UPS offer on the Table for takeover of Central States fund !

[JonFrum]

Not cruel at all. What is cruel is the lack of concern and help from the other Teamster pension funds (like the one in NJ), are we not all part of the same union?

We are all part of the same Union, but we belong to about 21 seperate, regional pension plans. These plans are legally seperate from the Teamsters, and legally seperate from each other. Each of these plans has a Trust Fund that is run by a Board of Trustees that have a Fiduciary Duty to run their fund *solely* in the interest of its own participants. If the trustees of any fund tried to use the fund's assets to help another fund, they would be convicted of a crime and possibly jailed. ERISA is very strict.

The only hope of one fund helping another is by a merger of a *small*, troubled fund into a larger, financially healthy fund. Even here, the trustees of the larger fund would have to prove that the merger was *truly* in the best interests of the larger, healthy fund's active participants and beneficiaries. Unfortunately, Central States is the most financially troubled fund, and the second largest fund of Teamsters/UPSers. Only the Western Conference fund is larger, and although it is now 100% funded, that's partly because it made cuts in benefit accrual rates as well. Thus even the merger option isn't in play.

 

[JonFrum]

Maybe recieving a lump sum pay-out of pension earned to invest as we see fit could be something to think about.

I'm sure many pension plan participants, especially those in the Central States plan, wish they could get ahold of all the monies contributed on their behalf by UPS over their careers, and put the money in their own personal IRA or 401(k).

Unfortunately, this is not a possibility. ERISA and plan rules prohibit it. The only way to get a lump-sum payout is to retire normally, and even then you will probably only get a small portion of your lifetime benefit up front. Here in the New England fund, for example, the maximum lump-sum at retirement is 10%. Also, some retirees who's entire furure benefit is very small, say $3,500 or less in total, will be paid the full amount as a lump-sum just as a convienience, to save on postage and handling.

Pension plans are deliberately set up to pay benefits at retirement in monthly installments. Withdrawing early, either as an individual, or as a group, is intentionally discouraged, if not made impossible.

 

[scratch]

I went to my Local 728 meeting today, and this was the big news discussed. One of the negotiators is a member of our Local, and he told us all he could about it, with the exception of what the gag order doesn't allow. Tuesday, the company came in and proposed giving 4.6 billion dollars to buy out the UPS portion of CS. 30 and Out at any age would be restored, and this new fund would be run by both UPS and the IBT. This meeting lasted 45 minutes, and the Teamsters were expecting the new pension plan. After the meeting broke up, they spent hours going over all the possible scenarios of what will happen if this takes place. Much cussing involved.

The big point that was made was what does the company want in return?
What will be the give backs on our part be? The company will want a lot of concessions to do this, make no mistake about that. A lot of changes in the language in the contract will be made, on the National and Supplementals. And I will add, the Freight line Teamsters from other companies are upset about this.

We also had a Pension Planning Meeting afterwords with a CS Rep. Right now, the actuaries are going over the company proposal to figure out what will happen if UPS pulls out. CS is currently running their figures with UPS continued involvement. The CS Plan investments performed at about 10% this last year, about the same as the year before. They have changed the re-employment rules for retirees, there is now a phone number you can call and get an instant approval on working a different job as long as it is not Teamster work.

 

[Fullhouse]

Rocky,

UPS is legally obligated to fund the UPS portion of Central States' unfunded vested liability. As soon as UPS withdraws from the fund, either by switching to a separate UPS-Teamsters fund or to an APWA fund, Central States will bill them. TDU is reporting the Withdrawal Liability that UPS will owe to Central States as roughly $4 billion. In effect, UPS, or any departing employer, must make Central States 100% funded, at least with regard to its own employees' vested benefits. Employers can not walk away from their debts. ERISA doesn't allow it.

UPS does not owe anything for non-UPSers, either active or retired.

I posted hall announcement of the new UPS pension plan proposal, and TDU's comments, here. . . .
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/ups-subsidizing-non-ups-pensions.27725/

Just got back from a union meeting today and one of the BAs' stated that there are roughly 33,000 UPSers in the CS plan. So my question is "Why does it take 4 billion to just cover the UPS participants?" Sorry didn't think of that question at the meeting.
Another one of his statements was "A majority of company's that fund Central States have less than a 100 employees that participate in CS." "Big company's are a minority in CS" and UPS is the largest contributor per person in the fund.
When other contracts come up I hope they (IBT)ask for a $2 hr hike in the company contributions.Everyone needs to pay their share. Right Red?
One more comment by the BA "UPS will not give up the part time employees!"

 

[scratch]

Just got back from a union meeting today and one of the BAs' stated that there are roughly 33,000 UPSers in the CS plan. So my question is "Why does it take 4 billion to just cover the UPS participants?" Sorry didn't think of that question at the meeting.

Fullhouse,
Your BA quoted wrong figures for CS. Roughly 170,000 actively putting money in, over 200,000 taking money out. In '97, UPS figured their share was 500 million to pay to get out of CS, now its over 4 billion.

 

[wildgoose]

Easy, Goose...don't want you to collapse of a heart attack . I'm a pt'er and the starting wage has to go up in '08. I'm already working with people I wouldn't let roam a retail store without a security guard keeping an eye on them. The applicant pool SUCKS!! I understand the retirement worries but if you don't have a younger worker paying into that retirement plan after your retirement ...then what? -Rocky

Hey Rocky i just had a physical done and my stats are pretty darn good for my age why wouldn`t the younger ones be paying into the fund ? The partimers are in ups fund now ?
Its for full time people there poppie ! Only unless the company starts to slide will you have that worry !

 

[705red]

Just got back from a union meeting today and one of the BAs' stated that there are roughly 33,000 UPSers in the CS plan. So my question is "Why does it take 4 billion to just cover the UPS participants?" Sorry didn't think of that question at the meeting.
Another one of his statements was "A majority of company's that fund Central States have less than a 100 employees that participate in CS." "Big company's are a minority in CS" and UPS is the largest contributor per person in the fund.
When other contracts come up I hope they (IBT)ask for a $2 hr hike in the company contributions.Everyone needs to pay their share. Right Red?
One more comment by the BA "UPS will not give up the part time employees!"

Every one should be contributimg similar to each other that i agree on 100%. Ups will be lucky to get away with only 4 billion, because in order to leave the fund you must fund it to 100%. Thats the only way to ensure that the companies stay, and thats why you will never see a 100% funded plan. If there was no penalty for leaving why would these companies be forced to stay. As you see now abf and others will hop out without the penalty because ups just fully funded it!

 

[wildgoose]

according to tdu.org they want to reinstate 25 out 2500 month 30 out 3000 35 at 3500 also can the under 62 penalty it would be jointly administered by ups and teamsters

Oh now i can sleep at night knowing the teamsters will help in overseeing our pension1. I wouldn`t want them watching my dog with their past track record ! If this pension reform is true there will be more details surfacing soon. Also there must not be any restrictions on working after retiring ! The cost for the teamsters in not taking care of this situation from the start.

 

[scratch]

Every one should be contributimg similar to each other that i agree on 100%. Ups will be lucky to get away with only 4 billion, because in order to leave the fund you must fund it to 100%. Thats the only way to ensure that the companies stay, and thats why you will never see a 100% funded plan. If there was no penalty for leaving why would these companies be forced to stay. As you see now abf and others will hop out without the penalty because ups just fully funded it!

705red,
UPS doesn't have to fully fund all of Central States to leave it, just what covers the retired UPS employees in it, which is about twenty five per cent. And yes, ABF wants to get out too. The details will be interesting to see, because the IBT has to answer to all the Teamsters, not just those that work at UPS. Another thing, the Master Freight Contact comes up before the UPS National does, which is opposite of the way it has been the last few times. Normally, the Freight Teamsters want what we get, its the other way around this time.

 

[RockyRogue]

Hey Rocky i just had a physical done and my stats are pretty darn good for my age why wouldn`t the younger ones be paying into the fund ? The partimers are in ups fund now ?
Its for full time people there poppie ! Only unless the company starts to slide will you have that worry !

Goose, I'm starting to think you like sparring with me! The younger ones would be paying into the new UPS-only fund. That would cause a catastrophic collapse of CS because of the ratio of people retired to those still working! P/T'ers are indeed in a UPS-only fund, administrated by UPS and its doing gang-busters in terms of funding, I hear. Not really interested in seeing hard numbers. It'll just give me a headache. CS is for ft'ers, yes. I saw somewhere on here that, if p/t'ers were in CS, the funding level would increase quite a bit. GAHHHH!! I hate being made to sound like a economist! I'm done for now! I have to see if I can find some Tylenol for this headache I'm developing. -Rocky

 

[Fullhouse]

Fullhouse,
Your BA quoted wrong figures for CS. Roughly 170,000 actively putting money in, over 200,000 taking money out. In '97, UPS figured their share was 500 million to pay to get out of CS, now its over 4 billion.

Scratch Our BA is on the negotiating commitee. Think about it for a sec.I remember seeing some numbers stating that there were 147,000 active participants and like around 150,000 retired. Maybe you missunderstood me. If I didn't make myself clear there are 33,000 UPS employees that are enrolled in the CS fund. Also I've read that for every 1 UPS retiree there 6 UPS working employees. So lets see for a rough estimate that would be a litttle over 5000 retirees.

 

[Bill]

OH, NO! What happens to Engineer79 and all others that tout the APWA as the panacea that cures all ills??????

In case you are wondering, I am still here reading all the information before coming to conclusions as many of you do. It appears that UPS wants to buy out of Central States so that its employees can receive what we are due. UPS is tired of contributing more and more each year, but their workers receive less and less. It doesn't make much financial sense. Do you agree? If the Teamsters continue on their present course of running/sinking (you choose) the pension fund, the insurance fund will kick in in a few years, and we all will receive a measly $1000 for our retirement after working 30 years or longer. One of the Trustees of the pension fund has stated in writing that the CS pension fund can not be fixed. You can verify this information on another thread on this forum.. Also, I have a document from the CS annual report saying that administration fees for 2005 were $120,123,218. Would you agree that this is beyond excessive? Are the Teamsters grabbing a nice piece of the pie for themselves? That is only for the pension plan. The Teamsters took an additional $62,070,842 in administration fees for the Health and Welfare benefits. It looks as if the only ones receiving benefits are the fat cats who run the Teamsters.

 

[Bill]

What happens in 25 years and we arent as big then as we are today who will float my pension for me?

Heres a quick comparison. Lets say we make $50,000 a year, now ups will give us $300,000 to go away, where will we be in the 7th year? Its seems like a real quick fix with no long term motivation that might criple the whole union movement.

The Teamsters already crippled the union as they mismanaged everything they handle. the Teamsters have no solutions, but to make additional cuts, and force us to work more years for less money. Great plan! By forcing us to work longer, all this does is delay the problem, because in 10 years when we all start to retire, the problem will be worse that it is now. What will the Teamsters propose then? Should we be happy to accept $1000 per month when the insurance kicks in?

 

[scratch]

Fullhouse,
I did misunderstand you about that 33,000 figure, and I am one of those! I dug out my notes frm a year ago when I attended a CS Retirement seminar like the one I went to today. Out of the CS Rep's mouth, 160,000 active Teamsters putting money in, and 220,000 Retirees taking money out. One of our BA's is on that same negotiating committee that yours is on, and he explained everything that happened Tuesday when UPS made this Pension Proposal.

 

[705red]

The Teamsters already crippled the union as they mismanaged everything they handle. the Teamsters have no solutions, but to make additional cuts, and force us to work more years for less money. Great plan! By forcing us to work longer, all this does is delay the problem, because in 10 years when we all start to retire, the problem will be worse that it is now. What will the Teamsters propose then? Should we be happy to accept $1000 per month when the insurance kicks in?

E79 your only looking at the short term fix to this, whats the long term effect going to be. Im sure you probably dont care about the long term goals due to your selfish apwa points of view. Were discussing the seriousness here and you still badger the teamsters by runnig off at the mouth. It seems they cant do any thing right in your eyes. Unless you plan on bringing good choices to this topic leave this post for educated discussions and go post elsewhere.

 

[krash]

79
The Teamsters are not CS. It's a separate entity. CS manages the fund and I would imagine have administrative cost. There employees do not work for free. Now I don't know if these figure are excessive or not. I guess one would have to look and see what others charge that are the size of CS. And isn't health an welfare and retirement one in the same?

 

[SteveOUPS]

I have hated my job for over 3 years now. The pension went sour, then PAS...absolutley hated this job... I was voting "NO" on the contract reguardless what was offered! Until I heard of rumors about this offer. I will goto work on Monday a humbled employee, I will work hard and represent this company well. This changes everything for me !!!

 

[krash]

Thats nothing. I hated pkg for the entire time driving. Then I went into feeder and now I go to work with a smile on my face and a song in my heart

 

[wildgoose]

Thats nothing. I hated pkg for the entire time driving. Then I went into feeder and now I go to work with a smile on my face and a song in my heart

Let me guess AC/DC rocking on out ! Or Peter Frampton "Do you feel like i do" ! Cause feeders makes me feels that way too ! So Krash we do have some things in common - Biscuits n gravy too ?

 

[wildgoose]

79
The Teamsters are not CS. It's a separate entity. CS manages the fund and I would imagine have administrative cost. There employees do not work for free. Now I don't know if these figure are excessive or not. I guess one would have to look and see what others charge that are the size of CS. And isn't health an welfare and retirement one in the same?

I hear around 34 million in administrative and 80 million in watching it ? Watching it go down !