WOW!! A Fully-Funded Pension

FedEx2000

Well-Known Member
Well at least you admitted you are a mgr. You might go back and review the posts on this thread. The way you described couriers and what we are worth certainly won't convince many that the company truly cares about them. Just remember, when you are enjoying all the nice things that your pay and bonuses provide, like a decent retirement, college for your kids, etc, keep in mind that many employees are doing without while doing the work that makes that happen for you. Judging from your posts I doubt that it matters, but maybe you'll see it someday.


I think that most couriers bust their butts, it's the other 20% that are over-employed and seem to feel entitled to everything that bother me......but that carries over to all walks of life....same can be said about some managers. I care about my employees, but I have no control over how the "company" feels about them..

Haven't had a bonus in almost two years.....to go along with a 5% pay reduction....tough to enjoy that. Yet I still come to work everyday and bust my hump and don't complain about it. I usually end up running a route about once a week b/c of sick calls/injuries/time off and I also work the sort everyday. And by work the sort I don't mean stand there and observe, I mean unload trucks, load cans, scan docs, do DG......whatever it takes. No one that works with/for me will ever accuse me of standing by while they do all the work. Maybe it's my Midwestern/farm roots, but one thing I can't stand is a manager that sits in their office while the sort is going on around them. So I've earned every cent that has come my way and I will enjoy it. Also, considering that many of the couriers in my station take home more than I do at the end of the year with all their OT it's hard to feel too sorry for them.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I've worked in 4 different districts....never seen nor heard of the "list".

I never said get rid of it to maximize profits....at least quote me accurately. I'm not going to say that the "pension" plan is all that, but as I stated before, I've accepted the fact that it is what it is and I'll use other options to take care of the rest as best I can. Do you really want your entire retirement handled by a company that you distrust all the way to the top? Or managed by a Union that is also looking out for itself, not you? I prefer to have it in multiple arenas....diversify and all....but maybe that's just me.

Not spinning anything either, just stating my opinion just like everyone else.....doesn't matter if you like it. No one is forcing me to say it. I enjoy my job and I try to make it enjoyable for the people around me.......why be miserable and bash the company that has provided everything that you do have in life? Where does it get you besides alone at a computer arguing with anyone whose opinions differs? Oh, and I really love the way you enjoy stereotyping people and placing them in to specific groups b/c of one thing or another. Read a few more books and drop some more historical references...it doesn't make you sound pretentious at all.

Horatio Alger is a well-known historical figure. Sorry if you think referring to him is pretentious, but I learned about him and his philosophy in high school, not college. The Lipton set agrees with him.

I'm pretty confident our pension will be restored because that will be contract item number one when Fred has to sit down and negotiate with the union. The one we have now is nearly worthless, so I don't have a problem with the Teamsters. Are there any UPS retirees who aren't receiving their checks right now? No, there aren't. Maybe Hoffa and the IBT are crooks, but Fred S is worse....far worse.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
If you want a pilot/exec. pension, maybe you should have pursued those careers. You want $70+k a year for a job that doesn't even require a high school diploma? Get a grip. Fact is, couriers/handlers/CSA's are replaceable. I've seen pizza delivery persons run a more efficient route.


This statement is indicative of the arrogance of many in management and the contempt they feel for their employees. I suspect they justify in their minds their participation in exploiting employees by telling themselves that we should feel lucky to have a job considering how stupid and incompetent we are. I'll have to check JCATS, but pretty certain a high school diploma is required.

I'm betting most mgrs know that if a union gets in, and we negotiate better pay and benefits, then mgrs will have to settle for their salaries, that bonuses will end. And if the "talent" leaves for better pastures, no worries. At least 20% of couriers are "talented" enough to take their place, capable of doing the job that even super couriers can't do!
 

FedEx2000

Well-Known Member
This statement is indicative of the arrogance of many in management and the contempt they feel for their employees. I suspect they justify in their minds their participation in exploiting employees by telling themselves that we should feel lucky to have a job considering how stupid and incompetent we are. I'll have to check JCATS, but pretty certain a high school diploma is required.

I'm betting most mgrs know that if a union gets in, and we negotiate better pay and benefits, then mgrs will have to settle for their salaries, that bonuses will end. And if the "talent" leaves for better pastures, no worries. At least 20% of couriers are "talented" enough to take their place, capable of doing the job that even super couriers can't do!

Not necessarily, a G.E.D. will suffice. I don't feel any contempt towards any of my employees whatsoever. That said, there are too many employees that spend more time trying to get out of work rather than just doing their part. The "good" (for lack of a better term) employees get dumped on and eventually get frustrated. Unfortunately it also seems that the ones who barely skate by are also the ones who know how to work the system the best. Some of that is management's fault, but most of the blame falls on the system. It's human nature to go to the people who always say yes and make it happen rather than spend 20 minutes trying to get someone else to take 10 stops.

I think that expecting to make anywhere near $70k (Supposed UPS average) without any kind of secondary education, solely on the basis that UPS does, is expecting too much. As far as mgrs settling for their salaries, I completely disagree.....how many managers would stay if they were making less than most of their couriers? None. Why have more responsibility and stress and less pay? Makes no sense. FedEx currently has a 15% compression corridor, meaning that a managers salary will be no less than 15% higher than their highest paid employee, calculated on base pay only...no OT factored in. That corridor might be lessened, but I highly doubt they wouldn't adjust mgr salaries as well. I would agree that there are at least 20% of the couriers that could do it, but why would they if they are making that much more as drivers without the stress?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, a G.E.D. will suffice. I don't feel any contempt towards any of my employees whatsoever. That said, there are too many employees that spend more time trying to get out of work rather than just doing their part. The "good" (for lack of a better term) employees get dumped on and eventually get frustrated. Unfortunately it also seems that the ones who barely skate by are also the ones who know how to work the system the best. Some of that is management's fault, but most of the blame falls on the system. It's human nature to go to the people who always say yes and make it happen rather than spend 20 minutes trying to get someone else to take 10 stops.

I think that expecting to make anywhere near $70k (Supposed UPS average) without any kind of secondary education, solely on the basis that UPS does, is expecting too much. As far as mgrs settling for their salaries, I completely disagree.....how many managers would stay if they were making less than most of their couriers? None. Why have more responsibility and stress and less pay? Makes no sense. FedEx currently has a 15% compression corridor, meaning that a managers salary will be no less than 15% higher than their highest paid employee, calculated on base pay only...no OT factored in. That corridor might be lessened, but I highly doubt they wouldn't adjust mgr salaries as well. I would agree that there are at least 20% of the couriers that could do it, but why would they if they are making that much more as drivers without the stress?

That $70k average is with overtime also. And we aren't asking for UPS pay and benefits. Those of us in mid-range are being asked to settle for less. We have to work overtime to just make what topped out employees make on 40. I have to work 46.5 to equal their 40 after 11.5 years. That's after being told by 2 mgrs in 2 locations after I was rehired that I would top out in 7 to 8 years. Those mgrs and others in other locations were telling newhires the same thing. Say what you will, but about everything I've experienced since being rehired, and quite a bit before I quit, was based on lies, either at the local or the corporate level. This company has no fast track to better pay for couriers who go the extra mile and work hard. I'm not talking about going into management, just being rewarded for doing more and doing it well. Even the little bonus they are giving now...those who topped out years ago, many in as few as two years, will always get a bigger bonus than mid-range employees, many of whom have over 10 years in. The system is a sham. And with the internet FedEx may find it even harder in the future to recruit quality employees. Word gets around. And I wasn't talking about reducing your salary. If you feel we should get over the pension then I'm saying you shouldn't get a bonus. You already get a decent salary, you shouldn't count on that bonus for your future needs. And if a union gets in I'm pretty certain you won't be getting a bonus. It's not about getting big money. It's about reacting to how we are expected to "fall on our swords" so some can live extraordinarily well. We don't exist just for your benefit. And before you tell me if I don't like it why don't I leave, I've given most of my adult life to FedEx. I've earned the right to point this out. They've had us on the cheap long enough. We mid-range employees want to share in the rewards of working for FedEx too and deserve better than what we are getting.
 

FedEx2000

Well-Known Member
That $70k average is with overtime also. And we aren't asking for UPS pay and benefits. Those of us in mid-range are being asked to settle for less. We have to work overtime to just make what topped out employees make on 40. I have to work 46.5 to equal their 40 after 11.5 years. That's after being told by 2 mgrs in 2 locations after I was rehired that I would top out in 7 to 8 years. Those mgrs and others in other locations were telling newhires the same thing. Say what you will, but about everything I've experienced since being rehired, and quite a bit before I quit, was based on lies, either at the local or the corporate level. This company has no fast track to better pay for couriers who go the extra mile and work hard. I'm not talking about going into management, just being rewarded for doing more and doing it well. Even the little bonus they are giving now...those who topped out years ago, many in as few as two years, will always get a bigger bonus than mid-range employees, many of whom have over 10 years in. The system is a sham. And with the internet FedEx may find it even harder in the future to recruit quality employees. Word gets around. And I wasn't talking about reducing your salary. If you feel we should get over the pension then I'm saying you shouldn't get a bonus. You already get a decent salary, you shouldn't count on that bonus for your future needs. And if a union gets in I'm pretty certain you won't be getting a bonus. It's not about getting big money. It's about reacting to how we are expected to "fall on our swords" so some can live extraordinarily well. We don't exist just for your benefit. And before you tell me if I don't like it why don't I leave, I've given most of my adult life to FedEx. I've earned the right to point this out. They've had us on the cheap long enough. We mid-range employees want to share in the rewards of working for FedEx too and deserve better than what we are getting.

Sounds like your biggest mistake was leaving and re-hiring, obviously hindsight is 20/20, and you may have had a better opportunity at the time, but unless you are gone for less than 6 months I think it is, you start back at square one as far as pay....which I don't agree with. If you have prior experience, you shouldn't have to start at bottom of range.

Can't do much about the "lies" of the 2 mgrs, that's just poor character on their part. Not sure why mgrs shouldn't get a bonus, salary pension is the same as the hourly pension....so mgrs should lose their pension AND bonus? Which by the way, mgrs have not gotten a dime in bonus pay since July 2008....2 years. So I definitely don't count on it, it's called a bonus for a reason. Not sure why mgr bonus would go away if a Union gets voted in? If anything the bonus should go up for having to deal with a Union. I don't harass and intimidate employees in to doing things, I find that asking gets much better results. For me, the Union represents a wall between me and my employees that makes our job harder to do....I don't think 2 adults should have to have a 3rd party present during every conversation. Also, I run routes and touch boxes...big no-no's for UPS supervisor's....and it's not about taking work away from hourlies, it's about getting the job done, ontime.

Mgr pay starts in the $50k range, many senior couriers make more than that. Decent, but definitely not overpaid. Hourly employees have gotten the FPP twice a year since the last mgr bonus....and it's based on what you made the previous half, so if you want to increase it, cover a PM or an open Saturday once in a while, which you may already do. At least it is in your hands to some extent. Mgr bonus is up to the Sr Mgr, they determine what % you "earned".

For the record, I don't think that it's fair to senior employees to have people top out in 3 years (for example)....don't you think that someone with 20 yrs of experience should be making more than someone with 3? I understand that you are "doing the same job", but almost every profession pays more for experience/knowledge. I would have been topped out as a courier after 10 yrs, had I stayed a courier and assuming approximately the same review scores as in the past....I don't think that is out of line. (Started in 2000)

The fast track to better pay is getting 6.8-7.0 on your review each year, especially in the year they give a bonus 1% for getting a 7. Now that the courier review is almost entirely auto-calculated, your mgr has almost no say in your score. There is only one category that your mgr enters, the rest auto populate. I've seen some employees with terrible attitudes that don't do anything extra get 6.4-6.7 b/c they rarely miss a scan and they are there everyday on time, even while they complain. In the past, your mgr had a lot of say in the review, they have taken that away, and in most cases it's for the best. So your mgr doesn't "give" you your review score, you earn it. Or don't. Beyond that there is no fast track, I suspect mostly due to that fact that some mgrs would abuse it and give their "favorite" employees unfair raises leaving the door open to lots of California lawsuits.

Mid-range employees have gotten the shaft of late, we had this discussion with our director after SFA last year, even the senior employees that are topped think it's bogus. So I know for a fact they are aware of it. From what I was told, the biggest problem is that they are trying to figure out a way to do something fairly.Who is a mid-ranger? What are the determing factors? Somebody will feel slighted no matter what they decide.

Oh, and the only person I have told to leave if they don't like it is MrFedEx.....I really think he would be happier anywhere but here.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Sounds like your biggest mistake was leaving and re-hiring, obviously hindsight is 20/20, and you may have had a better opportunity at the time, but unless you are gone for less than 6 months I think it is, you start back at square one as far as pay....which I don't agree with. If you have prior experience, you shouldn't have to start at bottom of range.

Can't do much about the "lies" of the 2 mgrs, that's just poor character on their part. Not sure why mgrs shouldn't get a bonus, salary pension is the same as the hourly pension....so mgrs should lose their pension AND bonus? Which by the way, mgrs have not gotten a dime in bonus pay since July 2008....2 years. So I definitely don't count on it, it's called a bonus for a reason. Not sure why mgr bonus would go away if a Union gets voted in? If anything the bonus should go up for having to deal with a Union. I don't harass and intimidate employees in to doing things, I find that asking gets much better results. For me, the Union represents a wall between me and my employees that makes our job harder to do....I don't think 2 adults should have to have a 3rd party present during every conversation. Also, I run routes and touch boxes...big no-no's for UPS supervisor's....and it's not about taking work away from hourlies, it's about getting the job done, ontime.

Mgr pay starts in the $50k range, many senior couriers make more than that. Decent, but definitely not overpaid. Hourly employees have gotten the FPP twice a year since the last mgr bonus....and it's based on what you made the previous half, so if you want to increase it, cover a PM or an open Saturday once in a while, which you may already do. At least it is in your hands to some extent. Mgr bonus is up to the Sr Mgr, they determine what % you "earned".

For the record, I don't think that it's fair to senior employees to have people top out in 3 years (for example)....don't you think that someone with 20 yrs of experience should be making more than someone with 3? I understand that you are "doing the same job", but almost every profession pays more for experience/knowledge. I would have been topped out as a courier after 10 yrs, had I stayed a courier and assuming approximately the same review scores as in the past....I don't think that is out of line. (Started in 2000)

The fast track to better pay is getting 6.8-7.0 on your review each year, especially in the year they give a bonus 1% for getting a 7. Now that the courier review is almost entirely auto-calculated, your mgr has almost no say in your score. There is only one category that your mgr enters, the rest auto populate. I've seen some employees with terrible attitudes that don't do anything extra get 6.4-6.7 b/c they rarely miss a scan and they are there everyday on time, even while they complain. In the past, your mgr had a lot of say in the review, they have taken that away, and in most cases it's for the best. So your mgr doesn't "give" you your review score, you earn it. Or don't. Beyond that there is no fast track, I suspect mostly due to that fact that some mgrs would abuse it and give their "favorite" employees unfair raises leaving the door open to lots of California lawsuits.

Mid-range employees have gotten the shaft of late, we had this discussion with our director after SFA last year, even the senior employees that are topped think it's bogus. So I know for a fact they are aware of it. From what I was told, the biggest problem is that they are trying to figure out a way to do something fairly.Who is a mid-ranger? What are the determing factors? Somebody will feel slighted no matter what they decide.

Oh, and the only person I have told to leave if they don't like it is MrFedEx.....I really think he would be happier anywhere but here.

More lies. Who tops-out in 10 years? I work with numerous 10-15 year employees who aren't even close to top-of-range. I guess you worked in a unique station, or you're just lying. There are plenty of couriers with only 3 years of service that out-perform more senior people every single day. The extended top-out times are a money-saving scam, just like the market level garbage. The 7.0 deal is crap too. If you're a 7.0 employee, management is going to beat the bushes to find something they can hang on you to make sure that 7.0 goes-down to a 6.9.

You're right that I'd be happier elsewhere. Who created that scenario? I used to love my job and FedEx, but along the way a lot of things changed. Did I change them? NO. FedEx did. All of the takeaways, BPP, extended top-outs, and a long list of other changes created an entirely different company and a lousy work environment. A lot of us chose FedEx as a career because the company once treated us right and then were stuck when the game plan changed mid-stream. Thanks, Fred.

Here's just one example (of many) I'd like you to defend.....our wonderful injury policy. A while back, FedEx decided that injury rates were too high and decided to get aggressive about "safety". What this really meant was that almost every injury became the employee's fault. If a box falls on your head from a container, it's your "fault" because you "should have been aware of your surroundings". If you blow-out a knee or back lifting a heavy box, you used "improper lifting techniques". The list goes on and on. I've overheard meetings where managers figure-out ways to pin the injury on the employee by speculating that it was "probably" caused by off-work activities. For example, I know someone who injured their shoulder at work while unloading a container. Because this employee plays in a softball league, they "agreed" that they would rule the on the job injury preventable and blame the shoulder problem on softball. When I informed this individual what I had overheard, providing names, a date and time, he immediately contacted an attorney. When his manager gave him the phony ruling, my friend simply provided his attorney's business card and said he would make no more statements to FedEx. Guess what happened? Right. Ruling changed to non-preventable.

You can come on here and lie all day long, and you will be shot down in-flames each time you do. Keep trying.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Sounds like your biggest mistake was leaving and re-hiring, obviously hindsight is 20/20, and you may have had a better opportunity at the time, but unless you are gone for less than 6 months I think it is, you start back at square one as far as pay....which I don't agree with. If you have prior experience, you shouldn't have to start at bottom of range.

Can't do much about the "lies" of the 2 mgrs, that's just poor character on their part. Not sure why mgrs shouldn't get a bonus, salary pension is the same as the hourly pension....so mgrs should lose their pension AND bonus? Which by the way, mgrs have not gotten a dime in bonus pay since July 2008....2 years. So I definitely don't count on it, it's called a bonus for a reason. Not sure why mgr bonus would go away if a Union gets voted in? If anything the bonus should go up for having to deal with a Union. I don't harass and intimidate employees in to doing things, I find that asking gets much better results. For me, the Union represents a wall between me and my employees that makes our job harder to do....I don't think 2 adults should have to have a 3rd party present during every conversation. Also, I run routes and touch boxes...big no-no's for UPS supervisor's....and it's not about taking work away from hourlies, it's about getting the job done, ontime.

Mgr pay starts in the $50k range, many senior couriers make more than that. Decent, but definitely not overpaid. Hourly employees have gotten the FPP twice a year since the last mgr bonus....and it's based on what you made the previous half, so if you want to increase it, cover a PM or an open Saturday once in a while, which you may already do. At least it is in your hands to some extent. Mgr bonus is up to the Sr Mgr, they determine what % you "earned".

For the record, I don't think that it's fair to senior employees to have people top out in 3 years (for example)....don't you think that someone with 20 yrs of experience should be making more than someone with 3? I understand that you are "doing the same job", but almost every profession pays more for experience/knowledge. I would have been topped out as a courier after 10 yrs, had I stayed a courier and assuming approximately the same review scores as in the past....I don't think that is out of line. (Started in 2000)

The fast track to better pay is getting 6.8-7.0 on your review each year, especially in the year they give a bonus 1% for getting a 7. Now that the courier review is almost entirely auto-calculated, your mgr has almost no say in your score. There is only one category that your mgr enters, the rest auto populate. I've seen some employees with terrible attitudes that don't do anything extra get 6.4-6.7 b/c they rarely miss a scan and they are there everyday on time, even while they complain. In the past, your mgr had a lot of say in the review, they have taken that away, and in most cases it's for the best. So your mgr doesn't "give" you your review score, you earn it. Or don't. Beyond that there is no fast track, I suspect mostly due to that fact that some mgrs would abuse it and give their "favorite" employees unfair raises leaving the door open to lots of California lawsuits.

Mid-range employees have gotten the shaft of late, we had this discussion with our director after SFA last year, even the senior employees that are topped think it's bogus. So I know for a fact they are aware of it. From what I was told, the biggest problem is that they are trying to figure out a way to do something fairly.Who is a mid-ranger? What are the determing factors? Somebody will feel slighted no matter what they decide.

Oh, and the only person I have told to leave if they don't like it is MrFedEx.....I really think he would be happier anywhere but here.

Yeah, I was told by a mgr 7 years ago that FedEx was looking into paying mid-range employees better, that it was a top priority. It appears you've decided to explain to us simple folk the "big picture." I can cite example after example of being cheated by mgrs since being rehired, search for my posts if you are interested, not going to bore the regulars again. It's wonderful that many senior couriers make as much or more than you. Is it fair for a 3 year employee to make as much as a 20 year employee? Those 20 year employees topped out in what, 4 or 5 years? Even more senior couriers topped out in 2. And again, if the company can't afford that, why not 10? You must know people, because a 10 year employee won't top out in 10 years, period. You also need to take into account that there are 7 payscales. Raises are based on percentages, those on lowest payscale like myself will take longer because we started so much lower. I was rehired at $10.85, have watched starting pay climb while getting no adjustments myself. It will take me 25-30 years to catch top pay, but what does FedEx care? 6.8 to 7.0 raises? My mgr thinks a 6.0 is a very good raise, and he's not alone. The system is rigged, and you are an apologist for it. Top pay should be higher, and the time it takes to reach it should be shorter. Will FedEx pay us better? I'll believe it when I see it. And I've worked for Dominoe's in the past. To compare what we do with pizza deliverers is insulting.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I should say that I've known good mgrs and sr.mgrs. FedEx2000 may very well be one of them. Just get a little frustrated with the defending of corporate pay policy. We in mid-range are second class citizens at FedEx. Due to seniority we often do the worst rts, often with less vacation time, and are expected to settle for considerably less pay. If given the chance to vote for a union, I believe most mid-range employees will vote yes. We already know what we're getting from FedEx. A union may not improve that, but it's a chance worth taking if we are to have anything better at all. I think FedEx could make all this go away if they actually do something substantial for us. More of the same will just increase the frustration, increase the desire for a union.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I should say that I've known good mgrs and sr.mgrs. FedEx2000 may very well be one of them. Just get a little frustrated with the defending of corporate pay policy. We in mid-range are second class citizens at FedEx. Due to seniority we often do the worst rts, often with less vacation time, and are expected to settle for considerably less pay. If given the chance to vote for a union, I believe most mid-range employees will vote yes. We already know what we're getting from FedEx. A union may not improve that, but it's a chance worth taking if we are to have anything better at all. I think FedEx could make all this go away if they actually do something substantial for us. More of the same will just increase the frustration, increase the desire for a union.

Time for honest self-examination: Do you truly think that if the company thought they could just as easily replace those managers as easily as they can package handlers or couriers that they would pay them that much? And as for "make it all go away", I don't think they care that much. They have their contingency plans in place no matter what happens.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I should say that I've known good mgrs and sr.mgrs. FedEx2000 may very well be one of them. Just get a little frustrated with the defending of corporate pay policy. We in mid-range are second class citizens at FedEx. Due to seniority we often do the worst rts, often with less vacation time, and are expected to settle for considerably less pay. If given the chance to vote for a union, I believe most mid-range employees will vote yes. We already know what we're getting from FedEx. A union may not improve that, but it's a chance worth taking if we are to have anything better at all. I think FedEx could make all this go away if they actually do something substantial for us. More of the same will just increase the frustration, increase the desire for a union.

While FedEx2000 may be a decent manager, he's also more than happy to spread the FedEx manure. The corporation would still like to make this all just go away by convincing us just how great FedEx is. Problem is, it's not working, nor will it work. As far as doing something substantial for us, FedEx is between a rock and a hard place because they can't "bribe" us to keep the union out. Tossing us a couple of bucks an hour would very likely result in a large lawsuit, so they've got to tiptoe around the money aspect and "sell us" on our benefits. Have you noticed the mailers, or the emphasis in station meetings on our fully funded non-pension plan? They've got nothing to offer, but are still trying to spin-it so it sounds like we've got a great company and a superb wage/benefit pkg. This won't work, and when the vote goes against FedEx, the rhetoric will become very nasty. IMO, FedEx is really up against it this time, and they are going to lose.
 

FedEx2000

Well-Known Member
While FedEx2000 may be a decent manager, he's also more than happy to spread the FedEx manure. The corporation would still like to make this all just go away by convincing us just how great FedEx is. Problem is, it's not working, nor will it work. As far as doing something substantial for us, FedEx is between a rock and a hard place because they can't "bribe" us to keep the union out. Tossing us a couple of bucks an hour would very likely result in a large lawsuit, so they've got to tiptoe around the money aspect and "sell us" on our benefits. Have you noticed the mailers, or the emphasis in station meetings on our fully funded non-pension plan? They've got nothing to offer, but are still trying to spin-it so it sounds like we've got a great company and a superb wage/benefit pkg. This won't work, and when the vote goes against FedEx, the rhetoric will become very nasty. IMO, FedEx is really up against it this time, and they are going to lose.

What you call "manure", I call my opinion. I am not against higher pay for hourly employees, I'm against the idea of using a Union to get it b/c of all the other things that come along with that. I also don't think hourly employees are as underpaid as some here portray, yes mid-rangers get shafted, but one can easily make $50k+ as a FT courier. I made $45k as a PT courier while going to school. Granted I basically worked FT hours, but it was my choice to do so. I was young, single, and needed the money to pay for school. I can understand the feeling that a union is the only option left to attempt to get better pay, just be careful what you ask for. I don't have any inside information, but would have to assume like many others here that there would be MAJOR changes at Express if it did happen. And I'm guessing most of them would not benefit the hourly employees, other than maybe $/hr pension issues.....but we would probably transform into an almost entirely PT workforce doing FO/P1 and P/U routes. So the hourly wage might be higher, but there would be much fewer hours to go around. PTers don't get nearly the same benefits either, at least in UPS's case from what I understand. The grass isn't always greener on the other side......Yes, there are many 3 year employees that outperform more senior employees, but unless you play a professional sport, seniority rules (in almost any job) when it comes to pay/vacation/route bidding.

As far as topping out in 10 years, not a lie. My lowest review was a 6.8, and I got multiple 7.0's. This is not the case now, mainly due to the fact that the best score you can get in Vehicle and Employee Safety is a 4.0 on your first review b/c you have to have a 24 month period of no accidents/unsafe acts to get a 7 in those categories. What does a manager have to gain by giving someone a 6.9 vs. a 7.0? I have never had to explain giving a good review score to anyone, it hasn't even come up as a topic of conversation with any of my Sr's or Directors. I guess if the mgr has a personal vendetta against someone, but that just makes them an unprofessional @ss if they can't separate the two. The ONLY category that a mgr has any input in is the Customer Service/Professionalism one which counts for 10% of the review, everything else auto-populates. Exceptions can be done, but require Sr and Director approval.

One other comment about FedEx being anti-union: I have had exactly 1 class that discussed this topic, my RVP was in the same class. The entire point of the class was to educate us on what we can and cannot say in regards to a Union and company policy on the posting of materials either in the bldg or on company property. We are not to "lie" about the Union, we can basically only state our opinion, make it clear that it is just our opinion, and state the facts. That's it. There are no big "Keep the Union out" or fire-and-brimstone speeches to us about how evil they are. I think FedEx truly feels that that with open door/GFTP/SFA/etc. that we don't need one, and that it would hinder the relationship between mgrs and their employees. Obviously their standpoint is going to differ from the hourly perspective. (not factoring pay in to this part of it)
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
What you call "manure", I call my opinion. I am not against higher pay for hourly employees, I'm against the idea of using a Union to get it b/c of all the other things that come along with that. I also don't think hourly employees are as underpaid as some here portray, yes mid-rangers get shafted, but one can easily make $50k+ as a FT courier. I made $45k as a PT courier while going to school. Granted I basically worked FT hours, but it was my choice to do so. I was young, single, and needed the money to pay for school. I can understand the feeling that a union is the only option left to attempt to get better pay, just be careful what you ask for. I don't have any inside information, but would have to assume like many others here that there would be MAJOR changes at Express if it did happen. And I'm guessing most of them would not benefit the hourly employees, other than maybe $/hr pension issues.....but we would probably transform into an almost entirely PT workforce doing FO/P1 and P/U routes. So the hourly wage might be higher, but there would be much fewer hours to go around. PTers don't get nearly the same benefits either, at least in UPS's case from what I understand. The grass isn't always greener on the other side......Yes, there are many 3 year employees that outperform more senior employees, but unless you play a professional sport, seniority rules (in almost any job) when it comes to pay/vacation/route bidding.

As far as topping out in 10 years, not a lie. My lowest review was a 6.8, and I got multiple 7.0's. This is not the case now, mainly due to the fact that the best score you can get in Vehicle and Employee Safety is a 4.0 on your first review b/c you have to have a 24 month period of no accidents/unsafe acts to get a 7 in those categories. What does a manager have to gain by giving someone a 6.9 vs. a 7.0? I have never had to explain giving a good review score to anyone, it hasn't even come up as a topic of conversation with any of my Sr's or Directors. I guess if the mgr has a personal vendetta against someone, but that just makes them an unprofessional @ss if they can't separate the two. The ONLY category that a mgr has any input in is the Customer Service/Professionalism one which counts for 10% of the review, everything else auto-populates. Exceptions can be done, but require Sr and Director approval.

One other comment about FedEx being anti-union: I have had exactly 1 class that discussed this topic, my RVP was in the same class. The entire point of the class was to educate us on what we can and cannot say in regards to a Union and company policy on the posting of materials either in the bldg or on company property. We are not to "lie" about the Union, we can basically only state our opinion, make it clear that it is just our opinion, and state the facts. That's it. There are no big "Keep the Union out" or fire-and-brimstone speeches to us about how evil they are. I think FedEx truly feels that that with open door/GFTP/SFA/etc. that we don't need one, and that it would hinder the relationship between mgrs and their employees. Obviously their standpoint is going to differ from the hourly perspective. (not factoring pay in to this part of it)

When they announced in early 2007 that the traditional pension would be terminated in mid-2008 i realized that I had one calender year left to affect my pension. I volunteered for whatever I could get, worked a lot of 6 day weeks even though I was a 4X10(mgr classified me as 5X8 to avoid double time issues). Managed $48k, best year ever with company, had to live and breathe FedEx for a year. Not so easy to make $50k for mid-range couriers, especially if in station with low payscale and especially if work isn't there. I was only courier in that station volunteering like that, most felt it wasn't worth the effort.

Please show me how with 6% raises(a 7 review) you can catch topped out couriers getting 3% raises(on higher pay), making up close to $7hr, in 10 years? Not to mention the company choosing to not pay raises or give a smaller raise. And I don't believe for a second that mgrs can't affect raises. I ran 2 rts to help a mgr out when we were shorthanded in Kingman, AZ. He assured me lates wouldn't affect me at all. Got off many nights after 2100, but limited myself to 12 hrs a day, 55 a week to make him happy. At review time I got a 5.9 because of all the lates, but he "generously" bumped it up to a 6.1. I was a swing too, posting better numbers than those I covered except for 1 route. You may honestly believe that mgrs are professionals with the highest ethics, but I've been all over the country and have run into too many who are trying to game the system to accelerate their career. And they are willing to use and abuse couriers to do that.

Say what you want about how much senior couriers can make, mid-range couriers are the future of the company. Eventually senior couriers will be gone, and then everyone will be on a long, slow line of pay progression. It's obviously what the company wants, and if they were at all concerned about how much less we are making they would've come up with a better system by now. They are very happy with the rate we progress, it holds costs down and helps maximize profits. And if we don't vote for a union and negotiate they will be happy to keep things as is. Might very well result in a part-time workforce. Then again, if a part-time workforce is optimal for maximizing profits why are they fighting so hard to keep a union out? Based on their track record they would've made us all part-timers by now if that was the most profitable thing they could do. And if we did top out in 10 years and still had the traditional pension we wouldn't be discussing a union now. But rather than settle for a lower stock price, lower profits, and no dividends they took things away from us to make themselves even wealthier than they already were. So please don't tell us how they are looking hard at mid-range pay, looking to see how they can make it better. Not happening, or if anything happens it'll be like that tiny bonus they give while touting how wonderful it is that they are doing that for us.

Should add that if a union gets in and we negotiate $30hr, which results in us getting 25-30 hrs a week max, I'll take it. I've been at this a long time, may not get any further ahead with less hrs, but I'll have more time to myself. Will make it possible to stay until I'm 60, which with the pension situation I'm realizing I don't have much choice but to continue to work. You say if couriers put in the hours they can make X amount. I'm saying after decades of this company with few rewards the last thing I want to do is work 55 hrs a week, even if it was available. When you are older you will understand. If you are scoffing and snorting at that statement then you don't yet have a grasp of the physical toll this work takes on you. I can still work harder than most, but I feel it much more now, and I'm asking myself why go the extra mile and work harder when there's no reward for doing so?
 
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MrFedEx

Engorged Member
What you call "manure", I call my opinion. I am not against higher pay for hourly employees, I'm against the idea of using a Union to get it b/c of all the other things that come along with that. I also don't think hourly employees are as underpaid as some here portray, yes mid-rangers get shafted, but one can easily make $50k+ as a FT courier. I made $45k as a PT courier while going to school. Granted I basically worked FT hours, but it was my choice to do so. I was young, single, and needed the money to pay for school. I can understand the feeling that a union is the only option left to attempt to get better pay, just be careful what you ask for. I don't have any inside information, but would have to assume like many others here that there would be MAJOR changes at Express if it did happen. And I'm guessing most of them would not benefit the hourly employees, other than maybe $/hr pension issues.....but we would probably transform into an almost entirely PT workforce doing FO/P1 and P/U routes. So the hourly wage might be higher, but there would be much fewer hours to go around. PTers don't get nearly the same benefits either, at least in UPS's case from what I understand. The grass isn't always greener on the other side......Yes, there are many 3 year employees that outperform more senior employees, but unless you play a professional sport, seniority rules (in almost any job) when it comes to pay/vacation/route bidding.

As far as topping out in 10 years, not a lie. My lowest review was a 6.8, and I got multiple 7.0's. This is not the case now, mainly due to the fact that the best score you can get in Vehicle and Employee Safety is a 4.0 on your first review b/c you have to have a 24 month period of no accidents/unsafe acts to get a 7 in those categories. What does a manager have to gain by giving someone a 6.9 vs. a 7.0? I have never had to explain giving a good review score to anyone, it hasn't even come up as a topic of conversation with any of my Sr's or Directors. I guess if the mgr has a personal vendetta against someone, but that just makes them an unprofessional @ss if they can't separate the two. The ONLY category that a mgr has any input in is the Customer Service/Professionalism one which counts for 10% of the review, everything else auto-populates. Exceptions can be done, but require Sr and Director approval.

One other comment about FedEx being anti-union: I have had exactly 1 class that discussed this topic, my RVP was in the same class. The entire point of the class was to educate us on what we can and cannot say in regards to a Union and company policy on the posting of materials either in the bldg or on company property. We are not to "lie" about the Union, we can basically only state our opinion, make it clear that it is just our opinion, and state the facts. That's it. There are no big "Keep the Union out" or fire-and-brimstone speeches to us about how evil they are. I think FedEx truly feels that that with open door/GFTP/SFA/etc. that we don't need one, and that it would hinder the relationship between mgrs and their employees. Obviously their standpoint is going to differ from the hourly perspective. (not factoring pay in to this part of it)

If that's the attitude of senior management, then they're going to have their hands full. It's delusional to think that Open Door/GFT and all the rest of the acronyms are going to convince most people they don't need a union. You sound like a decent manager, but I don't think being one is going to make much of a difference either. Even with all of these wonderful "benefits" and safeguards in place, we've still been treated like crap by FedEx, a point you don't seem willing to acknowledge. Not everyone wants to be a manager, especially from an ethical or lifestyle perspective. The fact that you chose management doesn't give you a free pass to insinuate that we don't deserve a substantial raise. I used to out-earn my managers every year, mainly due to lots of OT and a willingness to work whenever necessary. In a lot of locations, you're lucky to get 40 hours because of all the part-timers, and if you're a low to mid-range employee, forget about making decent money anyway because at $15 per hour, you'll be lucky to crack 40K as a full-timer. What a joke.

Combine lack of opportunity, too many part-timers, extended top-outs, and a non-pension, and you've just created the perfect recipe for a unionized company. Nobody at the top thinks there's even a problem according to you, so why is it that Fred has spent $21 million so far just to lobby for his RLA exemption? Again, if this is such a great place to work, just drop the exemption and allow employees to unionize on a location by location basis, OK? Quit wasting the corporation's money on Brownbailout.com and Iamfedex.com and get on with it. Put the top execs and pilots under the PPA while you're at it so they don't miss-out on the same retirement opportunities we have. If it's such a wonderful deal, then Fred can give back the $26 million in his pension account and Dave and the pilots can do the same and be under the PPA too. One big happy family, right?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Tell me what company with hourly workers gives 7% raises. Seems pretty good to me.

They don't. Scoring system on reviews rates things from 1 to 7, with an overall average of 7 being the highest you can get. A high score of 7 will get you a 6% raise, drops off from there in .1 increments. A 6.5 review gets you 5%. What they don't tell you is that for some odd reason topped out couriers(who get a max 3% raise if they get an overall 5 or greater on review) will often get those higher review scores like 6.7 or greater. Why not, it doesn't affect the 3% they get, the company gets to give them positive strokes. For some odd reason, go figure, mid-range employees, who can get up to a 6% raise, usually get much lower scores than topped out couriers. I've known great employees who worked hard, posted great numbers and yet only got like a 5.7 review. 2 year employees. Have seen new employees work very hard and get smaller raises than the topped out couriers who got 3% on their much higher pay. So after a year of hard work they are even further behind topout than when they started. And yet we are being told get that 7 review and you'll topout in 10 years. Totally rigged. And as to your question of whether the company can easily replace those mgrs? No, they can't. And I have no problem with them making more than me. Someone has to be in charge, make decisions, and it's not easy being between various groups above and below who all make demands on you. But if a mgr is going to come on here and tell us to get over not having the traditional pension, shouldn't count on them anyways, I'm going to say fine, do without bonuses, you make enough already, shouldn't count on them anyways. If we are going to be told that they should get high pay and bonuses or the company will lose talent to other companies, I'm going to point out that if the company makes demands on their employees that most companies don't, that if the young guys see there's no real future here in exchange for the hard work, they'll leave too. FedEx has become a place to mark time until something better can be found. Please don't ask why do I stay. I was staying inspite of the lousy pay for the traditional pension. When it went away the economy was starting to tank and I was 46. Not many options.
 

FedExer267

Well-Known Member
No, no, no, and no. He did it the old fashioned way. He went and found another contractor (the one he works for now) and they both went to their respective banks and took out loans. So once again the idea that I am truly an employee continues to go up in smoke. Any employees out there sell their route lately?:peaceful: News flash 267: those jobs aren't coming back with the economy.
Goes to show how much you really know bbsam my friend just went back to work and I am know number 7 on the list to go back to my 34 dollar a hour job. Yes it has taken awhile but things are picking up and I wont have a problem saying so long to any contractor who dosent value hard work and fair pay. The day you guys having to look for quality drivers for what you pay is getting closer:wink2:
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Goes to show how much you really know bbsam my friend just went back to work and I am know number 7 on the list to go back to my 34 dollar a hour job. Yes it has taken awhile but things are picking up and I wont have a problem saying so long to any contractor who dosent value hard work and fair pay. The day you guys having to look for quality drivers for what you pay is getting closer:wink2:
Congratulations.:peaceful:
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
They don't. Scoring system on reviews rates things from 1 to 7, with an overall average of 7 being the highest you can get. A high score of 7 will get you a 6% raise, drops off from there in .1 increments. A 6.5 review gets you 5%. What they don't tell you is that for some odd reason topped out couriers(who get a max 3% raise if they get an overall 5 or greater on review) will often get those higher review scores like 6.7 or greater. Why not, it doesn't affect the 3% they get, the company gets to give them positive strokes. For some odd reason, go figure, mid-range employees, who can get up to a 6% raise, usually get much lower scores than topped out couriers. I've known great employees who worked hard, posted great numbers and yet only got like a 5.7 review. 2 year employees. Have seen new employees work very hard and get smaller raises than the topped out couriers who got 3% on their much higher pay. So after a year of hard work they are even further behind topout than when they started. And yet we are being told get that 7 review and you'll topout in 10 years. Totally rigged. And as to your question of whether the company can easily replace those mgrs? No, they can't. And I have no problem with them making more than me. Someone has to be in charge, make decisions, and it's not easy being between various groups above and below who all make demands on you. But if a mgr is going to come on here and tell us to get over not having the traditional pension, shouldn't count on them anyways, I'm going to say fine, do without bonuses, you make enough already, shouldn't count on them anyways. If we are going to be told that they should get high pay and bonuses or the company will lose talent to other companies, I'm going to point out that if the company makes demands on their employees that most companies don't, that if the young guys see there's no real future here in exchange for the hard work, they'll leave too. FedEx has become a place to mark time until something better can be found. Please don't ask why do I stay. I was staying inspite of the lousy pay for the traditional pension. When it went away the economy was starting to tank and I was 46. Not many options.

Great post, and your situation is similar to that of thousands of other FedEx employees who hired-on with a company that was a completely different place in years past. Your decision to stay is based on the economy, not the false impression that FedEx is a great place to work. It used to be, but those days are long gone. When the economy improves, many will be leaving and Fred will be stuck with the leftovers.

The one thing we need to keep in mind is that FedEx thinks everything is just fine in terms of our compensation and benefits. They have absolutely no intention of giving us a penny more if they can possibly avoid it. FedEx 2000 gets on here and says that management hasn't been directed to be anti-union, but in the meantime Fred has poured $21 million into his anti-union efforts. That seems like a logical disconnect to me, and it makes local management statements that they haven't been "instructed" suspect at best.

Fred isn't your buddy and neither are the Teamsters, but they are the one chance we have to finally have some bargaining power with FedEx. As of right now, we are totally at their mercy, with absolutely zero say in the actions FedEx takes, and it's been that way for way too long.

All Fred had to do was be fair and equitable. Unfortunately, neither of those words are in his vocabulary when it comes to hourly employees. We have one good option, and that is to vote-in a union and force Smith to change his tune. It's wrong when a 150% courier takes 20 years to top-out, especially at a company that's supposed to be all about merit. Paper Bravo Zulus, pizza parties and donuts aren't legitimate substitutes for a fatter paycheck and they never will be, but that's how FedEx has been recognizing superior effort for far too long. It's a complete joke. It's time to stick the pizzas and donuts straight-up where Fred will feel them most. Perhaps we should cancel all of those executive perks and bonuses and reward them with Costco BBQ's and Domino's too.
 
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