Time studies

[aspenleaf]

I know that preload causes a lot of these issues. No one should blame the drivers for all that goes wrong. We all play a part in the success or failure of any day.

 

[beentheredonethat]

They had 3 day time studies years ago,now it only takes 1 day"it all averages out" RIGHT!!!

As for missed scans alot are misloads put on wrong cars ,bad pals and assorted other problems not just THE DRIVERS

That, 3 day time studies, must have been a long long time ago. I did time studies 16 years ago, and we didn't do 3 day rides back then and the guy who instructed us had been in and out of time study for over 10 years at that point and never mentioned that. We have done 3 day OJS rides. We have done 3 day rides with and without time study people to see what part of the drivers day is consistently where driver is losing time. We've also done multiple day rides to see if we could justify for a variance in areas that driver is following methods and he is consistenly overallowed. Usually this is in large malls with one park position driver has huge long walks inside mall that doesn't work out well with the study.

 

[toonertoo]

beentheredonethat, I just have one small question,............. and it is the last time in my life I will ever ask, but no one who knows time study will ever answer me. Does the size matter...............of the car?
What I have noticed is...since the "new and improved standards" where we lost 5.8 seconds per pkg=30 minutes behind before we hit the gate (based on 300 scanned pkg) that those of us who used to be scratch to plus 50 are an hour late or more, especially those of us with 1000s or 1300s.
Now I have been told packages dont matter for much in time study..........
and Im thinking, well that is what we deliver..............
it cannot be just to and from miles, it cant be just on road miles
it cannot be just cod and call tags.......
Is there not a difference in the walk select, sort phase of a time study which would alllow more in a 1300 than a p600??? After all 1/4 of the day you would be walking about 16 more steps than in a p6.
My fellow guys and I are all a buck over than the ones still in 600s, and we were all in 600s when the study was done.
So if Im wrong Ill just go have another drink, if Im right I still will. I would just like an honest answer. Seems to me the first thing they put on a time study sheet was name, ss and package car SIZE for the study. Am I right or wrong?

 

[BoogaBooga]

IE=Intelligent Enigma. I have no clue where they get these numbers from. It puzzles me how everything boils down to stops per car, and pieces don't mean much when I look at the operation report.

 

[177member]

Aspenleaf, one of the games UPS management plays during time studies is to have the load groomed. That is, to have it made perfect so the driver doesn't lose additional time for sorting and selecting. They usually will remove stops and bulk. They also will make sure the delivery sequence is perfect. The result no longer represents reality. It is usually done when management is trying to attain a production benchmark that they think they can hold the driver to, usually SPORH (stops per on road hour). It is just one more unethical tool that is used to harass a worker for higher production levels. Every time you witness this inform the driver or his steward so the time study can be thrown out and not recognized as fair or legitimate.

 

[speeddemon]

I recently ran a route with a supervisor. We smoked it, and was still showong 1 hour over allowed. What a bunch of dishonest liars.

 

[tieguy]

There are routes that are tough to scratch.

However with most if the price was right you could scratch it. In fact if I had a million dollars in a bag and told a driver he could have that million dollars if he followed the methods and scratched the route then he would scratch the route. Why?

Because every minute he spent on that route would be totally focused on the most efficent way to run that route. He would be totally focused one hundred percent on earning that million dollars.

Getting the same kind of focus from all drivers does not happen. I see the results every day. The drivers who hustles on the route and has rarely or never had an injury on the job. He's the first one in and the first one home everyday. Because mentally thats his focus to get the job done and go home.

 

[helenofcalifornia]

It has been my experience when driving, that the guy who hustles to get his stops off and in early is either the center manager favorite for obvious reasons and does NOT get 40 extra stops put on his truck. OR he is a rookie who will get the 40 extra stops because he can "burn" them off. Forgive my skepticism and my sore knees.

 

[Brown Scourge]

I haven't read all of the posts on this subject but as a management person who did time studies for five years, four as the coordinator, I can speak with some authority on the subject. Some people do them right and some do them wrong. When I have a team of four supervisors plus myself I approached it like this. I want the load right to begin with, everything in it's place but everything there, no short cuts. I want the driver to do everything like he/she is supposed to do it, no short cuts. I want him/her to tell me if there is any reason he or she can not do a particular stop by the methods. If the explaniation sounded reasonalble I gave them credit for doing it that way. If not the didn't get the credit. If a driver fights you every step of the way you still give them credit for how the methods say the job should be done. Like the olf POLICE song "Every step you take, evey move you make, I'll be watching you".
When the time study was done I reviewed all of them before we sat down with the driver and a union steward and explained them in detail. If the driver gained time we gave it to them, if they lost time we explained where the loss was and why. I never in five years had a time study not implemented when it should have been implemented because the driver filed a grievance. Pretty proud of that too. My thoughts on Time study are, if you do them right and give the driver the time to do the job right they will. The driver will look good on paper, so will the supervisor, the manager, the division manager, the district manager and the district too. As a time study person I should not be affected by the results and that is the way it should be. If you think something on a timestudy is wrong go to your steward and sit down with your supervisor and manager and time study coordinator and get it explained or fixed.

 

[disneyworld]

There are routes that are tough to scratch.

However with most if the price was right you could scratch it. In fact if I had a million dollars in a bag and told a driver he could have that million dollars if he followed the methods and scratched the route then he would scratch the route. Why?

Because every minute he spent on that route would be totally focused on the most efficent way to run that route. He would be totally focused one hundred percent on earning that million dollars.

Getting the same kind of focus from all drivers does not happen. I see the results every day. The drivers who hustles on the route and has rarely or never had an injury on the job. He's the first one in and the first one home everyday. Because mentally thats his focus to get the job done and go home.

No,the faster you go and the earlier you get in only means one thing to management. "He doesn't have enough work"

 

[dannyboy]

The drivers who hustles on the route and has rarely or never had an injury on the job. He's the first one in and the first one home everyday

Tie

I know, I know. I only know about my little microcosm of the larger company.

At our center, 8 of the 10 drivers that get in early predictably are on our injury repeater list. Most are on our auto accident repeaters. Three have had roll aways, when there has only been four in ten years. Most have multiple customer complaints on just about every route they go on. And some have been caught delivering out of the personal vehicle after they have punched out to go home.

So yes, they are focused. But not on the quality of performance at their job. They want to get in at all costs. And at times, even if getting in early means doing things to get them fired.

So while your million dollar scenario is interesting, there are many aspects to the drill that dont fit reality.

BTW, there are many 30 day wonders that prove your point. Hell, I can even do the impossible for 30 days. But try 30 years.

d

 

[upsdude]

The first driver back in our building is the first driver sent back out with LIB’s or to help someone.

After a week or so on my current route I was running scratch or better everyday. Then UPS realized they “forgot” to adjust the time allowance from paper to DIAD. Bam! All the sudden I’m getting beat by 30-45 minutes a day. Here I am 6 years later with area knowledge to die for, and I’m getting beat by 60-75 minutes a day. I ran a SPOHR of 23.7 one day and was under 8 and an hour over. I have to admit though, no member of management has yet to question me about production. Getting off work at 7:30 to have an “8 Hour” day is getting old.

Mike Eskew wouldn’t understand working his butt off only to have a computer tell him the next morning that he did a substandard job.

His Bio from UPS.com……………………..

A native of Vincennes, Ind., Eskew graduated from Purdue University with a bachelor's degree in industrial engineering. He also completed the Advanced Management Program at the Wharton School of Business. Eskew began his UPS career in 1972 as an industrial engineering manager in Indiana. His advancement continued in various positions of increasing responsibility including time with UPS's operations in Germany and with UPS Airlines.

I don’t see any hourly employment, do you?

 

[tieguy]

No,the faster you go and the earlier you get in only means one thing to management. "He doesn't have enough work"

Sometimes your right. depends on how well they dispatch and where your route is.

 

[tieguy]

Tie

I know, I know. I only know about my little microcosm of the larger company.

At our center, 8 of the 10 drivers that get in early predictably are on our injury repeater list. Most are on our auto accident repeaters. Three have had roll aways, when there has only been four in ten years. Most have multiple customer complaints on just about every route they go on. And some have been caught delivering out of the personal vehicle after they have punched out to go home.

So yes, they are focused. But not on the quality of performance at their job. They want to get in at all costs. And at times, even if getting in early means doing things to get them fired.

So while your million dollar scenario is interesting, there are many aspects to the drill that dont fit reality.

BTW, there are many 30 day wonders that prove your point. Hell, I can even do the impossible for 30 days. But try 30 years.
d

Danny,

I actually think we are agreeing here. My million dollar scenario talks about focusing on the job methods , safety and performance.

Human nature is that many of our drivers that don't scratch , that do have injuries/ accidents and do have service connects do not stay focused on task. They let their minds wander or they are distracted or they take shortcuts.

 

[beentheredonethat]

beentheredonethat, I just have one small question,............. and it is the last time in my life I will ever ask, but no one who knows time study will ever answer me. Does the size matter...............of the car?
What I have noticed is...since the "new and improved standards" where we lost 5.8 seconds per pkg=30 minutes behind before we hit the gate (based on 300 scanned pkg) that those of us who used to be scratch to plus 50 are an hour late or more, especially those of us with 1000s or 1300s.
Now I have been told packages dont matter for much in time study..........
and Im thinking, well that is what we deliver..............
it cannot be just to and from miles, it cant be just on road miles
it cannot be just cod and call tags.......
Is there not a difference in the walk select, sort phase of a time study which would alllow more in a 1300 than a p600??? After all 1/4 of the day you would be walking about 16 more steps than in a p6.
My fellow guys and I are all a buck over than the ones still in 600s, and we were all in 600s when the study was done.
So if Im wrong Ill just go have another drink, if Im right I still will. I would just like an honest answer. Seems to me the first thing they put on a time study sheet was name, ss and package car SIZE for the study. Am I right or wrong?

Tooner - It's been a while since i did it and I'm not 100% sure, so I'll double check and get back to you. I know that for a preloader loading a larger car does give you more time then loading a small car due to the avg number of paces into the car is greater.
BTDT

 

[aspenleaf]

Thanks to everyone who has posted - the dynamics of a time study are interesting and I like hearing from management and drivers.

If it true that they groom loads then why do the study at all if the results will be false? The truck next to me when on a time study today and his truck is usually so packed we have to use the middle and stuff is just about ready to fall off. Today you could walk down the middle and everything was on or under the shelf. Meanwhile the guy next to him had so many packages the driver was helping to stuff them into any opening in the load.


I know I am still a "newbie" at UPS but does management really have time to harass workers? I am not saying some don't do this but it seems a lot of people lump all of management and I know they can't call be "evil". What do you mean by that? I know that if I am told things at work I don't take that to be harassment. However my sup can say the same thing to a few preloaders and some will feel she is harassing them. Do you feel harassed because someone said something you don't like are or is there real harassment going on? When I say harassment I mean that someone is going out of their way to make your life hell (and they are nice to most everyone else). I have no idea what you drivers go through so if you are harassed I am truly sorry for that and hope you file as much as you need to correct the situation.

 

[toonertoo]

Tooner - It's been a while since i did it and I'm not 100% sure, so I'll double check and get back to you. I know that for a preloader loading a larger car does give you more time then loading a small car due to the avg number of paces into the car is greater.
BTDT

Thanks I would appreciate your input.

 

[30andout]

Tie, If time studys are mostly correct, how do you explain that I have been on the same rt. for 20 yrs running normally 50 to an hour under and getting in with the first 5 drivers. Now that our center has been re-looped the only way I can run under is to skip lunch and or breaks. Most days I come in with the last 5 drivers, I haven't changed the way I work at all, and now I am almost always over.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Tie, If time studys are mostly correct, how do you explain that I have been on the same rt. for 20 yrs running normally 50 to an hour under and getting in with the first 5 drivers. Now that our center has been re-looped the only way I can run under is to skip lunch and or breaks. Most days I come in with the last 5 drivers, I haven't changed the way I work at all, and now I am almost always over.

In many districts, when they implemented PAS the changed allowances for the per pkg delivery allowance. Kind of dumb if you ask me. What they should have done, in my opinion, is as the percent of pkgs with bar codes increased they should have weighted the per pkg allowance to reflect scanning the bar code vs writing down the pkg information. Slowly the measurements would have changed reflecting UPS going from 0% of pkgs with bar codes to 99.9 % with bar codes. By doing it all at once and by doing it at the same time they implemented PAS it gave a bad taste in everyones mouth for the standards and PAS.

 

[30andout]

They changed our per pkg allowance about a year ago.