TSG WAKE UP! UPS rules with fear and intimidation

[IHATEUPS]

UPS talks a great game such as these, quoted directly from their policy book. People are our strongest asset. Our most valuable assets are loyal and capable people. The strength of this company is its people. We build our organization around people. We insist upon the integrity of our people. However the truth of the matter is that UPS has no integrity and they could not care less about their people. UPS believes in management by fear and intimidation. They believe that a good employee is the employee who is always wondering if today is the day they get fired. Work hard and we will take care of you, and you have a job for life, are words often heard from management. However, UPS believes the way to manage people is to hold out the carrot of non-existent security, then pull the rug out from under them. And when you question them, what happens? The employee is leaned on and brow-beaten until they conform or quit. Oh yes, UPS is good at this. They have it perfected. And do you know why it works? It works because we have no one on our side! We have no one who stands up for our RIGHTS! IT WORKS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNIONIZED!!!

 

[RetiredandLovingIT]

We have no one who stands up for our RIGHTS! IT WORKS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNIONIZED!!!

UNIONIZATION IS NOT THE ANSWER!

UPS is one of the greatest organizations in the world. I am very proud to say I work for UPS. Opportunities are numerous for those that desire to achieve greater heights through higher education and hard work. All unionization would do is remove "personal achievement" from the equation and make everyone equal, in the eyes of the union. The only thing that would count is seniority. That is what a union will do for you, not save your jobs or represent you in a way that would benefit TSG personnel.

Please do not be led into filling out any type of union materials, especially anything that requires your signature. You cannot take it back...
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[tieguy]

UPS talks a great game such as these, quoted directly from their policy book. People are our strongest asset. Our most valuable assets are loyal and capable people. The strength of this company is its people. We build our organization around people. We insist upon the integrity of our people. However the truth of the matter is that UPS has no integrity and they could not care less about their people. UPS believes in management by fear and intimidation. They believe that a good employee is the employee who is always wondering if today is the day they get fired. Work hard and we will take care of you, and you have a job for life, are words often heard from management. However, UPS believes the way to manage people is to hold out the carrot of non-existent security, then pull the rug out from under them. And when you question them, what happens? The employee is leaned on and brow-beaten until they conform or quit. Oh yes, UPS is good at this. They have it perfected. And do you know why it works? It works because we have no one on our side! We have no one who stands up for our RIGHTS! IT WORKS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNIONIZED!!!

RAh , Rah , Rah !!!! yes company hate us. Non-existent union loves us. Company evil. Very bad. They should give me a living for the rest of my life simply because I chose to work here. If they don't then company very mean.

 

[RetiredandLovingIT]

RAh , Rah , Rah !!!! yes company hate us. Non-existent union loves us. Company evil. Very bad. They should give me a living for the rest of my life simply because I chose to work here. If they don't then company very mean.

Yeah!

 

[trickpony1]

My guess is you haven't been in management very long to make a statement that the company is the greatest organization in the world.
Your comment about "personal achievement", roughly translated, could mean "if I can outperform my fellow management person and make him look bad I will zoom up the ladder of success and be happy". In 28 years, I've seen more cut throats and backstabbing occur in management than in the rank and file.
There is a reason why management persons seems to leave the company more than the average drone.
There's only so much room at the top and when everyone is fighting, scratching and kicking to get to the top the end result is discarded people.
I know some supervisors who will never accept a promotion to a manager level for this reason.
Sorry, no "wine and roses" today.

 

[mattwtrs]

Trickpony1
Lets hope the young ones read and remember what you have said! I wonder why we all can't be friends!

 

[tieguy]

My guess is you haven't been in management very long to make a statement that the company is the greatest organization in the world.

Realistically it could be the greatest organization in the world, realistically it could be that your perspective that it is not the greatest is screwed up. Or it could be that in his opinion looking at the companies he has seen UPS is the greatest. The word greatest is usually used in opinion type statements and as such are kinda hard to dispute.

"Your comment about "personal achievement", roughly translated, could mean "if I can outperform my fellow management person and make him look bad I will zoom up the ladder of success and be happy".

Trick it definitely could mean that it could also mean that that if he outperforms his fellow managment people by doing a better job of motivating his work group to succeed. Trick it does appear though that you seem to think someone outperforming another can only do so by some evil means. Does anyone ever do a better job than someone else simply by doing a better job?

"In 28 years, I've seen more cut throats and backstabbing occur in management than in the rank and file."

thats because your rank and file always does their backstabbing on the sly. They either call us direct when they are on route, call us direct from home or wait until there is no one else around. Once they recieve their special favor from us they then play stupid while you throw around charges of favoritism.

There is a reason why management persons seems to leave the company more than the average drone.

LOL, could you please tell us what an average drone is?

There's only so much room at the top and when everyone is fighting, scratching and kicking to get to the top the end result is discarded people.

Now you have me confused. Are you now talking about UPS management or teamsters union management? Are we talking about UPS or about teamsters cutting each others throats to get the presidency?

I know some supervisors who will never accept a promotion to a manager level for this reason.

Did you ever think they meant they would never take a promotion to manager because they aren't talented enough or because they don't want all the extra responsibility. Now you have to expect these sups will not tell you they are too stupid to do the job but they might tell you they are too smart to take the job. You have to read between the lines.

Sorry, no "wine and roses" today

You're right just the normal wine and cheese.

 

[RetiredandLovingIT]

My guess is you haven't been in management very long to make a statement that the company is the greatest organization in the world.

I am hourly (by choice). I stated UPS is "one" of the greatest corporations in the world. Please pay attention!

Your comment about "personal achievement", roughly translated, could mean "if I can outperform my fellow management person and make him look bad I will zoom up the ladder of success and be happy". In 28 years, I've seen more cut throats and backstabbing occur in management than in the rank and file.

You made an assumption here. You are also assuming everyone has an ulterior motive and agenda for this "personal achievement". Why can't it be just to go to work every day and make an honest, solid contribution? I believe you've played that game far too many times and quite possibly lost. Yes, within UPS there is a very strong political climate, full of everything you describe. Not all choose to play that game...

There is a reason why management persons seems to leave the company more than the average drone.
There's only so much room at the top and when everyone is fighting, scratching and kicking to get to the top the end result is discarded people.
I know some supervisors who will never accept a promotion to a manager level for this reason.

Not everyone chooses to play, only those which aspire to ascend. The "Peter Principle" eventually stops those at the appropriate management level. And I do understand why some might not want to take that manager level promotion. It all depends on one's own personal constitution. I still stand by my statement that UPS is one of the greatest corporations in the world today.

As for talk of TSG unionization, well, I have made my opinion perfectly clear...

 

[tonyexpress]

Mr. Ihateups,

Were you hit on the head as a child? Perhaps counseling would be a direction to consider.

Even by your name how can anyone take you seriously????

 

[Incensed, again]

Mr. Ihateups,

Were you hit on the head as a child? Perhaps counseling would be a direction to consider.

Even by your name how can anyone take you seriously????

It seems that folks either love UPS or hate it. There are guys on here that think UPS can do no wrong. Others think it can do no right. I think it is somewhere in the middle. Since going public, maybe the middle has moved a little more towards the wrong.

I have met few people in my 9 years who didn't start at UPS right out of high school, or out of college. Most of us know nothing else. It is kinda like a 40 year old woman with no kids trying to tell a 25 year old with triplets how to pottytrain them. Yeah, she has the right to her opinion, but it is based on limited knowledge.

Most of you company-line guys probably don't know any better because you haven't worked anywhere else. If you did, you probably had crappy jobs before UPS. You cannot compare that to now. The proper comparison is a management job at UPS vs. a management job at another company -- a technician job at ups..., a driver job at UPS vs...., etc.

UPS is a great place, but it has few great jobs. The prestige of UPS is great, the benefits are great, the pay is great, but, hell, this is not all there is to your working life.

What so many people continue to argue, and what so many others clearly miss, is that while UPS is great, most UPS jobs are not.

As far as a union in TSG, I don't know how it would all work out. It just might be worse, but neither you or I can know this. However, I can tell you that if you think TSG is currently based on personal achievement, you really know nothing about the department. It is really based on a union-like model.

Here is the real deal; technicians are all paid about the same. The best guy maybe makes 50 cent more than the worst. A new guy gets big raises in his first two years (it is called "progression"). This get his wages up very quickly to what the senior folks make. When it comes to technicians getting higher education or certification, the company doesn't recognize it any different than if he cleaned a storage room really spiffy -- seriously, it makes no difference. It is sometimes seen as a threat, knowledge is power.

Technicians are encouraged to seek a management promotion if advancement is their goal. You see, there are only two grades for technicians -- tech 1 (grade 10) and senior tech (grade 11). Some people never get senior tech, others with little or no skill get it quick. While there are guidelines to follow for this promotion, it is never based on ability. It is based on popularity, usually. To be honest, it is based on basic ability, not exceptional. Most exceptional technicians are far too smart and analytical and are seen as problems for management. They question things that don't appear logical, and when their questions are met with stonewalling or simple logic, they lose faith.

The quick fix on this board is to tell those who question things to quit. Anyone who feels uneasy about a policy or seeks clarification are considered unpatriotic. You can love Brown and question policy. You can love your country and question your government. damn, there is nothing un-UPS or un-American about this.

Look, I am not trying to put anybody's view down completely, I just think certain people on this board think they know far more than they really understand. I have a couple of division manager friends who tell me things about their job that completely floors me everytime. I just didn't know what they really did or what they go through.

I freely admit to not knowing everything about delivery, about the carwash, about feeders, about flying our jets, about selling to customers. I just wish others on this board would own up to not being experts in every area of UPS.

You know what you know, and you guess at what you don't. Please stop guessing. Even UPSers with bad attitudes have truths to tell. And I would bet that every one of them has something decent to say about UPS. Don't dismiss their opinion just because it differs.

 

[tonyexpress]

Incensed, again

Thanks for your post it was much more civil than mine. I posted from a knee jerk reaction and got my emotions into my response instead of my head.

I worked for UPS for almost 27 years both houly and management and agree that there is both good and bad in both the houly and management ranks.

IHATEUPS,

Your post was so one sided it set me off. I apoligize for my personal attack and hope you will not think I'm am one of your old school sups trying to hammer on you cause I don't want to listen.

I hope you will see that there are good people at UPS that really adhere to those policies whether you are union or not.

 

[tieguy]

It seems that folks either love UPS or hate it. There are guys on here that think UPS can do no wrong. Others think it can do no right. I think it is somewhere in the middle. Since going public, maybe the middle has moved a little more towards the wrong.

I have met few people in my 9 years who didn't start at UPS right out of high school, or out of college. Most of us know nothing else. It is kinda like a 40 year old woman with no kids trying to tell a 25 year old with triplets how to pottytrain them. Yeah, she has the right to her opinion, but it is based on limited knowledge.

Most of you company-line guys probably don't know any better because you haven't worked anywhere else. If you did, you probably had crappy jobs before UPS.

I think you really sell us all short on this point. UPS drivers for instance have a huge benifit in that as they deliver each day to other businesses they have a chance to see how others live and work. They have a chance to field the hundreds of questions they get from people looking for a chance to work at UPS and they have a chance to compare their employment to others. From my experience that assessment would be we work harder than most, compensated much better and overall the job is better than most we see. That exposure to other employement opportunities could also give that driver the chance to jump to a better job if he thought it was out there. You rarely see that happen.

 

[Agree with both of you]

I think you really sell us all short on this point. UPS drivers for instance have a huge benifit in that as they deliver each day to other businesses they have a chance to see how others live and work. They have a chance to field the hundreds of questions they get from people looking for a chance to work at UPS and they have a chance to compare their employment to others. From my experience that assessment would be we work harder than most, compensated much better and overall the job is better than most we see. That exposure to other employement opportunities could also give that driver the chance to jump to a better job if he thought it was out there. You rarely see that happen.

I think you are both right. I think UPS drivers are paid well and get taken care of well by UPS in relation to benefits and job security. However, I too don't know many drivers who like their job. I think most drivers realize that they are paid way beyond what they can earn virtually anywhere else. In this way, UPS treats them great. As far as any UPS driver liking what they go through to get those wages and benefits, it just is not true for all. Some drivers are happy, most are not. When you have mortgages, children, etc., you do what you have to. That doesn't at all mean you like it.

The choice is either taking a lot of grief by a company that is wealthy, healthy, and good at what they do, or go somewhere else. Like one of the guys said, UPS is great, the job ain't. Separate benefits and wages from job satisfaction and the feeling of being treated well (as a person) and you have two sides that don't make a great job, just one that is ok.

There is no law or rule-of-life that says everyone in america will love their job (see McDonalds, Walmart, add your own). Conversely, there is no law that says everyone has to love their job.

This board seems to be available for everyone to share their opinions and feelings about our company. Some folks appear to think it is just available as a pep-rally for UPS. If this is the case, why not just have UPS'ers.com and leave it at that. Aldus Huxley gave us a blueprint for this in his book Brave New World. Hold on,.......... I'm taking my soma right now -- ahhhhhhh.

UPS is a great company. Maybe if we all start our posts this way, it will purchase a small right to then share our opinions. Honestly, I really think everyone on this board does know that UPS is a great company.

 

[toonertoo]

Pretty well said, now if you registered we could vote for you.
Ups is a great company, we all know it.
And you cant beat the pay, even though many of UPS hourly have degrees they do not move on for the reasons you listed. You may get stuck in life and need to stay. There are other ways to make a living, and many would choose that, but until we decide to make that jump, we do stay. And most of us love it, the responsibility of driving a 80K truck, isnt given to just any yahoo, and for the most part we are respected for that alone. And we do our jobs to the best of our ability, union or not, if you arent trying, you will be gone.
You can go to any company website, and people will have complaints....if it was always fun it wouldnt be called work,
From my perspective, I have seen jobs I would rather be doing, but they dont pay.........I see people who work hard, or think they are and I listen to them complain about pushing paperwork, when I am pushing tons of work. But everyone has their threshold for physical work, and tedious work, Ill take physical and money over that.
My bosses job isnt fun , he probaly makes more, but I wouldnt trade my truck for his desk, any day. And many days I would bet he would trade places in a heart beat. And many days I bet he dreams of interviewing for a different company, and some do, and good for them. Until you find the better place you plod along, doing what you do, and looking around at the job market, most days it doesnt seem so bad, then some days it looks like the worst place in the world to be. I didnt start here fresh out of high school, I was 26, I had worked many jobs, I had 13 one record yr...And never got fired from any, just decided, Nah this aint it. And moved on. Ive worked several second jobs while at UPS and I always stay. And at this point in my life, I enjoy my vacations, my seniority, and the respect I recieve on the road. And even on a bad day, it is probaly still better than most places. JMHO

 

[DS]

Tooner,you pretty well covered it all there.Like you, I had several jobs before I started as a package driver 15 years ago.At times I really think its my saviour .as otherwise, being over 50 now,I would miss the exercise I get every day and probobly get fat and expire prematurely .
OK heres what I think
UPS relies on self motivation when it comes to management, and it often leads to harassment.I`ve seen many a good driver fired because the current sup decided this driver was a no-good and simply fired them for some silly infraction,only to see the driver return a year later after that supervisor has been either fired,relocated,or promoted.

But I`ve seen hundreds of mngmt people come and go and I think its even worse in suit world.They can send you wherever they want,anytime,they can promote or demote you at thier discretion.

UPS is a huge company that only cares about money.
I go through bouts of either being a proud upser
to being ashamed to be one

Its NOT what Jim Casey had in mind by a long shot.

 

[tonyexpress]

Let's bring things into perspective...

I'd venture to say that most people don't really care for their jobs. In fact most people are in a day to day rut, living week to week. They are only working at their jobs to support themselves and take time off. Ever heard the song "Everybody's working for the weekends"?

For example: if you were to ask a UPS driver if he likes his job I'd be willing to bet that over 50% would say "YES". The question is does he or she like it for the right reasons?? Does he or she like the physical aspect, the social aspect with customers, the being their own boss on their own, outdoors, the health benefits, the pay? You'd probably have to say that if you were making 50k-75k a year doing this, all isnt bad. By the way this same senario can be applied to Supervisors, Managers, Division level and above. Basically it can be applied anyone, in any job, at any company.

View # 2 says B.S. My back hurts, my sup sucks, the <st1 ="">Union</st1> never backs me up, doing the same old lugging of packages around is really getting old. This is where you can add your own reason of why you might hate your job.

Could it just possibly be a state of mind? After all, UPS has been around for almost 100 years. Other companies have the same challenge... Keeping their employees excited about coming to work everyday.

Another thing... It also boils down to choice!! We all make our own decisions when it comes to accepting a job or not. When the lifestyle and the spouse get used to that paycheck it even makes it harder to leave, if you want to.

If you have passion about succeeding at UPS, or somewhere else, doing something you're actually happy (passionate) about, thats what you should set your sights on if you aren't satisfied with your current situation.

But to say that UPS or GM or Starbucks or Microsoft sucks is really not their fault. After all, they've done what they can to provide you with something to choose from.

Easier said than done, but it had to be said..

Ultimately the choice is ups to us..<o =""></o>

 

[Uncle Rico]

Very well said last 2 posters. The ft sups that I worked with wayback when were in their own trap. They somehow moved up the ladder without a degree under their belt. Who is going to pay them the jack they are pulling in at a different company? They know their plight, they are stuck counting the days, years until they retire. It sucks going to a job that you feel stuck in. My second day as a ft hub sup, at a meeting my manager asked me if I had a college degree. I emphatically said "Yeah, don't you?" Everyone of those chumps turned on me. I didn't tell them it took 6.5 years and 20k in debt to do it and that it was a death bed promise to my father. I ran into more of those s in mgmnt than I'd like to remember. Their harrassing bravado is bs, but that's all the people I ran into had in mgmnt ranks, save a few. I, in the words of Mr. T, almost pitied the fools.

 

[Too lazy to login]

I think you really sell us all short on this point. UPS drivers for instance have a huge benifit in that as they deliver each day to other businesses they have a chance to see how others live and work. They have a chance to field the hundreds of questions they get from people looking for a chance to work at UPS and they have a chance to compare their employment to others. From my experience that assessment would be we work harder than most, compensated much better and overall the job is better than most we see. That exposure to other employement opportunities could also give that driver the chance to jump to a better job if he thought it was out there. You rarely see that happen.

Tie,
I can't say my experience can let me say this statement is completely accurate. I've worked in other industries where UPS delivered to and I haven't seen where they have the time for that much socialization. The drivers I encountered were polite, but all business. My guess is they really have to hustle to perform their duties and don't have alot of time for chit-chat or sight-seeing.

 

[laborer]

Well said Incensed!

 

[wily_old_vet]

Tie,
I can't say my experience can let me say this statement is completely accurate. I've worked in other industries where UPS delivered to and I haven't seen where they have the time for that much socialization. The drivers I encountered were polite, but all business. My guess is they really have to hustle to perform their duties and don't have alot of time for chit-chat or sight-seeing.

You would be amazed at how much chit chat can happen while pkgs are being scannned and signed for. But it also comes down to the driver. Some are outgoing and will talk and others who won't. But while the time is short that they spend at a stop the opportunity is there.