Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by Joe Nuno, Feb 15, 2012.
We are FedUp with FedEx (OFFICIAL VERSION) - YouTube
FedEx has so many special deals and circumstances that not only give them unfair tax advantages, but also significant competitive advantage in the delivery business marketplace. Fred Smith has bought himself all of this, and we get poorer while he gets richer. Sign the card.
Tax group names 'Dirty Thirty' companies - Dayton Business Journal
EDGE clears the way for four major projects, including FedEx and Nucor � The Commercial Appeal
And this is different from other large corporations how?
FedEx is an especially bad offender. They should be called-out for not playing by the rules. Fred pretty much makes-up his own rules with cash. Is that the way our system is supposed to run?
I'm addressing tax dodging, which is what this topic is about.
Microsoft got amnesty for $1.25 Billion in unpaid taxes, interest and penalty charges and they pay taxes in the 7% range.
Walmart uses tax avoiding techniques to avoid paying State and Local taxes to the tune of $400 Million/year.
Apple, GE, Exxon, BOA, Citigroup, Carnival Cruise Lines and Boeing are others that have paid little (<5%) or NO taxes for years.
OK, so they are wrong too, and big-time tax dodgers, just like FedEx. They all need to be called-out.
Agreed. I'll bet the guys/girls in the mail-rooms of those companies making half what we make would appreciate that. But, it wouldn't change anything until the laws are changed allowing them to use those loopholes.
Corporations don't actually pay taxes. They pass that and other expenses to their customers.
You tend to speak the language of the Right pretty well and this is a good case. Care to explain? I think I know what you are going to say but I don't think you are following your logic far enough to get a fair understanding.
Not sure what you are expecting. Corporations do file their taxes and try to minimize the amount they officially have to pay. But generally they've factored that expense into what they already charge their customers, just like they do for supplies, equipment, etc. In a very competitive environment they can't charge their customers too much so if the government raises taxes it hits their bottom line. Depends on how profitable the industry they're in is as to how hard
the taxes hit. Grocery chains tend to have very small profit margins, like 2%. Oil companies run at about 9% to 10%(and a big chunk of what we pay at the pump is tax). Google had a 28% tax margin last year. Wall Street firms tend to have high margins. Ever wonder why Wall Street is so generous to Democrats when they're in power? Trying to keep the tax man away. When I hear Republicans blame moving factories overseas on high taxes I believe they're being disingenuous. They moved them for higher profits. The taxes they pay here don't keep them from making a profit. They just want more, and don't care what it does to the rest of us.
Ok. So then the if taxes are increased on corporations, naturally they raise their prices. But they can only raise their prices as to what the market will allow. Now if the tax rate were to go up, corporations can do one of two things: raise prices, or pay it out of profits. What group in the U.S. has been booming? Corporate America. And marketing is smart in America. Corporations are smart in America and they have leverage. A 3% tax increase can be spread out over many areas. Part can be passed on to the consumer, but it can also be offset by the corporation shopping around to become more efficient with shipping and their own suppliers. And if one company decides to put it all on the consumer, the competition will be able to undercut their price. Simply put, it's too simple to say that it is passed onto the consumer and you go to get the money where the money is.
I think we said much of the same thing. If you are suggesting Ground's growth is due to companies wanting to control costs and maximize profit you won't get an argument here. As much as it hurts to be on the wrong side of the fence Express employees need to face facts that the business environment is changing, actually it's always evolving. There's still a place for Express but it's going to be scaled down as shippers move to low cost alternatives. And of course FedEx is going to fight tooth and nail to keep a union out as it would result in an anchor they'd be forced to drag around and limit their ability to grow in areas that meet customer demands. However like making sausage the process isn't pleasant and we employees have been on the receiving end of alot of B.S. in the last 15 years. Lying to us to accomplish their goals while we burn through many of our most productive years builds up alot of resentment. Ultimately they are saying that we only matter in what we can do for them, and if we have to sacrifice to make them successful then that's good enough for us. I think the twenty-something's are seeing this happening and already there's civil unrest because of it. We're not owed a great living but we don't want to be serfs either. Companies need to understand this and do everything they can realistically do FOR their employees, not TO them. But the guys in charge truly believe they deserve considerably more than the rest. So continue to push people while not offering healthcare, retirement, or paid time off, not to mention crap pay. It will bite you at some point.
They can do more than raise prices or pay it out of profits. They can also forgo future capital investments, employee benefits, new hires, pay raises, and so forth. It's usually some combination of any of those. The bottom line is that the money comes out of the pockets of individuals. It comes out of the respective pockets of:
The customer who had to pay a higher rate
The guy who owns stock (directly or as part of his 401k/IRA) who receives a lower yield
The guys who were going to build that new plane
The employee whose health coverage either went up in price or decreased coverage (or both)
The guy who would otherwise be hired
The employee who didn't get as much of a raise or didn't get any raise at all
The guy who got laid off
People who scream about how much (or little, I guess) corporations pay in taxes absolutely ASTOUND me. First off is that they never realize that in the end, it's going to be someone like them who pays whatever stupid increase they wish to see enforced. Then there's the sheer hypocrisy and ignorance of what they're complaining about. A company organizes its activities to reduce its tax liability as much as possible while still remaining in compliance with the tax code. Can you name any people who don't do the same thing? Do you know of anyone who says, "I never take all of the deductions to which I'm entitled"?
Let's not forget those who scream about the "Nanny State" and then lobby Congress for special exemptions. Government is fine as long as it works for the rich and powerful, huh?
Let's break it down simple. We aren't over taxed. If we want the military, social and infra structure we have, we have to pay for it. If we run deficits, that means we are choosing not to pay for it. If we choose to pay for it, then which part of "we" is sitting on the cash?
Or we could do the smart thing and let all tax cuts expire.
Let's reduce spending to less than what we take in. No deficit and start paying the debt down. Start with stop growing government. Since Obama came into office the number of gov't employees that make $150k or more has increased by thousands. There's much that can be done without increasing taxes. And remember that about half of American adults pay no federal income taxes while the top 10% of income earners pay the bulk of it. Unless we're prepared to force all workers to pay more then it's unfair to create more costly programs that are being paid for by a small % of the population. We should think in terms of safety net, not in terms of utopia. Looking after the truly needy is the mark of a great society. Supporting the able bodied is the mark of a decaying society.
We're definitely over taxed at the federal level. There's so much that could be eliminated from the federal budget and replaced with nothing that the public would never miss that it would make your head spin. Multiply that much money by a dozen and you have things that benefit only a handful of people.
My criteria for rational federal spending is pretty simple: Is it absolutely vital that the federal government administer/operate this department/program/whatever? Will the lack of federal funding/running of this program be catastrophic because neither the private sector or state and local governments can do the same thing? And my favorite, is it a legitimate function of government to do this?
I don't get worked up over the spending anymore, though. It has been increasing for as long as I've been alive and it will continue to do so no matter what.
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