This is about the strike of 97. Please try to stay on topic.
'97 Strike Resulted in UPS Going Public
- Thread starter Catatonic
- Start date
Ask the pt's that filled the 22.3 jobs in '98/'99 (with back pay awards) how they liked the FT jobs they got from that strike. Then ask anyone with half a mathematical brain to compute their additional income because of the base increase of '97.
You're having a grand old time rewriting history but that deal was done until UPS's Kelly kicked Murray out and regressed the offer FORCING Carey's hand.
Unlike you I wasn't eavesdropping in the corporate lunchrooms, but I had factual nightly reports and still have copies of TA's along the way. That LBF offer was never getting passed.
You need to either go fishing or get a job writing fairy tales. It appears you've already started.
Lead Belly
BANNED
It sucks I have to deal with the demons though. Gotta suck it up.
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
A few PTers bid decent 22.3 jobs if they had enough seniority. Most are stuck loading and unloading for 8 hours a day with a 1.5 or longer lunch break between sorts. At less pay than a high seniority PTer. One of the biggest reasons UPS has not had to increase the starting wages of PT. They have all their field hand 22.3
s to do the dirty work.
Packmule
Well-Known Member
Gonna wind this down with a little history for those who weren't around in 97.
On a Friday morning, right before a three day Fourth of July weekend, 1997, stewards announced there would be a strike authorization vote the following morning, at union halls across the country. Why a holiday weekend when so many had plans? Because everyone who didn't show up counted as a "yes" vote. In my area, 13 out of a possible 70 showed up, and those of us who did were told they needed the authorization becaus the company wasn't negotiating at all,
Who cared anyway? Twice now, presidents Reagan and Bush Sr. Had evoked Taft Hartley, ordering there would be no work stoppage at UPS.
It would be a year or two till union boss Ron would be indicted for voter fraud and money laundering through the democratic national convention. Maybe it's circumstantial, but Bill Clinton couldn't do the same, even though everyone frond hospitals to military bases were screaming they couldn't do their jobs without UPS delivering their supplies,
3 days into the inevitable strike, management delivered brochures to the strike line, detailing their proposal the union said didn't exist. Some liked it, some didn't, but didn't matter. The union wasn't about to give you a vote on it.
11 days into the strike, the company gave in and the union declared a great victory. Then, in 2003, everyone received a union letter explaining that the pension plan was going broke and no one would receive a dime till their middle sixties, and then only about half the money promised, because in a multi-employer fund, the union was giving 60 cents on the dollar UPS provided, to someone who never worked for UPS.
Fast forward, 2006. Union and company enter into negotiations a full 2 unprecedented years before the expiring 08 contract. The subsequently provide a proposal for member to vote on a full year before the 08 contract expired. Why the rush? APWA. Two feeder drivers out of N Carolina had started an upstart union made of nothing but UPSrs for UPSrs, needing only 30% of eligible members to sign a card, forcing a vote to replace the IBT or not. Only thing gonna shut down this movement is a newly ratified contract. Nullifies all gathered signature cards instantly.
2007. Loyal, dues paying, members, ignoring the alarms of t APWA, couldn't ratify the new contract, containing a new single employer pension fund fast enough, the only problem? It totally excluded the retirees. Left them hung out to dry.
I personally got to know those APWA founders. They were 30 plus year feeder drivers with many dear friends recently retired. Both assured me the would never propose, or accept, ANY proposal that didn't take care of the retired drivers whose blood sweat and tears helped forge this company as it expanded across the country.
Can't say that about the teamster bosses, or the rank and file members who threw retirees in the bus.
But they lecture me about solidarity and standing with your brothers!
Fast forward. 2012. We voted to give the union enormous economic control over the dollars UPS provides for our healthcare. In November Another Clinton may become president, and in August our contract expires.
Want to be paying $600 a month in HC premiums? Give the union a strike authorization and stick your head in the sand.
Or not.
Me? I'm gonna ride this one out. Gonna take a three week vacation in August, 2017, and retire soon thereafter. Medicare will make your HC premiums your problem.
My apologies to the OP for getting this post a bit off track.
On a Friday morning, right before a three day Fourth of July weekend, 1997, stewards announced there would be a strike authorization vote the following morning, at union halls across the country. Why a holiday weekend when so many had plans? Because everyone who didn't show up counted as a "yes" vote. In my area, 13 out of a possible 70 showed up, and those of us who did were told they needed the authorization becaus the company wasn't negotiating at all,
Who cared anyway? Twice now, presidents Reagan and Bush Sr. Had evoked Taft Hartley, ordering there would be no work stoppage at UPS.
It would be a year or two till union boss Ron would be indicted for voter fraud and money laundering through the democratic national convention. Maybe it's circumstantial, but Bill Clinton couldn't do the same, even though everyone frond hospitals to military bases were screaming they couldn't do their jobs without UPS delivering their supplies,
3 days into the inevitable strike, management delivered brochures to the strike line, detailing their proposal the union said didn't exist. Some liked it, some didn't, but didn't matter. The union wasn't about to give you a vote on it.
11 days into the strike, the company gave in and the union declared a great victory. Then, in 2003, everyone received a union letter explaining that the pension plan was going broke and no one would receive a dime till their middle sixties, and then only about half the money promised, because in a multi-employer fund, the union was giving 60 cents on the dollar UPS provided, to someone who never worked for UPS.
Fast forward, 2006. Union and company enter into negotiations a full 2 unprecedented years before the expiring 08 contract. The subsequently provide a proposal for member to vote on a full year before the 08 contract expired. Why the rush? APWA. Two feeder drivers out of N Carolina had started an upstart union made of nothing but UPSrs for UPSrs, needing only 30% of eligible members to sign a card, forcing a vote to replace the IBT or not. Only thing gonna shut down this movement is a newly ratified contract. Nullifies all gathered signature cards instantly.
2007. Loyal, dues paying, members, ignoring the alarms of t APWA, couldn't ratify the new contract, containing a new single employer pension fund fast enough, the only problem? It totally excluded the retirees. Left them hung out to dry.
I personally got to know those APWA founders. They were 30 plus year feeder drivers with many dear friends recently retired. Both assured me the would never propose, or accept, ANY proposal that didn't take care of the retired drivers whose blood sweat and tears helped forge this company as it expanded across the country.
Can't say that about the teamster bosses, or the rank and file members who threw retirees in the bus.
But they lecture me about solidarity and standing with your brothers!
Fast forward. 2012. We voted to give the union enormous economic control over the dollars UPS provides for our healthcare. In November Another Clinton may become president, and in August our contract expires.
Want to be paying $600 a month in HC premiums? Give the union a strike authorization and stick your head in the sand.
Or not.
Me? I'm gonna ride this one out. Gonna take a three week vacation in August, 2017, and retire soon thereafter. Medicare will make your HC premiums your problem.
My apologies to the OP for getting this post a bit off track.
By The Book
Well-Known Member
I don't remember saying it would never pass, maybe you could post that to refresh my memory. I did vote no though.
rod
Retired 22 years
I used to take an extra 10 or 15 minutes a couple of times a month to clean the insides of my truck out--some times I even hosed it out from top to bottom inside. If a driver done that now days what do you suppose would happen to him? We also took extra time to take Windex to the windows and mirrors in the morning.
El Correcto
god is dead
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I suspect the two of you have very little, if anything, in common.
oldupsman
Well-Known Member
This used to be my routine every Friday afternoon. My last stop was a pickup. Used to borrow their broom and
sweep out the car. Then when I got back to the hub I would fuel the car myself and run it through the car wash.
Park it in my assign slot. My car washers loved me. Every manager I worked for knew exactly what I was doing
and not one of them ever said a word about it.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
...and then you would pick up a gallon of milk for $.99 and fill up the car at $.59/gal...
oldupsman
Well-Known Member
I gotta admit I enjoyed the 97 strike. 2 weeks off and followed that up with 2 weeks vacation. They even sent me my vacation
check to my house during the strike. I'm sitting there on the 3rd day of the strike on my deck enjoying a cup of coffee.
In pulls a package car with my neighboring centers delivery sup and some young flunky. They had a package for me.
Knew the guy for years. Had him sit down relax, have a cup of coffee and watched all about the strike on CNN. He stayed
for about an hour. Only had like 20 stops on the car. He was enjoying the down time too.
To anyone interested in facts, read Art XII of the IBT Constitution to see how inaccurate this statement is.
Reagan and Bush Sr threatened to invoke Taft Hartley, it never got to that point, and negotiations continued through the '82 extended in '84 through '87 and '90 agreements.
Like him or not, Ron Carey was exonerated of all charges.
I had mail delivered to my home two days after the strike was called. Still can't figure how UPS was able to get pieces printed (non-union printed) and delivered through the US Mail that fast without preprinting before the deadline?
No one said an offer didn't exist, however once again if you've read the IBT Constitution you'd see the committee must by majority vote, accept an offer before it is presented.
If such a letter existed, the Pension Fund, not the Union would be the author. Maybe the poster could dig it up and provide the reading public with a copy.
Ah now we're getting somewhere...the feared APWA. You really don't understand labor law do you? You think these two brain surgeons could deliver on their pie in the sky promises? Do you understand APWA wasn't getting any traction anywhere? If indeed these guys succeeded, the entire National Master is gone. Negotiations start from scratch. No H&W, no Pension, no seniority, no nothing. 75 years of bargaining gone. Plus immediate withdrawal liability on UPS into every Pension Fund, not just CS. You're really living in la la land if you bought their BS.
We voted to join TeamCare and keep a more superior H&W coverage than 95% of employees in this country, including UPS management.
In November another Clinton will become President, and morons who voted Trump as the GOP nominee should take a hard look in the mirror.
BTW, The contract expires July 31, 2018, not next August but I'm getting used to your inaccuracies so carry on in your revisionist imaginary dream world.
Just think, you can be a charter lifetime member of the soon to be published Monkey Butt Monthly, where UPS fantasy tales are fed to the uninformed with relish.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
The strike happened just a little while before I was hired. I've heard that you guys didn't even get to vote on the "best and final offer" at all. Is that true?
Packmule
Well-Known Member
In the game is right about contract date. 2018, not 2017. Got that mixed up with something else. As for Carey, got off with a lifetime ban from union involvement was what the last news I heard said.
He is also technically right that Taft Hartley was threatened, but not invoked. What's the difference? Point was their was a lot of illegal money being passed around between Teamster's and the DNC. It's not hard to connect the dots.
As for strike authorization issues, I'm going off of what our business agent was telling us. And to answer Overpaid's question, no, we did not get to see the company's offer until after we were already on strike. And only then because management brought it out to us on the strike line.
But it's all history. We can with learn from it or be destined to repeat it. My suggestion is under no circumstances should members ever give away their authorization again until they've seen and rejected the company's proposal. If it sucks, vote accordingly and support whatever happens.
Fact is healthcare is about on a par with pensions in terms of dollars involved and importance to people.
In 2018, sticking your head in the sand like so many did in 97 is probably not a good idea.
He is also technically right that Taft Hartley was threatened, but not invoked. What's the difference? Point was their was a lot of illegal money being passed around between Teamster's and the DNC. It's not hard to connect the dots.
As for strike authorization issues, I'm going off of what our business agent was telling us. And to answer Overpaid's question, no, we did not get to see the company's offer until after we were already on strike. And only then because management brought it out to us on the strike line.
But it's all history. We can with learn from it or be destined to repeat it. My suggestion is under no circumstances should members ever give away their authorization again until they've seen and rejected the company's proposal. If it sucks, vote accordingly and support whatever happens.
Fact is healthcare is about on a par with pensions in terms of dollars involved and importance to people.
In 2018, sticking your head in the sand like so many did in 97 is probably not a good idea.
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
The "best and final offer" was a real insult. Almost guaranteed a strike. If UPS had been reasonable with their first offer a strike could have been averted.
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