What I would like to see Election Day

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by scratch, Oct 11, 2006.

  1. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    Its election time in America again. The airwaves are full of attack ads and "October Surprises", its dirty politics as usual, and both parties are just as guilty. I think that when politicians first run for office, they want to do what we send them there for, but they soon fall into depending on the lobbyist's money and owing special favors to the special interest groups that got them there.

    Because of this, I believe that the true will of the majority of Americans is often overlooked. Polls show that we have opinions on certain topics, but due to politics, these concerns of ours are not addressed. My idea is that I wish we could vote on certain things directly, lets let the majority decide. Now I understand how Amendments to the Constitution work, something is proposed and is voted on state by state so it can be ratified eventually. This takes too long, issues are blocked and delayed for different reasons.

    When I go to vote next month, I wish I could vote for more than just than some politician or local issue. I wish the following could be decided by the people directly. I am sure that some of you reading this will have your own ideas and opinions. Mine, in no particular order:

    1.Term limits on Senators, Representatives, and Judges. These shouldn't be jobs for life, they all need to be replaced after a while.

    2. Balanced Federal Budget. Politicians shouldn't spend more than we have, except in a National Emergency such as war. This will cut out a lot of waste. Politicians should be paid only if they can do this.

    3. True Court Reform. Real Tort Reform would cut down on ridicules jury awards that drive up consumer costs and insurance rates. If you bring a frivolous lawsuit to trial and lose, you should pay all court cost.

    4. Welfare Reform. Too many people being paid to sit around and do nothing.

    5. Secure Our Borders. We should control who is in our country

    6.Abortion. This is a tough moral issue that polls say the country is split about 50/50 on. The issues of rape, incest, and health of the mother are at stake here.

    7.Gay Marriage. Polls say 75% of people oppose it. Maybe Civil Unions would address this issue.

    8.Mandatory Sentences. Criminals who murder, rape, and molest children forfeit their freedom. Longer sentences and the death penalty should take care of this problem.

    9.Exactly what "Separation of Church and State" means. Eighty to ninety per cent of people say they believe in God, but prayer in school has been done away, public displays of The Ten Commandments, Easter and Christmas displays are attacked, and so on. We have the right to believe how we want too, I don't think that the ACLU and activist judges should force their agenda on the rest of us.

    10. Better Campaign Reform. Special interest groups and the lobbyist have too much power in Washington. They should be banned.

    11. Abolish the IRS. Everyone over a certain income level should be taxed at the same rate. The "Fair Tax"is a good idea, put a National Sales Tax on things to raise only the necessary revenue this country needs.
  2. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Interesting events in the Georgia Governors race. You have the sitting Governor being accuses of shady money deals and then you have the opposition also being accused of similar money deals. In other words. to an independent observer or in this case, the voter, your choice is between 2 individuals with shadows of corruption hanging over their heads. This was more evident in a recent debate between the 2 but with an added twist. There was a 3rd candidate (3rd party) in the debate mostly ignored because he was only talking about issues and what he felt were solutions to the many problems. Also the media doesn't consider his chances are much anyway and history would seem to show this being correct. You could debate the merits of the problems and solutions which is media boring and the mud and drama of championship wrestling is more inviting for media purposes but while the other 2 were slinging mud this guy (3rd party candidate) was focused and talking ideas and how to get there.

    The results? Both the standard party candidates including the sitting governor slipped in the polls with the 3rd party candidate going up significantly especially amongst undecided. I'm not foolish enough to think that these undecided voters swinging to the 3rd party are in total agreement with the candidate but it's more a backlash to the status quo of the 2 major parties. Now the numbers aren't enough to put the 3rd candidate over the top by any stretch but it could cause a runoff election and it is creating a local media stir. Not panic but I'm sure concern is out there and it will be interesting to see the other debates that are yet to come to see if the 2 major party candidates redirect or continue the same track. I'm hoping their errogance is their undoing!

    What IMO is a good sign is people are starting to react against the negativity of elections where mud is in ample supply and solutions and ideas are mainly nowhere to be found. To me, this is a very good sign and also a healthy sign for the American voter as a whole.
  3. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  4. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    At the link above is a book printed in 1970' entitled "Man and the Welfare State" and no I haven't read it as I've just found it in PDF form on the net. The above link is that PDF file. As I opened the file and began to look it over I started reading the first chapter entitled, "Instant Utopia" with is pages 1-3 in the book but pages 10-12 in the PDF file. I'd like to encourage you to read just these 3 pages and I guess like most including myself now looking back 35 years, it's another "the sky is falling" clarion call but step back a little further and look again. Here's what I see.

    Here we are 36 years in the future but look at the ills that the author saw in that day as listed on this 3 pages.

    1)Youthful generation full of cynicism and revolt (yeah I was there in 1970' and loved every minute of it LOL!)
    2)Politicians making promises of full employment, prosperity and economic growth and solving age-old problems
    3)Concerns of the day were size and scope of gov't in our lives plus it's related spending, tax burden, budget deficits, loss of purchasing power and even Social Security worries

    That was 1970'? Does this at all sound familar? Talk about Deja Vu.

    OK, let's now look from our stepped back position at the constant over the last 35 years in which we have seen the same old problems follow us around like an ugly, worthless, stray dog that we'd all like to shake loose. The constant are actually 2 items.

    #1 The first being the folks who sat in power and controlled policy regarding these very issues above. In that, I mean the democrat and the republican parties who in varying times and forms controlled the apparatus of gov't. Folks, in 35 years, what really has changed? Forget the "sky's falling" bit as we're still here but focus on the many problems that the politicians have sold us a spin job on that their party or policy or platform beliefs will all be solved once and foreall when they are elected and set public policy. In 35 years, what has really been solved with all this work and effort? How many of us would keep our jobs if we had so little to show for all the effort? And that leads me to the 2nd and quite frankly the more important of the 2 constants I spoke of earlier.

    #2 That other constant is "US", the American Voter as like leemings we mirgrate to the polling places in a genetically embedded process having been mentally conditioned to send by the voting process the very same folks right back again to continue doing the very same thing over and over and over so that in another 35 years our children and grandchildren can read our version of the 1970' book above(edition 2006') and then not only will they see the same thing in their day but they will swear up and down that over 2006' version was nothing more than we were lazy as hell and just photo copied the 1970' version and claimed it as our own beause it fir like a glove. The real horror that our children and grand children will realize in 2042' is that we were really horrible parents and citizens who taught them no different and thus they will pull out the 1970' book and like we, their parents and grandparents, and photo copy that damn same book for their own history.

    Do we just keep sending the same old people there like we've done the last 35 years and predestine our kids to the same rotten barrel of apples we've continued to choose or do we walk into that voting booth and do something that bucks the status quo but sends a huge message that our kids can write a completely different and positive story of their own history (maybe even burn that book LOL!) of their time and look back at us with love, effection and gratitude for finally standing up and thinking for ourselves for once.

    It's time to break this cycle!

  5. CTOTH

    CTOTH Not retired, just tired

    I would like to see lobbying(legal bribary) outlawed and punichable by death for treason or the money goes into one account and is distributed evenly amongst all of the candidates.

    I would like to see senators and congressmen get raises based upon the average american living wage instead of voting on their own salaries. I would also like to seen less vacation time in the government and term limits on congress and senate.

    Seems like we need a shake up all around, so I will be voting only for cadidates who don't already hold office.
  6. hoser

    hoser Industrial Slob

    4. HW Bush clamped down on welfare many years ago, particularly how long someone can be on welfare for. He was quite successful; turnaround from welfare recipient to paycheque recipient went way up. If you think the welfare program in the US is huge and out of control, look to many other countries.

    5. Uphill battle that being blown into an issue by a bored media and desperate politicians. A friend pitched an interesting question to me the other night: why can goods can move freely across borders (particularly goods which are made 90% cheaper than if you were to drive 15 miles down t he road) , but people can't move freely?

    6. Tough moral issue? :lol: State telling a woman what she should do with her body vs woman choosing what to do with her fetus? Rape victims are not at risk, all women are at risk. This great country shouldn't take a step backward and try to outlaw abortion. Those crack babies deserve to lead a life of crime and.... as you outline in your point #8

    7. 75%, depending on what the question was asked and the sample size and demographic. Calling rural Georgia and asking "do you believe the state should ensure gay men have the right to wed?" is a lot different than calling Manhattan and asking "do you believe homosexuals of both genders should have the right to be marry?" Don't rely on polls (let alone the media) to base popular opinion.

    8. Those against abortion also support capital punishment. Yae ideology!

    9. One flaw in your argument: judges don't make laws. They interpret them. Contrary to Lou Dobbs, they are in check. Or if you don't think they are, maybe the US should stop the practise of electing them?

    10. Ban lobby groups? I'm suprised you say this as an employee of a large US based package company. And as a teamster, as well.

    11. 100% support you on sales tax. Tax consumption, not income. Disagreed about a rigid tax scheme, it should be a progressive scale; students shouldn't pay as much (or any) income tax as a millionaire mass-email sender. Raise revenue this country needs? I have an idea, STOP SPENDING LIKE A LIBERAL AND TAXING LIKE A CONSERVATIVE! :w00t::w00t:

    One issue that should be addressed electronic voting. I'm suprised the citizens of an individualistic country like the US hasn't opposed voting software and hardware to be in the hands of private (and inevitably partisian) interests, particuarly in the public sector, which loves to take the lowest bidder.

    The Welfare State had its relevance until the Yom Kippur War in 1973 where Nixon helped Israel. In retaliation, OPEC stopped sending oil. Welfare States rely on low-inputs, and rising oil works against the notion of low-inputs. Inflation shot up, employers couldn't pay their employees anymore, employees went on strikes, the economy was an engine running without oil. Investors got out, then came the neo-liberal state, along with Ron and Maggie (and even Mulroney in Canada), and you have what we have now.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2006
  7. rushfan

    rushfan Well-Known Member

    1. Real representation! YOU WORK FOR US, WE DON'T FOR YOU!

    2. Politicians do not run the military-The generals do. Let them complete the mission, and come home.

    3. Flat tax.

    4. Fix the trade deficit with China.

    5. Make the Representatives and Senators stay at crapy motels/hotels. That way, they will be more focused on getting work done so they can go home and away from some rat infested motel.

    6. Stop spending like drunken sailors.
  8. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  9. tonyexpress

    tonyexpress Whac-A-Troll Patrol Staff Member

  10. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Kerry is on FOX right now backpeddling like a son of a gun !!
  11. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    OOPS !! He forgot to apologize to the troops.....must've been a "senior moment".
  12. Fresh Air

    Fresh Air Guest

    If Republicans want to debate who supports the troops more, let's have that debate. I'd love to talk about nothing else than Iraq for the next week.

    Daily Kos: The John Kerry nonsense
  13. tonyexpress

    tonyexpress Whac-A-Troll Patrol Staff Member

    Even members of his own party say he should apologize. Whatever his intent he still owes the troops and their families an apology. :wink:

    This guy makes his living public speaking yet when he mis-speaks he blames Bush or the Republicans. If he really didn't mean to put down the troops why doesn't he apologize??:mad:

    He needs to own up and take responsibility for being speaking like a buffoon. The Democratic Party would be much better off if he just kept his trap shut.

    Just imagine if he were President, YIKES!!:w00t:

    BREITBART.COM - Some Dems Join GOP Seeking Kerry Apology
  14. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    John Kerry can retire now and write his book....."How To Become an Instant Liability To Your Party".

    :lol: :wink: :thumbup1:
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Great idea. flat tax it all the way.
  16. Fresh Air

    Fresh Air Guest

    Kerry was referring to Bush, not to our troops, but blew the lame punch line.

    At least Kerry didn't bow to a Shiite militia, and abandon a missing soldier in Sadr City.

    Here's what conservative Andrew Sullivan had to say:
    'The U.S. military does not have a traditional of abandoning its own soldiers to foreign militias, or of taking orders from foreign governments. No commander-in-chief who actually walks the walk, rather than swaggering the swagger, would acquiesce to such a thing.... And where, by the way, is McCain on this? ... Silent recently on Iraq. But vocal - oh, how vocal - on Kerry."[/]

    I'll grant you Kerry is a fool, but what would that make the Administration in Washington? Foolish traitors or foolish cowards? Maybe both.
  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Gee Fresh Air, there's something very familar about your 2 posts!

  18. tonyexpress

    tonyexpress Whac-A-Troll Patrol Staff Member

    The only thing you said that made sense.:cool:

    BostonHerald.com - Herald Columnists: True to form, Kerry blames others for gaffe
  19. tonyexpress

    tonyexpress Whac-A-Troll Patrol Staff Member


    Mideast terror leaders to US.:

    Vote Democrat withdrawl from Iraq would embolden jihadists destroy Israel, America.


    WorldNetDaily: Mideast terror leaders to U.S.: Vote Democrat

  20. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I think Saadi of the Islamic Jihad is dead on the money. No matter who gets elected nothing will change and both sides know this. I became of voting age in the early 70's and I've sat down and really pondered what has change and what has gotten better since then. Oh, we've have some policy changes here and there that may have benefitted in some way but ask yourself this to consider for a moment.

    Over the last 30 to 40 years, our gov't and the wonks that make it up have cried of problems and and the need for gov't control. In this period our gov't, it's budget and it's debt have all grown to massive levels and based on trends there is no reason to believe that in another 30 or 40 years, those who envision a "small gov't" at the federal level will long for our day now as being a small gov't paradise just as many today would love to be back at the 1970's levels. But here's where one has to sit back and honestly look and consider the greater question that the Washington insider hope you will never do.

    In the past 30 to 40 years, with all that gov't done, what has really been resolved once and for all? What problem has been so resolved that a national announcement of victory has been declared, that all gov't necessary to support is no longer needed and that the gov't employee's have been assigned elsewhere or better yet sent back out to enter the private sector?

    In the 70's it was the War on Inflation. All the politicians extolled their ideas of how to eliminate inflation once and for all and did we? Nope! It's still here but what we did is create and expand gov't to the point that inflation is planned (so to speak) and controlled. Inflation could exploded at any moment if we decided not to take the magic pill the doctor gaves us. More on that one later.

    How about the War on Drugs? A boondoggle going now for 20 years plus (really started in early 1900's) and where are we? No closer to winning if you want to know the truth. We've expanded, legislated and thrown vast sums of tax dollars and what do we really have to show for it? We've eliminated the small dealers and traffickers to some degree but we set up the situation where a few could now consolidate and control certain markets and drug lanes and in turn, via their legit sides, smooze gov't and police agencies to be able to market their products while at the same time, when they see a new market threat in the form of an up and coming new dealer in the market, the big boys use the police agencies and gov't to bust and eliminate this new market threat. These big dealers have seen for years how the big Corp. guys use, control and manipulate gov't to protect there business interests and they are now doing the same.

    I as well as any of you I'm sure can name a number of issues that we think are resolved but in reality they aren't. The bureaucracy and the supporting legislation has allowed the gov't to plan and control these elements to the point that you and I consider them resolved. Think for a moment. Would the gov't really want illegal drugs eliminated once and for all? If this happened, the impact to the economy would be massive. Think of all of these 1000's of people (if not millions) who in some way or another have their income and work come from the market segment of illegal drug enforcement and treatment. All of a sudden they have no work so what are they going to do? At some point the taxpayer would demand some element of productivity out of those tax dollars so either assign them elsewhere or turn them loose. Could you imagine all those police officials, gov't bureaucrats and health professionals now out of work at one time and the impact that would have economically? The dirty truth is they can't win the war and at the same time they can't legalize it either. Either scenario is damaging. The solution? Maintain and control the problem to suit the needs and use it to make the people believe that gov't is needed in all matters and is the only option.

    Here's one that FDR created back in the 1930's that most felt a noble thing for gov't to do. It was called the Rural Electrification Adminstration (REA) and was created in 1935'. The goal of REA was to promote electricification in rurals areas which was rare at the time because of the cost of running lines. Now 70 years later do you think we need this agency? Most would think not and I agree but yet we still have it! It's no longer a stand alone but was folded into the USDA an here's their website Utilities Programs From looking over things, the old REA has become a Federal Loans department. Could it be some of these proposed projects are not justified enough to obtain private sector loans or better yet, the industry has manipulated the system to get gov't to be their lowcost loan officer at the expense of the American taxpayer? My money is on the latter rather than the former based on what I see in politics today.

    Now speaking of that doctor. Let's say you woke up one day feeling sick. I mean sick enough to effect your lifestyle and you knew a doctor visit was in need. So off you go and the Doc checks you out and said you need to take these pills and everything will be AOK. So you take the pills and sure enough you do feel alot better, not picture perfect as you once did but good enough to function as you need to. You believe you've been cured but then the pills run out and that old feeling comes creeping back. You return to the Doc exclaiming you've got it again and you begin the cycle of pills again. Pills run out and back to the Doc you go. Finally one day you ask the Doc why hasn't he cured you yet. Then the Doc finally has to tell you the ugly truth. "I can't sure you" he exclaims. I can only sell you these pills that treat the symptoms and give the illusion of cure but that is short term and needs my constant care for the rest of your life. From now on til you die, you will have to see me on a regular basis so I may give you the pills you need. We leave under the belief that this is our only option and out of conditioning and fear we dare not tread elsewhere in the hope that there really is a cure. That patient is everyone of us here and across this great country.

    Washington really doesn't care who you vote for because they have both bases covered. No matter which way you go on election day it's gonna be AOK for them and nothing will change for you and me. What scares Washington more than anything else is low voter turnout. In our State's early primary election only 15% of the voters turned out and right now the big boys are schitting bricks, scared of what Tuesday will bring. Voting is like the ERI is to UPS. UPS wants a high ERI turnout so they can know what you're thinking and then react accordingly with actions to steer you and me in certain directions that they have planned with the idea that results will be planned and controlled to fit the large business plans and goals of the company. UPS gets what they want and we think we got what we want. Perect world! Don't get mad at UPS because our gov't has done this long before UPS did and most larger company's do/did this long before UPS did so UPS has just caught on in the last 20 years. In the mid-70's I worked for a much smaller company than UPS who did this and when I saw UPS go this route in the mid-80's or so, it was not new to me having already seen it before. Voting is nothing more than a national ERI and the candy to get you to vote is the politician who tells you what you want to hear. When they get in there after the election, Very little changes. You fear the democrats will withdraw from Iraq but howmany years has the republicans been saying they will eliminate the income tax, privatize SS and outlaw abortion. Oh you say it was those bastard democrats who stopped it but you'd better look again, They never had any intention of doing any of this because they knew like the law enforcement and healthcare is to the drug trade, so are these other issues to their various attachments in the greater planned society. They are meer hot buttons to get you to react on election day. Same is true on the other side of the political isle. Hell, even the environment comes into this. They want Kyoto because it commoditizes pollution and thus creates a global trading market where the smaller countries can make money off the larger countries. America is bucking because China and India aren't included and would grant them an upperhand in the marketplace as they could pollute and still sell credits to make money on both ends. The US will jump on board with both feet when either China and India are included or we as a nation find a solution that vastly reduced out output and thus we can make money by selling our credits. It's all about the money boys and girls. We don't have fuel alternatives now because it's not built into the larger planned economy and public policy!

    If you must vote democrat or republican then at least always vote against the incumbent. In other words, every election cycle would completely turn over the House and 1/3 of the Senate on the National level and Washington knows you're addicted to incumbents so that's the one bet they've never had a hedge one. On this coming Tuesday, be a revolutionary in the greatest peaceful revolution of mankind. Throw em' a real curveball and vote for anybody but the incumbent. That peaceful act will do more good for this country than any and all the legislation you could ever come up with. You fear Nancy Pelosi? Great, vote against the incumbent! You hate Dennis Hastert? No problem, vote against the incumbent. It's a win/win folks and huge message to both parties from us, the real Americans!