A MESSAGE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND EX-CUSTOMERS

[ups_vette]

antimatter:
So it's a UPS Division Manager who presents the contract proposal to the union members? If this is the case, tell me why do you have a Union Representative. Are you sure the proposal wasn't given at the union hall, where all other union members received the presentation,
or is it that you think your union representative is a UPS Division Manager?

I believe your powers of recall are much worse than you let us to believe. Allow me to explain, the company (UPS) is represented by a Division Manager while the union (Teamsters) is represented, most times, by your Business Agent. Its the Business Agents responsibility to present the companys offer for a new contract, NOT THE DIVSION MANAGER. You, as a member of the union, then vote to either accept or reject the proposal.

Enjoy your well earned vacation
and I hope when it's over, you can recall what you did.

 

[brownmonster]

Vette, not the Union's job to present the company's offer, but an offer agreed upon by both parties. UPS forgot that these things are usually negotiated.

 

[deliver_man]

vette,
For the record, the "last, best, and final offer" was also presented to us by management in our building. The union was refusing to send it to the members for a vote, and it was an attempt by management to bargain directly with the employees.

 

[laborer]

local480, The wages for full-timers in the July 30 Final Offer was 0 cents, .50 cents, .50 cents, & 0 cents plus 2 bonuses(not sure what they were).

 

[tieguy]

The last best final offers had two bonus years built in and the normal range of pay increases for the others about 50 cents an hour. Along with the retirement funds and full time job issues union members were supposedly not happy with bonuses being offered in leau of hourly wage increases. I will pull out my file and post the details when I have more time. The last time I crunched the profit numbers for the two bonus years friend/ters would have gotten a total of 8 K for the two bonus years. P/ters about half that.

 

[local804]

Very cute letter. I needed a good laugh after a hard days work. I just looked at it again LMAO

 

[tieguy]

Local -

Last best final offer to the part-timers:

Wages -
1)Upon ratification 1.00 per hour and 1530 dollars profit sharing.
2)August 98 & 99 .50 cents an hour
3)August 2000 - profit sharing (formula = 30$ for every .1% of Net Profit Margin for the year 1999.) As you probably know 1999 was avery good year for us.
Heres a link where you can view the financials for 1999. If I'm reading this right net profit was 8.7 % which would equate to 2610 for part-timers in the year 2000.

4)August 2001 - .50 an hour

 

[tieguy]

Full-timers offer Last best final offer -

1) 3060 signing bonus upon ratification.

2) .50 cents an hour in 1998, 1999 and 2001.

3) Profit sharing for 2000 based on formula of 60$ per .1 of net profit margin for the year 1999.
Actual bonus = 5220

Not too shabby.

 

[over9five]

And the reason for the strike?

The Union gets ZERO from any bonus. They make their money based on hourly pay. Bigger raise for us = bigger raise for the Union.

 

[kidlogic]

To look at theses numbers and make a judgement on them is foolish.You have no idea what else was part of those contracts. Until you read the complete contract and see how it will affect the present and future of the workers in every way only then can you pass judgement on it. I will tell you one thing about bonuses. Looks good at first, but if you take the raise over your career the raise is most always more. Plus once you get a raise it is very hard for UPS to go into the next contract and take it away. It is easy to goto the next contract and remove a bonus.

 

[tieguy]

I would agree unfortunately Ron would not allow us the privledge of showing you the rest of the contract.

 

[kidlogic]

Thats good because most people think short term or will take an ok offer near the end of the contract because of pressure. You need to risk in order to gain. Good thing he was there. I mean look at the profit sharing in your post. You dont think that UPS would make large upgrades or purchases during a good year do you to lower its net profit margin. UPS is a smart company. They arent going to give the money away. But Tieguys post looked good until you think about it and most dont. Thanks for your post Tieguy it was a great way to show fellow UPSers how things arent as they appear and how even something that looks so good can be not good at all in a contract. Your a good Teamster!!!!

 

[tieguy]

Actually it did nothing of the kind . You did that on your own. In the process you insult everyones intelligence on this board by thinking no one will see through your little charade. Someone mentioned the financials and asked what they were. I promised to post them. I did so. I'm not interested in going into this game of yours. Where you tell us your a super good ups guy and then act like an . I'm done with this subject and your stupid BS. Take your grade school verbal gymnastics back to the playground kiddie.

 

[dannyboy]

Ive stayed out of this tit for tat discussion for a while, but there is one thing that I must add.

The Teamsters have this notion that we, the hourly, are nothing with out them. One comment that is rampant in discussions with die hard union officials is that "you wouldnt be making what you are without us".

While that might or might not be true for the wages paid at UPS, they are assuming that if I was not paid what I am, that I still would be working at UPS. I guess they think that I am too stupid to get a job somewhere else, or start my own business. It just shows a total lack of respect for who they "represent". In truth, they would be the ones that are nothing without the membership.

Now if the company's offers were so lousy, why did they not share this with us? Are we too stupid to make up our own minds? Its funny, I can make life and death decisions all day long, run my own business on the side, but am too short sighted to understand the long and short of the contract? They wanted to launder the truth and give us the version they wanted us to hear.

d

 

[proups]

We are arguing about something that happened six years ago?????

Feederdryver makes a good point with his original post. Whether we like it or not, 1997 will cost us every time we negotiate a contract. Before 1997, some of our customers would not consider using another carrier. Now they won't take that risk because of what "our" strike cost them.

Feederdryver - you can correct me if I'm missing your point, but I don't think I am.

 

[kidlogic]

Tieguy you make me smile. When faced with a simple rebuttle you turn to name calling. I believe you tosses the first stone by saying " I would agree unfortunately Ron would not allow us the privledge of showing you the rest of the contract. " If you want to make little jabs at your Union co-workers on this board thats ok. But please dont get angry when someone replies with a jab of common sense. And yes someone can have pride in their job and be a Union member.
Danny I dont really think that we would be making what we are making without having a Union.When it come to this job. Not that we dont have the ability to go find another job as good or better. Look at any industry that has union and non-union employees and I bet you will be hard pressed to find a majority that the non-union employees make more. Your point on the Union thinks we are nothing without them..well if that's how you feel then thats your right. I think it works both ways. We need them. They need us. Thats only my opinion. You maybe right.
The comment on letting us see every offer from the company because you think that we are All willing to read the full contract offer and understand it. I have to disagree. I dont know anyone who has read this contract from cover to cover now. We that come to boards like this to get information are not the typical people. Most people would just run through the finacials and make a choice. Thats bad. Most people dont or cant see how a single line in a contract could alter the whole agreement. Just look at the over site on the over 70lbs. packages when first introduced. The company put it in the contract and the Union either over looked it or didnt realize its impact. As a result of something as simple as this we were almost willing to go on an illeagle strike for a day to get this resolved.
Maybe you are willing to take the time to read and understand an offer.I would be willing to do the same. But are you willing to put your job on the line for the other 99% who wont bother to read the offer completely. That when attempting to read the offer they stop on the 3rd line that says $3000 dollar signing bonus and say "where do I sign". I am not. And if your looking for TRUTHin this game of UPS and the Teamsters let me know when you get it from either side so I can frame it and put it on the wall.

 

[kidlogic]

Your right Proups we all are going suffer for the mistake of how that contract was handled. We all can point fingers as to whos fault it was, but in the end it doesnt matter. We ALL need to press on and make sure it never ....ever.....happends again.

 

[antimatter]

Vette,
Deliver-man and I are apparently sharing the same hallucination! Didn't you retire 2 years BEFORE the strike? Or am I fuzzy on that as well. It was presented by our Div. Manager and boy was he nervous! I'll never forget it.

Feederdryver:
Thanks for thinking of me. I had a great time on the Tuolumne river in northern CA for 3 days.

Kidlogic:
Yeah, it's either name-calling or the standard, "we have a business to run".... whenever either occur, you can bet you've won.

A

 

[dannyboy]

Kid

You've made my point. Whats the most that 1 UPS employee is to lift without help? 70 pounds, right? Under the contract, you can get, and the company wants you to get, help with any package over 70.

Now take a 150 pound package. You get help to load it. Now think very carefully, what is each of you lifting, if both are equally sharing the load? You got it! 75 pounds. Now is that not prohibited under the contract? But your/our union leadership agreed to all this garbage.

Just my humble oppinion, but they need us worse than we need them. And when it comes to looking out for your best intrests, they ALLWAYS come second to the well being of the union. And that is what they always have in mind when planing a new contract.

d

 

[kidlogic]

The point on the 70lb package was to show of something that makes very little difference can turn into something extreem and something that the average employee wouldnt be thinking about.Do you realize you just based you opinion on an extra 5 lbs. Your kinda splitting hairs there.(also you are supposed to move an over 70lb with help and by moving it end over end. So you really never lift the total wieght. If you use methods right.You can get a third person also.You really never have to lift more then 70 lbs. if use use your head. I did a 5 minute demo on it last year. Its was good.I got good feed back from it.} Do you really think that the 99% who dont read anything about the contract but are asked to vote on it would could decide your fate better then the Union??? Maybe your right. Maybe I missed a day in class some where in my education. Could you explain it to me. No what ifs or woulda couldas. Explain to me how those Union rep. sell us out every contract and how we could have alot more now if we only let the Union body decide. I mean I try to tell my preloader who would be deciding my fate as well as yours that the last stop of the day shouldnt be piled 5 feet high in front of my bulkhead door and he looks at me like your dog does when you make a high pitched sound. His head tilts to the side and his eyes glaze over. Do you really think he is better to decide your fate??? I have an open mind. Convince me how it is in my best intrest to use your point of view and I will surely as god made little green apples change my mind or reconsidor my stance.