What do you think? The Utmost Importance of Safety at UPS.

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
toonertoo,

I diagree. You have to make safety important before someone gets hurt.

Personal safety is a core value of UPS.

Have you reported this safety concern to the company?

Sincerely,
I
You can disagree all you want. Respectfully I, but it has been brought to the attention of our mgmt, and should be done in cities all over the country. And probably has, yet their is not 1 action set in place to keep us out of bad areas at night. I have told them to keep my commercial down, so I can get this stuff done early, and not 1 thing has been done, or ever will be until someone gets hurt. And I am not alone. All the inner city drivers have voiced concerns. We are told bid on a different route, respectfully someone is going to be there and that person is at risk. They do nothing. Its not on their list of things to do. Real safety concerns that do not involve DOK.
 

packageguy

Well-Known Member
For Discussion:

The safety of UPSers and the general public is of utmost importance to the management of UPS and the Leaders of the Teamsters.

Do you regard this as a true statement?

I so; what everyday examples can you share that lead you to draw this conclusion?

If not; what leads you to draw this conclusion?

Sincerely,
I


In my view safety comm. works I was part of it for many years.
 

packageguy

Well-Known Member
we had many issues on the table I must say they were all addressed they were just as committed as we were. I can't say anything bad about it.
 

Dragon

Package Center Manager
For Discussion:

The safety of UPSers and the general public is of utmost importance to the management of UPS and the Leaders of the Teamsters.

Do you regard this as a true statement?

I so; what everyday examples can you share that lead you to draw this conclusion?

If not; what leads you to draw this conclusion?

Sincerely,
I

A lot of people have posted about safety training. The issue is when we review the safety process with the employee they "feel" they do not need to know it because its not in the contract.

Here is an example:

We spend all the day with you on the pacakge car completing an S&V. We review everything (5 seeing habits, 10 point commentary, backing, SWM) we even reduce backing events on car and point out things you are doing wrong and we document it all. This is called training and for everyone of you you get this training once a year. We demonstrated on your route on how to use 5 seeing habits etc; etc; not in some dry office setting.

After the S&V, we do an interview and you still cannot give me example's on what we worked on with you while on the car (supervisor is in the chair next to you during the interview and is rattling it off) Why?
Then you go back on car and proceed to back where we told you not too (love telematic's = immediate warning letter because you will admit you did it when I review telematics with you and steward) or you don't clear the intersection or you hurt your back because you didn't bend at the knees. Remember we demonstrated and trained all the proper ways to do these things when we were on the car with you on a route and we documented it.

Now please explain why you "feel" you don't need to comply with the safety process? Is it not important to the UPS employee as it is to UPS.

If your answer begins with:

I don"t..
I think..
I feel..
I believe..
Its stupid..
It has nothing..
Union says..
Its not in...
I have a degree in....
No one else...
You cannot...
Its drivel...

you may need to re-think what you are about to post.

You are paid over 80k a year to know and demonstrate the answer to 14 safety questions. I do not believe its asking to much.

Safety, Service, Production you have to balance all 3. You can never choose the last 2 over the first one.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
A lot of people have posted about safety training. The issue is when we review the safety process with the employee they "feel" they do not need to know it because its not in the contract.

Here is an example:

We spend all the day with you on the pacakge car completing an S&V. We review everything (5 seeing habits, 10 point commentary, backing, SWM) we even reduce backing events on car and point out things you are doing wrong and we document it all. This is called training and for everyone of you you get this training once a year. We demonstrated on your route on how to use 5 seeing habits etc; etc; not in some dry office setting.

After the S&V, we do an interview and you still cannot give me example's on what we worked on with you while on the car (supervisor is in the chair next to you during the interview and is rattling it off) Why?
Then you go back on car and proceed to back where we told you not too (love telematic's = immediate warning letter because you will admit you did it when I review telematics with you and steward) or you don't clear the intersection or you hurt your back because you didn't bend at the knees. Remember we demonstrated and trained all the proper ways to do these things when we were on the car with you on a route and we documented it.

Now please explain why you "feel" you don't need to comply with the safety process? Is it not important to the UPS employee as it is to UPS.

If your answer begins with:

I don"t..
I think..
I feel..
I believe..
Its stupid..
It has nothing..
Union says..
Its not in...
I have a degree in....
No one else...
You cannot...
Its drivel...

you may need to re-think what you are about to post.

You are paid over 80k a year to know and demonstrate the answer to 14 safety questions. I do not believe its asking to much.

Safety, Service, Production you have to balance all 3. You can never choose the last 2 over the first one.

Perhaps they view you and the company you facilitate for to be hypocrites.
I say that because to the best of my deductions, you are a Center Manager at best.
At that level you don't manage, you facilitate.
While you preach the drivel on these rides, are you ever in a package car with a low back seat, a two point seatbelt and without power steering and brakes?
Is your center a bonus center?
Mine is.
How do justify rewarding drivers who beat their routes time study?
Do you believe they do it by the methods?
How can we take it seriously when the company doesn't?
As long as the hypocrisy exists, the phrases and commentaries will continue to be drivel.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Perhaps they view you and the company you facilitate for to be hypocrites.
I say that because to the best of my deductions, you are a Center Manager at best.
At that level you don't manage, you facilitate.
While you preach the drivel on these rides, are you ever in a package car with a low back seat, a two point seatbelt and without power steering and brakes?
Is your center a bonus center?
Mine is.
How do justify rewarding drivers who beat their routes time study?
Do you believe they do it by the methods?
How can we take it seriously when the company doesn't?
As long as the hypocrisy exists, the phrases and commentaries will continue to be drivel.


I figured he was a steward.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
I'm at a loss as to how a CHSP committee meeting isn't open to whomever wants to show up....it may only be paid time for the actual members, but there's nothing that says other hourlies cannot attend, afaik......at least it's never been that way in the buildings I've worked in...Hell, we encouraged people to come when I was the management co-chair.

Fine, but safety is a job requirement, so why should hourlies come in before their start time, unpaid? Answer? They shouldn't.
 

Jackburton

Gone Fish'n
A lot of people have posted about safety training. The issue is when we review the safety process with the employee they "feel" they do not need to know it because its not in the contract.

Here is an example:

We spend all the day with you on the pacakge car completing an S&V. We review everything (5 seeing habits, 10 point commentary, backing, SWM) we even reduce backing events on car and point out things you are doing wrong and we document it all. This is called training and for everyone of you you get this training once a year. We demonstrated on your route on how to use 5 seeing habits etc; etc; not in some dry office setting.

After the S&V, we do an interview and you still cannot give me example's on what we worked on with you while on the car (supervisor is in the chair next to you during the interview and is rattling it off) Why?
Then you go back on car and proceed to back where we told you not too (love telematic's = immediate warning letter because you will admit you did it when I review telematics with you and steward) or you don't clear the intersection or you hurt your back because you didn't bend at the knees. Remember we demonstrated and trained all the proper ways to do these things when we were on the car with you on a route and we documented it.

Now please explain why you "feel" you don't need to comply with the safety process? Is it not important to the UPS employee as it is to UPS.

If your answer begins with:

I don"t..
I think..
I feel..
I believe..
Its stupid..
It has nothing..
Union says..
Its not in...
I have a degree in....
No one else...
You cannot...
Its drivel...

you may need to re-think what you are about to post.

You are paid over 80k a year to know and demonstrate the answer to 14 safety questions. I do not believe its asking to much.

Safety, Service, Production you have to balance all 3. You can never choose the last 2 over the first one.
The last line is key, those of us that truly believe in safety do choose it over the other two, yet my center gave two wooden plaques to two employees for running over 400 stops in one day during peak. It was even mentioned that one of the employees slightly hurt himself a week later. I also know these two individuals did not take a lunch during this time. Was it ever questioned how these results were produced?

Guys that have been safe for 25 years get a pre printed piece of paper with a plastic sheath that my kids bring home from school for good grades. Explain to me what message you're relaying? Actions speak louder than words comes to mind here.
 
Last edited:

Dragon

Package Center Manager
The last line is key, those of us that truly believe in safety do choose it over the other two, yet my center gave two wooden plaques to two employees for running over 400 stops in one day during peak. It was even mentioned that one of the employees slightly hurt himself a week later. I also know these two individuals did not take a lunch during this time. Was it ever questioned how these results were produced?

Guys that have been safe for 25 years get a pre printed piece of paper with a plastic sheath that my kids bring home from school for good grades. Explain to me what message you're relaying? Actions speak louder than words comes to mind here.

They guys that have not gotten injured in 25 years..are they lucky or do they really know how to stay safe? Would you say they are trained?

No matter what form of recognition we give the employees for what they do, some one always thinks they should have been given more.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
The last line is key, those of us that truly believe in safety do choose it over the other two, yet my center gave two wooden plaques to two employees for running over 400 stops in one day during peak. It was even mentioned that one of the employees slightly hurt himself a week later. I also know these two individuals did not take a lunch during this time. Was it ever questioned how these results were produced?

Guys that have been safe for 25 years get a pre printed piece of paper with a plastic sheath that my kids bring home from school for good grades. Explain to me what message you're relaying? Actions speak louder than words comes to mind here.

I'll sum it up in one word.
Hypocrisy.
 

Jackburton

Gone Fish'n
They guys that have not gotten injured in 25 years..are they lucky or do they really know how to stay safe? Would you say they are trained?

No matter what form of recognition we give the employees for what they do, some one always thinks they should have been given more.
Much like the other management I've questioned, you fail to answer my questions. Why do we recognize production more heavily than safety in that instance? Why do we not have these "production heros" explain how they achieved such numbers? These two employees both have had injuries in the last year alone. I know these two employees very closely, the methods they use, and fully admit to doing things that are not by the methods. Why doesn't management simply sit down and use telematics to the extent you would for someone who was under performing? The answer to these questions is the same for the everyday operations, as long as the result is achieved, it doesn't matter how we got there.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
They guys that have not gotten injured in 25 years..are they lucky or do they really know how to stay safe? Would you say they are trained?

No matter what form of recognition we give the employees for what they do, some one always thinks they should have been given more.

I would say they stay safe as a result of their collective experiences, and learning from their near misses and mistakes.
I'm not here to rail against safety, I am just saying safety doesn't begin and end with commentaries and buzz phrases.
The recognition I would like is to be left alone until I display a reason for you to give me remedial training.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Much like the other management I've questioned, you fail to answer my questions. Why do we recognize production more heavily than safety in that instance? Why do we not have these "production heros" explain how they achieved such numbers? These two employees both have had injuries in the last year alone. I know these two employees very closely, the methods they use, and fully admit to doing things that are not by the methods. Why doesn't management simply sit down and use telematics to the extent you would for someone who was under performing? The answer to these questions is the same for the everyday operations, as long as the result is achieved, it doesn't matter how we got there.

It's always about the money.
What they are attempting to create in their "culture of safety", is nothing more than an illusion for the purpose of limiting liability in the event of an accident or injury.
In the end, we all know that they will turn a blind eye to a runner/gunner who balances their scorecard.
They are hypocrites.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Dragon, please clarify one thing for me. In your post you stated that you love Telematics in that it allows you to give warning letters to drivers who admit to the Telematics violation(s). I know that Telematics in and of itself cannot be used for discipline (yet----this will change in 2013) so is it their admission that allows you to give the warning letters?

BH, it is possible to work both quickly and safely.
 

Jackburton

Gone Fish'n
It's always about the money.
What they are attempting to create in their "culture of safety", is nothing more than an illusion for the purpose of limiting liability in the event of an accident or injury.
In the end, we all know that they will turn a blind eye to a runner/gunner who balances their scorecard.
They are hypocrites.
This will never be admitted but is the understood status quo disguised as sayings from management as "It is what it is" or "We've told you guys to be safe, that's where it's your responsibility"
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
BH, it is possible to work both quickly and safely.

That is what a time study is supposed to reflect, right?
So with that in mind, how do you account for a driver being an hour or two under?
Why would a company, preaching safety first, offer to compensate employees who are cheating the safety mandates a bonus?
Try and look past your own hypocrisy to answer this question.
 
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