TonyQ's True Intentions

[zubenelgenubi]

And I'm not pushing you to vote yes. I am leaning toward the no vote, but need a little more info, which we should get after the meeting, before I firmly decide.

So why are you even getting involved in this particular conversation? My issue is mostly with the people pushing a yes vote. I need more information too. The people pushing a yes vote seem certain of their position, so I want to know why, and they can't tell me. The IBT is mostly collateral damage (I don't believe I was the one who dragged them into the argument, but I could be wrong) because the arguments can extend to their actions as well. Like I said, my local is recommending a no vote. I know why I am voting no, and try as I might, I can't get a straight answer from the vote yes community, so I have to assume their arguments are weak or non-existent.

No one expects a direct personal response from a representative, but if you don't make them aware of the problems, you have no one to blame but yourself. A general response that actually addresses the real concerns isn't too much to ask from the President or the IBT.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

NMA raises have beaten inflation for the last twenty five years, but you wouldn't know it from reading these threads.

That may be, and I said I would be happy if they just kept up with inflation. Making slightly more in five years than I am now adjusted for inflation isn't that much to be happy about, considering the real problems with the contract. But people keep bringing up the increases like it's the main issue. That's called deflection.

 

[Mugarolla]

So why are you even getting involved in this particular conversation? My issue is mostly with the people pushing a yes vote. I need more information too. The people pushing a yes vote seem certain of their position, so I want to know why, and they can't tell me. The IBT is mostly collateral damage (I don't believe I was the one who dragged them into the argument, but I could be wrong) because the arguments can extend to their actions as well. Like I said, my local is recommending a no vote. I know why I am voting no, and try as I might, I can't get a straight answer from the vote yes community, so I have to assume their arguments are weak or non-existent.

No one expects a direct personal response from a representative, but if you don't make them aware of the problems, you have no one to blame but yourself. A general response that actually addresses the real concerns isn't too much to ask from the President or the IBT.

Playing Devil's Advocate?

Because I enjoy a good debate?

Because a few things you posted did not sit very well with me?

I don't know, maybe all of the above.

And this

Making slightly more in five years than I am now adjusted for inflation isn't that much to be happy about

Not happy about $40/hr. Wow.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Playing Devil's Advocate?

Because I enjoy a good debate?

Because a few things you posted did not sit very well with me?

I don't know, maybe all of the above.

If you want to play devil's advocate, and meaningfully address my concerns, you could at least speculate about the answers to my questions instead of just repeating the same stuff that the yes voters have been spewing. Give me something to think about to help me see things from the yes vote perspective, so far I have nothing but "wait til your local meeting". I had that before, so if you have nothing to contribute to actually advance the conversation, why even participate?

 

[Mugarolla]

If you want to play devil's advocate, and meaningfully address my concerns, you could at least speculate about the answers to my questions instead of just repeating the same stuff that the yes voters have been spewing. Give me something to think about to help me see things from the yes vote perspective, so far I have nothing but "wait til your local meeting". I had that before, so if you have nothing to contribute to actually advance the conversation, why even participate?

I addressed your concerns and edited my previous post. I added that you are not very exited about $40/hr. Part of the reason I responded to your posts. A little miss information.

 

[Mugarolla]

What would the IBT do, if they don't carry the room?????

That is an excellent question that I hope I know the answer to.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Not happy about $40/hr. Wow.

83k a year in 2023....
WDFD
Nothing to get excited about.

 

[Mugarolla]

83k a year in 2023....
WDFD
Nothing to get excited about.

With a full pension, healthcare and 7 weeks of vacation....Not bad.

You also based that on 40 hours. Who works 40 hours? Add another $15K in OT, at least.

And don't tell me that the proposed 22.4 jobs are going to eliminate all your OT.

$100K a year with a full pension, healthcare, and 7 weeks of vacation for delivering cardboard ain't too shabby.

Other areas of the contract, I agree, need work and nothing to get exited about.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

$100K a year with a full pension, healthcare, and 7 weeks of vacation for delivering cardboard ain't too shabby.

Other areas of the contract, I agree, need work and nothing to get exited about.

I don't deliver cardboard. And even if I did, I'm not the kind of defeatist with self worth issues that uses non Union laborers to gauge my value.

We are leaders in this industry. We should be raising the tides, not letting the sinking ships of RTW gig economy garbage to drag us down or anchor our wages.

Median pay for a company fleet truck driver is 86k. 100k? Great! Don't pretend like I should accept concessions for the people under me waiting for their chance to get my job though. We set the standard for the industry, and we are slacking.

 

[ManInBrown]

The guy is out of the West..He should be happy about his pension benefits...I would be dancing in the street if I had their pension payout..(7250 with 30, any age)..

Now put somebody in the Central or Southern in front of a whiteboard explaining why we should vote this thing in? Maybe I will change my vote, convince me..

The West gets seven thousand dollars per month? Holy sheet

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I addressed your concerns and edited my previous post. I added that you are not very exited about $40/hr. Part of the reason I responded to your posts. A little miss information.

No you never addressed my concerns. You addressed your strawman version of my concerns, maybe? You tried to discredit me, telling me I'm clueless, and I need to read what's available. I countered every supposed argument you brought to bear, and your main answer to my concerns were to bring them up at my local meeting. I already planned to do that, so you added nothing to the conversation.

As for the $40/hr, if I made that at the beginning of the contract, that might possibly wow me. But by the end, it might just beat inflation, it might be a little higher, or a little lower. It's certainly nothing to do cartwheels over. I said two or three times that I would be happy with the compensation as agreed and even less. It's just not enough to make me happy about the rest of the contract.

I want to know why anyone thinks we should vote yes on the master agreement as it is right now. I have already, and repeatedly conceded that there are some issues that aren't terrible. They are mostly neutral, and not enough to override the bad parts. So, what am I missing? What is the grand design that I don't understand? What is the logic behind the givebacks and concessions that I am unaware of that would make me change my tune on the master as it is? No one has offered any real answers to these simple questions.

 

[DELACROIX]

Their justification would be that both parties had professional lawyers and accountants look over this contract and came to the conclusion that a dollar raise in each of our General Wage Increase, Pension and Health and Welfare plans would bankrupt the Company. The rank and file is just not smart enough to understand the intricate details of economics, eat cake you all.

Annually UPS raises their rate 5 to 6 percent with extra additional surcharges on their larger packages and services.
Do the math everybody and look at our GWI and contributions into our Pension and H/W plans and see if our raises should of been better. This is a 5 year contract and they made record profits each quarter, pretty sure they would not be losing profits if they upped the ante..Of course I am not a professional accountant or attorney, maybe I am wrong?

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I don't deliver cardboard.

No doubt.

 

[Mugarolla]

I said two or three times that I would be happy with the compensation as agreed and even less.

I responded to you talking about your compensation, here let me help you out.

I have nothing to look forward to in this contract. Drivers still in progression will get a nice raise, money that I did without for 4 years. New drivers will get even more, but bully for them. I just have to live with the fact that I got hired as a driver under the worst deal for new drivers probably ever.

How much do you want that will get you exited?

I also have issues with other areas of the contract, and said that.

 

[Doubleparkedrunner]

I am fine with either. Vote no also.

that's your calling card ; you never actually answer or even ATTEMPT to answer the question. You just deflect and try to incite. See , if someone could come up with a good answer then we could have a good back n forth discussion.

Until then, your vote no mantra is just white noise.

You came on here and perhaps gave hope too many in that you would have some substance and quality to your posts but instead you've screen name has turned out to be a punchline.

 

[Mugarolla]

Median pay for a company fleet truck driver is 86k. 100k?

Sources?

If you say $100K with full paid benefits is not near or at the top of the payscale, you are crazy.

I See $79K for a fleet truck driver whose benefits are no where near ours. Our fleet truck drivers make at least 30% more than that with full benefits.

Truck drivers wanted. Pay: $73,000

How about a package delivery driver?

I see $25K

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/package-delivery-driver-salary-SRCH_KO0,23.htm

$28K

Delivery Driver Salaries in the United States | Indeed.com

I see FedEx, yes non union, is around $49K. We are double that, thanks to the Union.

Average FedEx Ground Salary

 

[Doubleparkedrunner]

I respond in case someone read the first one. Don't want anyone thinking I'm conceding such ridiculous arguments. There's so much to address, you have to go point by point. It becomes a battle of will and stamina at some point.

absolutely agree. if he didn't respond to each quote he would be deemed a malcontent. especially since the one he's debating with was just taking his words out of context and giving twisted responses that weren't valid or applicable to what his original post was.

 

[Tony Q]

that's your calling card ; you never actually answer or even ATTEMPT to answer the question. You just deflect and try to incite. See , if someone could come up with a good answer then we could have a good back n forth discussion.

Until then, your vote no mantra is just white noise.

You came on here and perhaps gave hope too many in that you would have some substance and quality to your posts but instead you've screen name has turned out to be a punchline.

I am okay with whatever you think about me. I have offered a lot of substance, but you as a typical member it is never enough.

 

[Doubleparkedrunner]

I am okay with whatever you think about me. I have offered a lot of substance, but you as a typical member it is never enough.

blah blah blah. you have never answered the question.

...just another " typical member " attack.

and no answer.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

absolutely agree. if he didn't respond to each quote he would be deemed a malcontent. especially since the one he's debating with was just taking his words out of context and giving twisted responses that weren't valid or applicable to what his original post was.

I'm glad someone else sees it. Thanks.