean really, how can this be such a mystery. How is this any different than your manager telling you he needs you to pick up his dry cleaning on the way in.

I apologize if this comes off as harsh but I just can't believe that this is such a gray area.

 

[BrownSuit]

As everybody else has said, you aren't going to get paid before your start time.

You should not be working prior to your start time
1. Because you aren't going to get paid but more importantly
2. When and I say when because it generally happens at some point, when you get hurt, you need to be clocked in to collect Workman's Comp.

If you are working off the clock, not only is UPS liable, but they likely aren't going to pay a penny for your Workman's Comp injury.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It should be noted that there is a difference between an injury which occurs before your start time and one that occurs when you are working before your start time. In the first, you could trip and fall in the parking lot on your way in and the injury would be covered. In the second, if you are injured while performing work before your start time and you have not been approved to start early, your injury most likely would not be a covered injury and therefore most likely would not be considered a comp injury.

I do have a question for the original poster. You said that you had to gather your load charts, etc., prior to your start time. Is your center not on PAS/EDD yet?

 

[rod]

We actually had a center manager that was caught changing finnish times on some newbies timecard. The newbie raised all kinds of hell and that center manager was sent to a different part of the state and demoted to on car sup. Personally I thought they were too leiniant on him.

 

[soberups]

I am also in Oregon, and either the Western Conference supplement or the JC #37 supplement (which I believe covers Bend as well as Portland) states that when management does any timecard adjustments or edits, a copy of said edit shall be provided to the affected employee to sign off on.

What is really sad about this situation is that there are so many simple things that management could do to truly improve efficiency....and yet they choose instead to pressure people who are working part time for $10 an hour to work off the clock.

You have the ability to stop the belt. Use it. Start at your designated start time, not a moment earlier. If you get behind, stop the belt until you get caught up. If you are "late" getting wrapped up, then your management will have some choices to make about adjusting your start time.

 

[soberups]

One other thing to consider...you have been "donating" 5 minutes of your time to management. Lets turn that around for a second and pretend that you had been stealing 5 minutes of time instead. The moment your sup found out, he would fire your ass. You have every right to expect the same level of honest and integrity from management as they expect from you.

 

[Babagounj]

LOL, Baba, we wrote the same thing at the same time!

AMAZING

 

[chester farmer]

I will say this. There is and will be time shaved off the clock as long as the system they have in place is used. It is in a sups best interest to shave time and most due. I am one and I know. I have never ever shaved 1 sec but unless my guys do exactly as I say I cannot guarentee my sup does not. I instruct them to right down there time on my TDR. Then also in a seperate note book that I keep since I hand in the TDR. Supposedly the TDR is the reference that is used when paying employees however I dont see them being looked at. If one of my guys has a problem with getting paid we will go back and look at the notebook since I still have it to reference. It is signed by me and the employee. If your paystub does not match it I will go to the gates of hell to get you compensated because I know someone has messed with there hours. If they are to lazy to fill it out everyday I tell them cry me a river. I have a fool proof system in place to make sure they are compansated. It is a shame but just the way it is. I make sure I pay them appropiately. Someone above me cuts there hours I have to have proof. If they write there time down and I compare it to the tdr and clock everynight I know 100% they have been jipped. Ask your sup to do the same. Also dont lift a finger before start time even if your sup asks. He should not ask because you are the one SOL if you get hurt. I will however have scanners together and belts with laminated charts hanging on them at start time. I would testify under oath with my hand on the bible that I have personally seen time taken from employees. However when I was one it happen weekly to me until I found a full time specialist that I talked to and had verify my hours for 4 days in a row. He got in the system on the 5th day and found I was 1hr and 45 minutes short. We work 5-6 hour shifts. He took it to the district manager which quickly brought an apology from the sup who did it. Now that I am also a sup I see the same guy doing it often enough to make me cringe. That is why you have got to write your time down. And file a grievance when you get shorted. They will not cut you when they know you are watching and grieving.

 

[Babagounj]

I have a question that is semi-related. I am a PT Air Driver and we are told to gather our totes, two-wheelers, and supplies for restocking boxes before our shift starts. Is this different than what the poster is talking about?

NO its the same situation. You are doing UPS work for free.

 

[Robb]

To answer questions, I am in Bend, where we have 2 centers, and no the one I am in is not on PAS, and I think the other center is just getting setup. We're the last.

Also, at the other center our clock in was digital with our ID numbers and I never had this problem. At this center we 'punch' in literally, and sometimes when we run out of time cards we write it down on paper or sticky notes, so it would be very easy to fraud us.

As for stopping the belt, they are very big on enforcing the few reasons a belt can be stopped according to policy, and catching up is not one, we've been told.

So, let's be clear on this thing - do they or do they not have to get my sig to adjust my time card, no matter what reason? Because I haven't signed anything and I thought there was a law about this, and law is supposed to trump company policy.

 

[JonFrum]

Three different posters are saying that you are not covered by Worker's Compensation if you are working off the clock. I don't know for sure, and I realize the rules are different from state to state, but here in Mass. you are covered traveling to work, and while doing anything work related.

Working off the clock isn't a felony! And besides, it's UPS' contractual responsibility to pay you for your time, or stop you from working.

I'm going to assume you are covered unless someone can cite a legal reference to the contrary. Remember, Worker's Comp is a no-fault insurance system. Generally you are covered right or wrong (in exchange for signing away your right to sue!)

[We just had a supervisor traveling to work who was stopped in traffic and rear-ended by a lumber truck!!! I assume he's covered.]

 

[Cementups]

We actually had a center manager that was caught changing finnish times on some newbies timecard. The newbie raised all kinds of hell and that center manager was sent to a different part of the state and demoted to on car sup. Personally I thought they were too leiniant on him.

you're right, because any of us hourlies would be fired for falsifying records.

 

[1989]

To answer questions, I am in Bend, where we have 2 centers, and no the one I am in is not on PAS, and I think the other center is just getting setup. We're the last.

So, let's be clear on this thing - do they or do they not have to get my sig to adjust my time card, no matter what reason? Because I haven't signed anything and I thought there was a law about this, and law is supposed to trump company policy.

No, they can't change your timecard. But you do not get paid before your start time, and you can't change your start time without approval.

 

[drewed]

Three different posters are saying that you are not covered by Worker's Compensation if you are working off the clock. I don't know for sure, and I realize the rules are different from state to state, but here in Mass. you are covered traveling to work, and while doing anything work related.

[We just had a supervisor traveling to work who was stopped in traffic and rear-ended by a lumber truck!!! I assume he's covered.]

My understanding of this was its traveling to or from a vehicle (on company property) not to and from your house, because lets say you stopped by McDs to get a egg Mcmuf and have a heart attack, should the company be liable for your fat ass?

We had a driver last winter slip and fall coming down from the 2nd parking lot (across a municipal street and up a hil from the building) he hurt his back. The investigation was done, the driver said this is where i fell, UPS took pictures. He went to the DR tried to claim comp but couldnt because he was on municipal land, and it was the city's responsibilty for the up keep