UPS's "Final Offer" Vs What We Won By Striking In 1997 Memory Lane

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by anonymous6, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    i dug this out of my files. major highlights....issue , then ups's final offer then what we won.

    (issue: FT jobs) offer..... 1000 new jobs over 5 yrs............. what we got 10,000 new FT jobs over 5 yrs.

    (issue: subcontracting)........... ups offer. expand use of subcontractors to do feeder work........ we won no subcontracting work except peak.

    (issue: package car work) offer......... use pt air drivers for any "time definate" deliveries........ we won no shift of package car work to part-timers.

    (issue: wages.)..... ups offer......... FT $1 for 5 yrs....... what we won........ FT $3.10 for 5 years.

    (issue: pensions)....force all upsers into COMPANY controlled plan..... what we won..... stay in Teamster plans with equal or better benefits.

    (issue: part-timers).... ups offer... increase in guaranteed hrs. ........what we won....... 3.5 hr guarantee

    (issue: over 70s) offer... ups can increase wt limit above 150 pounds at any time without union agreement....what we won......... no right to increase wt limit above 150 pounds without union agreement. right to teamster help and lifting devices over 70 pounds.

    (issue: Health and Welfare) offer... push all upsrs into managed care plans and HMOs. eliminate family coverage co-pay for all new hires. what we won......... maintain current plans.

    (issue: Right to Honor Picket lines)..... ups offer... force ups workers to scab on other union memebers......what we won.... maintain our right to honor picket lines.

    (issue: innocent to proven guilty.)'s final offer..... EXPAND the list of infractions called "cardinal sins" where innocent til proven guilty does not apply.......what we won.... maintain current language

    i am not making any judgements or comments about this file. just presenting it as historical fact from 1997.
  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Amazing! Union won everything and UPS won nothing.
  3. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    Wars and Battles - UPS may have given up a battle or two....however...when it comes to winning the War...

    Fast-forward to 2013

    1) Part-time still starting at $8.50/hr. - 18 months for family benefits...
    2) Lost numerous FT 22.3 Jobs
    3) Innocent Until Proven Guilty - Central Region Supplement Article 17 Sections a, i, e. "Discharge and Suspension for "Other Serious Offenses".
    4) UPS Central States Pension now called the UPS/IBT plan
    5) 9.5 Language....:sick:
    6) etc....
  4. TimeForChange

    TimeForChange Active Member

    So, what is the major difference between now and then, other than 16 years of time? Hmmm....

    Welllllll, lemme tell ya.


    The Teamsters were led by General President Ron Carey. He was a long time officer at big Local 804 in New York city, which was primarily comprised of UPS employees. Ron had a history of being militant. In other words, he didn't just talk tough, then settle for peanuts, then claim a historic victory. He formed a detailed game plan, then heavily involved the members, worked the media, called a strike, then won HUGE.

    2013 (and the previous two contracts):

    The Teamsters were "led" by someone whom many or most UPS Teamsters who voted, voted against. He became General President for one reason: Because half of his DNA came out of his daddy's little weiner. After being born, he was never a shop steward. He was never a Local Union employee in any capacity. He was never a Joint Council officer. He was never an International organizer, representative, or officer. Since becoming GP, he has never recommended or led a strike. His hobbies include talking tough, then settling for a mixture of some small gains and some big losses. Other hobbies are collecting a big salary and a big housing allowance. He also collects power over non-believers within the Union. He is allergic to fighting and actually beating Mom and Pop donut shops, much less International powerhouse companies like UPS.
  5. Evil

    Evil Active Member

    You forgot to mention that Jimbo Felipe Hoffa was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He's also an Ivy School graduate, not because of his good grades, but because his rich notorious father paid for it from the hefty salary he paid himself from Teamsters dues.

    Lets not forget that prior to becoming a Teamster, Jimbo Felipe Hoffa was a corporate lawyer. Not a very good one, but indeed a corporate lawyer that defended corporate greed. Lets never forget that!
  6. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    UPS's "Final Offer" Vs What We Won By Striking In 1997 Memory Lane

    You forgot to mention that Carey was a cheat and a lier. He screwed the warehouse division out of jobs. White Rose workers lots all jobs because of his "tough" stance. Hoffa went on to labor law. Are you saying we would have been better off with Pope? Yeah, her locals finances have an amazing track record. 1.75 million down the tubes in 5 years. Benefits from another locals plan. Continue to lose members down to 1006. Funny how she isn't on the TDU 100K club. Ooohhhhh that's right, TDU raised that after Sandy crossed over to 110K. That dictator pays her own secretary/treasurer 26K a year? No wonder why her finances are F'd.
  7. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    Re: UPS's "Final Offer" Vs What We Won By Striking In 1997 Memory Lane

    Ron Carey (labor leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Stink.... Regardless of what you may dislike about Carey, I personally admired his leadership against UPS in 1997. If you read his Wikipedia biography, you cannot help to respect him for what he did and stood for. Besides...Carey was exonerated from any wrongdoing by a federal jury.

    "He ran for re-election in 1996 and won, but in 1997 federal investigators discovered that the Carey campaign had engaged in an illegal donation kickback scheme to raise more than $700,000 for the 1996 re-election effort.[SUP][3][/SUP] His re-election was overturned, Carey was disqualified from running for Teamsters president again, and he was subsequently expelled from the union for life.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] Although a federal jury ultimately cleared him of all wrongdoing in the scandal, the lifetime ban remained in place until his death.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7]"

    That said, I do believe we have the best available representatives (Hoffa/hall) for our UPS negotiations at this time. If hall can only be half of what Carey was, I believe we have a chance to secure a fair and decent contract. (Note...I did not say Great contract)..
  8. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I'm just going off memory but that doesn't line up with the paper I saw (wish I had saved it but oh well).
    I'm remembering a 7 year contract with a 70 cent raise every other year combined with profit sharing.
  9. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    people have to remember that UPS's "Best and final offer" was the best they had to offer. each offer before that was much weaker just as their first offer this year was very weak.

    please remember that the company ( non human ) does not have our ( humans ) best interests in mind. keep contacting your local to voice those interests.

    learning from 1997, 2002, and 2008, we should ask for as much as possible, make a compromise, and then expect the company to wittle away at the gains during the length of the contract.
  10. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    Re: UPS's "Final Offer" Vs What We Won By Striking In 1997 Memory Lane

    More Wikipedia Information on Ron Carey:

    "Carey continued to protest the lifetime ban on Teamster membership for many years. He argued that his court vindication had proven the IRB wrong for expelling him, and that a lifetime ban should be applied only to those Teamsters associated with organized crime....
    In 2007, Carey was researching and writing a book based on his experiences.[SUP][118][/SUP] He was critical of the policies of his successor, particularly the centralization of authority in the international headquarters, business-model organizing, and giving Teamsters officials permission to draw multiple salaries again. Ron Carey died of lung cancer at New York Hospital Queens in New York City at age 72 on December 11, 2008."

    Really can you bash a man that did so much for organized labor? Also, I believe the fact that he was against Teamster officials from drawing multiple salaries also speaks something of his character.

    You continue to call him a cheat and a liar when in fact he was found not guilty on all charges... This man deserves much more in "life and death" than to go down in history as a criminal... RIP Ron Carey.....

  11. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    Sad but true orangeputeh......After reading more about the history of the 1997 strike. and all that Carey did to prepare for it, we are in NO WAY prepared to do battle with Big Brown like we were back then.
  12. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    Wins? 10,000 FT jobs? Would love to see an actual accurate number of how many FT 22.3 jobs were created in the past 15 years, including the shell game and slashing. Some of these points are suspicious, and most of them UPS knew they'd eventually win. How're those pension plans working out?
  13. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    Re: UPS's "Final Offer" Vs What We Won By Striking In 1997 Memory Lane

    He called him a lier, big difference. That's someone who lies down and waits, preparing for ambush. ;)
  14. Areyoukiddinme

    Areyoukiddinme best 2 weeks ever

    "last and final offer"!!wasn't that by Oz the almighty?
    i bet that line isn't used again.
    my motto"leave the gun, take the cannoli".
  15. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    thank you. i'm glad people are doing some research.
  16. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    i copied the OP from the actual paper that was distributed to us after the strike was settled. what we won is what we won. what we GOT is a matter of debate which i also mentioned in a previous post. that is why I suggested we aim high.
  17. Inthegame

    Inthegame Well-Known Member

    Your memory is only a little fuzzy... UPS proposed a seven year deal with .30 every other year with bonuses every even year. That was later changed to the "last, best and final" offer of $3060 profit share in '97, .50 in '98, .50 in '99, undetermined profit share in 2000 and .50 in '01. That would equal a $1.50 base increase. Instead Ron Carey and hall said no thanks and settled on no bonuses but .60 wage bumps for 4 years with a .70 last year, which translated to a $3.10 base increase full timers have enjoyed every year since.
    Thank you and R.I.P. Ron Carey and thank you hall for past and present leadership.
  18. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    After a full review, my bad, sorry. The angst is there from a few ex: of what were "gains" that could perhaps be seen as losses. There's no one to blame but Hoffa. Also, weren't there changes in 9.5 language that were made without voting on? I don't think that was '97 language, perhaps 2002 between '07? Perhaps that was a hall thing. Either way, another example of what should be a "win" turning into something different than envisioned.
  19. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    UPS's "Final Offer" Vs What We Won By Striking In 1997 Memory Lane

    I actually didn't mind Carey at all and I said that in other posts. I was making a point by saying he lied. Every situation is based on individual perspective. Democrats smear Republicans, Republicans smear Democrats. There are Carey guys and their are Hoffa guys. There were hall bashers everywhere on this site the last few months. Yes he is with Hoffa now but he was also Carey's chief negotiator in 97. One guy on here blasted Hoffa for supporting and donating to the Democratic party. "Carey vowed to reduce the general president's salary, end the practice of permitting union officers to draw multiple salaries, no longer endorse Republicans for president, and seek federal legislation mandating universal health care." NO LONGER ENDORSE REPUBLICANS. It goes on and on. Forever and ever. Why can't people support just their union? You don't have to agree with every decision. Say what you want but I blame hall for me making 32 bucks an hour today. Not Carey, not Hoffa.
  20. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    "For union members who want higher wages, less work, and better conditions, the historical evidence suggests that a strategy of perpetual opposition to the union leadership, regardless of its background or intentions, might be more effective than attempting to become the union leadership. According to this analysis, union democracy is best viewed as an instrument of leverage with which to force the bureaucracy to perform, not as a means to install a new bureaucracy."

    "The most effective internal dissident group in the history of the American labor movement no longer needs to concern itself with disciplining the membership or defending corrupt officers. Now [TDU] can devote itself to its most valuable and no doubt most popular function: making the Teamster leadership deliver the goods."
    - Russell, Thaddeus. "'Restore Teamster Power': Militancy, Democracy, and the IBT," New Labor Forum No. 4 (Spring - Summer 1999), pp. 110-23

    Carey had an immense amount of pressure on him to strike in 1997 - still, the '97 strike was a watershed moment in the US labor movement. TDU has done and continues to do some good things, even if I completely disagree with their tactics or the people they have run for office. There is no white-or-black answer here.

    If you want the full article I quoted, inbox me.