Your comments needed NOW on proposed Hours of Service Changes

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by hypocrisy, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    DOT wants YOUR comments about proposed HOS changes. Specifically, the DOT would like to know if you would prefer the current 11 hours of driving time or only 10.
    Summary of proposed changes:

    How to submit comments:

    How to submit comments online: (yes the Govt never makes this easy)

    Link to where you submit comments:!home
    Choose "Proposed regulations"
    paste " FMCSA-2004-19608 " in the keyword box
    chose "submit a comment" under the Actions column.

    For your Package Drivers, I suggest asking that the exception under 395.1 that UPS is abusing be removed. If you asked for 10 hours of driving time with a max of 12 hours worked that would probably solve your 9.5 problem. You could ask for these rules to not apply in December if you like the extra overtime then.

    Expect these rules, whatever they end up as, to be in court for quite a while but the current DOT is way more interested in what Drivers think about their rules rather than Corporate America so take advantage now!

    Comment period closed February 28, 2011
  2. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    How about an 8hour rule?
  3. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    As for the package car driver suggestion - a package car driver only spends 3-4 hours a day driving unless they are in a super-rural area.
  4. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    The actual behind-the-wheel driving time may only be 3-4 hours, but you easily have equal that time spent doing physical labor moving packages to the delivery point and loading up. In my experience, driving a package car for 11 hours is easily twice as fatiguing as driving a tractor-trailer for the same time. It's fatigue that causes accidents therefore the small-package exemption should be changed. Regardless, the DOT wants to hear what Drivers want so now is the time to take care of that 9.5 issues on a Federal level.
  5. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Put it in there! Last round of rule-making had less than a few dozen online comments so yours could carry more weight that you might think!
  6. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    A package car driver is responsible for the safe operation of a commercial motor vehicle for the entire duration of his shift.

    The intent of the law is not to limit the number of hours that can be spent behind the wheel. The intent is to try to ensure that anybody who is responsible for the safe operation of a commercial motor vehicle for any amount of time has been given the opportunity to get an adequate amount of sleep.
  7. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    While I agree both should fall under HOS rules i have to disagree with you on your statement of package being twice as fatiguing than feeder. In package,while I worked the same number of hours, getting in and out of the seat and the variety of activity would keep me going. It wasn`t until the ride home that it would catch up. In a feeder once we get going on the road the mental work kicks in and I have found that far more fatiguing and affecting ones ability to maintain at 100%.
  8. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    You seem to have missed my point. Crowbar's suggestion will do nothing to change the over 9.5 dispatch because the DOT ruled back in the 80s and several times since that the actual operation of the commercial vehicle is what is considered driving time. Go back and read what you suggested and you will realize it will change nothing.
  9. 959Nanook

    959Nanook Member

    Which corporation are we talking about here... UPS or IBT? Is it an accident that I have not heard a squeak out of the Teamsters on this issue?
  10. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Great, just what we need is the government putting even tighter restrictions on what we can earn. I believe my building would lose most, if not all of our mileage runs if these changes were instituted. I vote no changes.
  11. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    I`m mixed on this. Maybe I lean to more defined restrictions based on being tired of occasionally having some 8 hour a day dispatcher tell me I can take out another run in my 11th hour because "you still have hours available". Hours on the clock and having more available and being fatigued do not necessarily go hand in hand. I`ve had days where I barely have 8 in but the day is fatiguing ( last weeks storm is an example) and others were I had maxed out and still be fresh and ready to go.
    There should be definitions of being actually fatigued versus hours in.
  12. Backlasher

    Backlasher Stronger, Faster, Browner

    Wow, I guess it should b an easy job, Lol. We all know our job is much more then just driving, very physical job. Even based on that vew it doesn't matter: If you work 4hrs driven part time and have a office job for an different company all together for 8 hrs. still all count as total hrs work that day and all hrs. count under dot.

    Part time air driver works 3 hrs for ups then works a 10 hr shift as a walmart cashier is still over D.O.T........ Alot of people don't realize this but check into it. It's a fact!!
  13. Backlasher

    Backlasher Stronger, Faster, Browner

    An 8 hr day sounds good cause then there would be more drivers on road and maybe I wouldn't be on call anymore.

    We should have D.O.T. require an earlier start time so we can be home earlier as well.
  14. packageguy

    packageguy Well-Known Member

    Just leave all the same. no changes needed. I vote no
  15. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Actually, you can work as many hours as you want, you just can't drive after 11 hours of driving, 14 total hours, and without 10 hour of rest (so in your Walmart example, as long as the air driver had 10 consecutive hours off between his Walmart shift and his UPS shift, they would be fine). Lets say you pulled a full 14hr day/ 11hr driving as a Feeder driver, you could even come in and operate a shifter for as many hours as you felt safe doing it as long as you have 10 consecutive hours off before you drive on-the-road again. You can even exceed the 60 hour per week limit as long as you are not driving after 60 hours and have 34 consecutive hours off before driving again.

    So if you want extra hours, look to your preload or twilight/night sort for opportunities and help out the overwhelming number of UPS Package Drivers who would like relief from the forced overtime. If you don't like my suggested language, write your own suggestion or even just say "HEY DOT, we're UPS Package Drivers who feel we're being worked excessively and would like you to take a look at our concerns!" Of course, if you like the way things are tell them that too. UPSers are woefully underrepresented in the comments so far.

    It's a whole new crew at the FMCSA and they are listening to YOU so take advantage of it. These are Rules, not Laws, so there is plenty of room for future interpretation and changes. Don't let the past fool you, until Congress steps in and makes an HOS Law it's going to be a lot easier to get changes pushed through with the current FMCSA.
  16. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Where will you lose those extended rtes too? The only answer I can think of would be satellite centers, which is already taking a lot of those rtes and will continue to do so regardless of DOT regs.
  17. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Shifters are under than same hours of service as on road. Regardless off which you bid on here 60 hours is it. Go into Friday with less than 12 available and you better know what you have left exactly as you will be pulled into dispatch and given a pop quiz which you do not want to fail.
  18. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    I guess that might technically depend on whether the Shifter vehicles themselves are licensed to go on road or not (and if they actually do). In my area, they are not and don't have to abide by driving hours of service. I assumed it's that way every where but probably not true in all cases. Here it's just like driving an irreg cart.
    Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but you only log your driving hours once you are off-property, not all the actual time behind the wheel.
    Cach, do you have the updated IVIS in IL yet?
  19. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    We are considered on the clock regardless of which vehicles we drive here. 60 is 60. Some of the bid jobs are street/shift, half in the yard half out. Only three of our shifters have plates yet none have seen the street.

    We are just now getting the new Motorola IVIS.
  20. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Our shifters don't even have DOT cards.
    So I guess if they enforce the 60 regardless of the job stick with that because you know they'll make someone work more than 60 who doesn't want to!