About Those Planes

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
https://web.archive.org/web/2010082...nation-or-fairness-shipping-giants-square-in/

Well, there is a benefit on having a Ground owner posting on here....

Yes, things are a moving in Memphis. Everything is still be kept under hat, but the catalyst was the change in the RLA rules definitions regarding a 50% majority.

Reading the articles I linked, one can fill in many of the missing pieces - though not all.

FedEx is going to beef up the Ground contractor model to weather any potential litigation against it. By eliminating sole proprietorships and the limited liability corps and partnerships, FedEx is attempting to close the last remaining loopholes which could result in its being found to be the employer of Ground drivers and not the "owners" of the routes.

There are BIG implications in how FedEx compensates Ground contractors which are in play here. LLC, LLP and sole proprietorships aren't double taxed - they are only taxed on earnings that are distributed to partners. This means that the current compensation model of Ground will have to change, since many contractors which are barely making it through only being taxed once, will now be forced to pay corporate taxes on their profits. This means that FedEx is going to have to up its payments to the owners in order for them to maintain the same level of relative profitability. Translation, this move is going to cost FedEx some rather large bucks. This tells one that FedEx isn't doing this lightly, they have serious strategic reasons for taking on this additional expense.

For those that are already incorporated, this will mean that their net profitability will increase. For those that are operating with one of the limited liability models, their "in-pocket" profit margin should remain the same, but their administrative overhead will increase substantially. The desire of FedEx is to have all owners incorporated, owning a fairly significant number of routes and operating with all of the "appearances" of a truly independent entity.

As a side note, one of the articles references the cost to deliver a piece for UPS and Ground. The difference is $1.25. I posted earlier how Ground drivers could be paid close to UPS wages if only FedEx increased rate charged on each piece by $1.00. So QED on that one.

The next part of this story is the contracts for the new aircraft. I've been told that the opt out clause only applies if Express loses its RLA classification, NOT if the definitions of what constitutes a majority vote are changed (administrative ruling). This means that Express may very well be in the situation of being on the hook for Boeing aircraft (which despite what people think, aren't optimal for FedEx, Airbus aircraft are), while having to deal with a successful organization effort by the Teamsters. It does look like Fred got out maneuvered by the NLRB on this one - thus why the relative silence out of Memphis regarding this critical change. The Boeing deal was the proverbial carrot to Congress to keep FedEx's status under RLA. The word is that Memphis feels the change in the definitions for certification was an end-run on the 'deal', so FedEx is looking to do damage control. Fred didn't get what he thought he was paying for it seems.

The economy isn't looking to tank, but it is looking anemic. There isn't going to be a spike in oil prices as occurred 2 years ago. The economic turmoil in Europe and the collapsing Euro is actually having the effect of keeping oil prices low. Despite the fact that oil prices are quoted in USD, with the decline in the Euro, the price per barrel has actually fallen slightly, showing more of a linkage between the Euro and the price per barrel that would otherwise be indicated. So FedEx isn't facing the "crisis" that it did two years ago due to energy prices.

The reason for the secret... well that is speculation right now. WSJ had the info Thursday it appears and posted their article regarding the changes Friday afternoon. There are definate implications for Express though. If what I'm hearing is correct, the "Master Plan" will be put into effect if the Teamsters manage to get a vote under the new definitions. Express is already making plans for a union vote later this year or early next year and wants to be in a position to minimize any impact this may have on its business model.

The Teamsters had better get cracking, because 6 months from now, there won't be full-time wage employees to unionize if Express keeps on moving like this. The wage employees also need to start moving and get talking to their Teamsters local to get cards signed to try to prevent what Express is covertly attempting.

Quoting out of the Commercial Appeal article:

"The Teamsters and UPS are out to get most FedEx Express workers shifted to a labor law that FedEx officials believe would jeopardize the company's famed reliability."

"If that were to happen, I can promise you that the board of directors of FedEx Corp. would reduce the amount that we invest in (FedEx Express) to the point where it was just purely a sustenance level," Smith said in a recent interview with The Commercial Appeal."

End Quote

It is already appearent that this has been happening for awhile for equipment in DGO.

Things to look for at Express: full-time vacancies not being filled or being filled with two part-timers, increasing use of rental vehicles - Express doesn't want to be stuck with new expensive equipment - reasons are obvious, increase use of video propaganda directed towards Express employees.

Ground: expansion of facilities, incentives to add new routes by the operators which are incorporated - CASH incentives, cash payments to operators for the purpose of providing some minimal level of benefits which satisfies the requirement for health care coverage by full-time employers. In general, an expansion of Ground operations.

FedEx is attempting to head off the impact of Express certifying a union, which Memphis now believes to be more likely than not.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Oh, and I don't usually like to do this (yeah right), but, I TOLD YOU SO.:happy-very::happy-very:

I've always agreed with you that Fred would sell us down the river in a heartbeat, and now it looks like that's exactly what he's planning on doing. You "believers" out there would do well to educate yourselves rather quickly as to the chicanery that is in the works.

I've seen the same thing locally in DGO, with the company claiming it can't afford any vehicles, but paying incredible amounts for rentals. Several of the larger local stations have fleets that are nearly half non-FedEx trucks. My RTD friends say it's the same at the ramps. If a tractor bites the dust, it's replaced with a lease vehicle.

Why buy vehicles when you aren't going to need them? So, where are the Teamsters? If the new Ground model passes the smell test, there won't be any drivers for you to organize because they'll just be fired by the "contractor" (not FedEx) and replaced with fresh stooges.

Yes, you can trust FedEx to always follow it's P-S-P philosophy and think of the employee first. Right. Better start drinking something besides Kool-Aid and see Mr. Smith for exactly the con artist he is.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
A few questions: Can part-timers unionize? And how long, ballpark, would it take to get Ground large enough, system and workforce, to take on our E-2 and Express Saver? And is that all they intend to take?
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
A few questions: Can part-timers unionize? And how long, ballpark, would it take to get Ground large enough, system and workforce, to take on our E-2 and Express Saver? And is that all they intend to take?

Part-timers can unionize. However, when there are part and full time employees in the same craft, they are considered to be a single group for union certification purposes.

The next part is more complicated. Ideally, all Ground terminals would need to be equipped with caster decking to handle air cargo containers. However, there is a short term work around to this. Handlers at the ramps can transload air cargo containers into bulk trailers. In two hours time, five handlers can transload the contents of about 12 AMJs into two bulk trailers. That is 10 man-hours of labor to transload approximately 3000 or so pieces - assuming the typical AMJ piece count of 250 pcs. For Express, that works out to about $160 in labor expense to reconfigure 3000 pcs of volume, or somewhere around 5 cents a piece. If the need arises quickly, they'll do this - they are already paying a good sum for rental vehicles now in DGO, paying 5 cents a piece to transload is an acceptable cost in a short term situation.

With freight transloaded into bulk trailers, it can easily be transported to Ground terminals and unloaded with the existing facilities present. So the issue of freight being in air cargo containers presents no problem for Express in shifting volume to Ground. Once Ground terminals have caster decking, this small expense can be eliminated.

I do believe that the software already exists for the tracking devices that Ground uses to have a software upgrade to be able to accept Express barcodes. The only potential issue is the coding of the delivery address in Express ROADS. I do believe that the ROADS coding is directly transferrable to Ground software though. This means that the Ground routing software can easily take Express address information and convert that into Ground route numbers and stop order determinations. So no issues there for FedEx.

The last thing would be how quickly could Ground expand to take non-overnight volume from Express. This is a wildcard. If the need was pressing enough, FedEx would cover the financing/lending for contractors to purchase new equipment. FedEx knows it cannot press contractors to purchase a large quantity of new equipment on short notice. There is nothing preventing FedEx from purchasing the equipment themselves, then "leasing" it to the contractors until they get the funds to outright purchase the additional trucks.

So the question then is how long would it take from Express announcing it was going to shift the delivery of non-overnight volume to Ground, to actually being able to do it? How fast can FedEx acquire enough trucks for the Ground contractors to use? I'd say 6 to 8 weeks from the point of public announcement to being able to perform the conversion. All of those vehicles that Express is leasing today can just as easily be leased by Ground contractors tomorrow...

Remember, the plan has been in the works for quite sometime. It is all a matter of execution. FedEx knows damn good and well that the moment they announce something like this, that Express Couriers will be lining up to sign union cards - even the Kool Aid consumers. There won't be any announcement on Frontline telling us about the "wonderful changes that are coming to Express", there will be a manager's meeting announcing that delivery of volume is being shifted to Ground, and there won't be much notice.

It takes far longer than 6 to 8 weeks to go from a situation where virtually no employees have signed union cards, to a certification vote, to actual certification, to start talks on a contract, to going through the steps needed for the employees to legally be able to walk out on strike. Fred can move much faster than the employees.

That is why if you want to preserve your job at FedEx (as a wage employee) you need to sign the union card NOW. For those that think that if they don't sign a union card, that maybe Fred will not do what he can to minimize his costs, you need to put down the Kool Aid pitcher and get a reality check. You can read that article out of the Commercial Appeal that states that Ground has a $1.25 cost advantage over UPS per piece delivered. Fred wants the same cost advantage to apply to as many Express packages as possible. Paying Express employees what he is right now, he won't get that cost advantage, forget about it if he has to pay Express employees union wages. Getting a union is the only way wage employees have to assure they have a job with Express that Fred can't 'reorganize' at his whim, down to part-time status.

If Fred does indeed transfer volume to Ground, all Express will need is part-time employees in DGO. Part-timers in the AM to deliver overnight volume, part-timers in the PM to pickup all Express volume. Part-timers are far cheaper than full-timers, can be dumped if they get injured and can be made to work more hours without incurring overtime expense.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Ricochet, are you sure you wouldn't like to be a contractor? You do have a wonderful grasp of what's going on with the company.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Part-timers can unionize. However, when there are part and full time employees in the same craft, they are considered to be a single group for union certification purposes.

The next part is more complicated. Ideally, all Ground terminals would need to be equipped with caster decking to handle air cargo containers. However, there is a short term work around to this. Handlers at the ramps can transload air cargo containers into bulk trailers. In two hours time, five handlers can transload the contents of about 12 AMJs into two bulk trailers. That is 10 man-hours of labor to transload approximately 3000 or so pieces - assuming the typical AMJ piece count of 250 pcs. For Express, that works out to about $160 in labor expense to reconfigure 3000 pcs of volume, or somewhere around 5 cents a piece. If the need arises quickly, they'll do this - they are already paying a good sum for rental vehicles now in DGO, paying 5 cents a piece to transload is an acceptable cost in a short term situation.

With freight transloaded into bulk trailers, it can easily be transported to Ground terminals and unloaded with the existing facilities present. So the issue of freight being in air cargo containers presents no problem for Express in shifting volume to Ground. Once Ground terminals have caster decking, this small expense can be eliminated.

I do believe that the software already exists for the tracking devices that Ground uses to have a software upgrade to be able to accept Express barcodes. The only potential issue is the coding of the delivery address in Express ROADS. I do believe that the ROADS coding is directly transferrable to Ground software though. This means that the Ground routing software can easily take Express address information and convert that into Ground route numbers and stop order determinations. So no issues there for FedEx.

The last thing would be how quickly could Ground expand to take non-overnight volume from Express. This is a wildcard. If the need was pressing enough, FedEx would cover the financing/lending for contractors to purchase new equipment. FedEx knows it cannot press contractors to purchase a large quantity of new equipment on short notice. There is nothing preventing FedEx from purchasing the equipment themselves, then "leasing" it to the contractors until they get the funds to outright purchase the additional trucks.

So the question then is how long would it take from Express announcing it was going to shift the delivery of non-overnight volume to Ground, to actually being able to do it? How fast can FedEx acquire enough trucks for the Ground contractors to use? I'd say 6 to 8 weeks from the point of public announcement to being able to perform the conversion. All of those vehicles that Express is leasing today can just as easily be leased by Ground contractors tomorrow...

Remember, the plan has been in the works for quite sometime. It is all a matter of execution. FedEx knows damn good and well that the moment they announce something like this, that Express Couriers will be lining up to sign union cards - even the Kool Aid consumers. There won't be any announcement on Frontline telling us about the "wonderful changes that are coming to Express", there will be a manager's meeting announcing that delivery of volume is being shifted to Ground, and there won't be much notice.

It takes far longer than 6 to 8 weeks to go from a situation where virtually no employees have signed union cards, to a certification vote, to actual certification, to start talks on a contract, to going through the steps needed for the employees to legally be able to walk out on strike. Fred can move much faster than the employees.

That is why if you want to preserve your job at FedEx (as a wage employee) you need to sign the union card NOW. For those that think that if they don't sign a union card, that maybe Fred will not do what he can to minimize his costs, you need to put down the Kool Aid pitcher and get a reality check. You can read that article out of the Commercial Appeal that states that Ground has a $1.25 cost advantage over UPS per piece delivered. Fred wants the same cost advantage to apply to as many Express packages as possible. Paying Express employees what he is right now, he won't get that cost advantage, forget about it if he has to pay Express employees union wages. Getting a union is the only way wage employees have to assure they have a job with Express that Fred can't 'reorganize' at his whim, down to part-time status.

If Fred does indeed transfer volume to Ground, all Express will need is part-time employees in DGO. Part-timers in the AM to deliver overnight volume, part-timers in the PM to pickup all Express volume. Part-timers are far cheaper than full-timers, can be dumped if they get injured and can be made to work more hours without incurring overtime expense.

I agree with your assessment but I believe part-timers can't be forced to work over 30 hrs. Might we see a Walmart type situation where 32 hrs is considered FT? Gives them the flexibility to work us more without incurring the very expensive OT at union wages. Or maybe they'll structure it so no one works more than 25-30 hrs a week. So maybe bbsam may be right about September. Wow, we get to organize so we can get an hourly wage that'll just get us by on 25-30 hrs a week. If we're lucky. FedEx has simplified courier work down to the point they can hire just about anyone that passes a background check to deliver pkgs. Looks like the courier of the future will be a college kid or housewife looking for a nice part-time job. Making a living doesn't appear to be a company priority. And now that I think of it, customer told me the other day that he saw for the first time Ground airbills that look just like Express airbills. He runs a private mailbox place, just asked me if I had seen them.
 
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SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
Just heard that Express will be offering FO-SAT Service...
This whole thread makes me nervous...
I don't plan on being with Express forever, but I don't want that choice made for me... ;)
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
I agree with your assessment but I believe part-timers can't be forced to work over 30 hrs. Might we see a Walmart type situation where 32 hrs is considered FT? Gives them the flexibility to work us more without incurring the very expensive OT at union wages. Or maybe they'll structure it so no one works more than 25-30 hrs a week. So maybe bbsam may be right about September. Wow, we get to organize so we can get an hourly wage that'll just get us by on 25-30 hrs a week. If we're lucky. FedEx has simplified courier work down to the point they can hire just about anyone that passes a background check to deliver pkgs. Looks like the courier of the future will be a college kid or housewife looking for a nice part-time job. Making a living doesn't appear to be a company priority. And now that I think of it, customer told me the other day that he saw for the first time Ground airbills that look just like Express airbills. He runs a private mailbox place, just asked me if I had seen them.

Part timers can be intimidated into working whatever local management feel they can get away with. This coming peak, see if a part-timer (presuming Express is still delivering P2) can turn down working outside their regularily scheduled hours. Full timers have always known that they had to work all hours scheduled, as long as they didn't violate DOT hours of service limitations. In the past few years, management has used whatever tactics it pleases to get part-timers to work as many hours as needed to get volume taken care of. They call it "operational need" - it is harassment. I've experienced it first hand.

Part timers are pushed to take hours since they don't get into overtime territory as easily as full time employees. When part-timers volunteer for additional hours, great. However, trying to say no is near impossible if management has volume to be moved and they don't want to call in full-timers or have them go into overtime territory. When the 'system' has a hiccup (delayed flights, weather delays, misrouted packages), part-timers are pressed into staying past their regularily scheduled hours. This may seem to not be an issue to most, but the majority of part-timers (myself included) have other obligations outside of Express. We aren't getting the protections of full-time employees, neither should we have the oblilgations of full time employees. I don't appreciate having my schedule being changed at a whim of management. In the past they couldn't do this - now it is regular practice. The full-timers know that they are directly tied to operational need, the part-timers shouldn't be treated like this - since we have obligations outside of FedEx which made part-time employment the only option. Express moved the goal posts, so now all wage employees are on the hook if the system has a hiccup. As for GFT... look at the list of things that aren't covered by GFT. You have the right to seek 'redress of grievances'... except on the grievances which may affect Express' bottom line, then no chance Charlie.

Each state has its own laws regarding what can be classified as full-time employment and what is classified as part-time employment.

You are still attempting to rationalize the situation by seeking an optimum solution for yourself. There is no optimal solution outside of a binding contract of employment. Right now, every employee of Express is subject to the whims of upper management, all the way from pay progression, the joke of a pension plan now in place, how much they must pay in benefit premiums to what is considered to be 'fair treatment'. The pilots and upper management have a contract that covers their employment, why not the wage employees? Are the wage employees so disposable that they aren't even worthy of having an employment contract? (you already know the answer to that).

There is only one solution for the wage employees, certify a union and gain a contract of employment. All the quibbling over what may be contained in a contract is just distraction and petty individual interest. As individuals, the wage employees are literally screwed, as a union with a contract, the wage employees have a say in what their terms of employment will be.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Part timers can be intimidated into working whatever local management feel they can get away with. This coming peak, see if a part-timer (presuming Express is still delivering P2) can turn down working outside their regularily scheduled hours. Full timers have always known that they had to work all hours scheduled, as long as they didn't violate DOT hours of service limitations. In the past few years, management has used whatever tactics it pleases to get part-timers to work as many hours as needed to get volume taken care of. They call it "operational need" - it is harassment. I've experienced it first hand.

Part timers are pushed to take hours since they don't get into overtime territory as easily as full time employees. When part-timers volunteer for additional hours, great. However, trying to say no is near impossible if management has volume to be moved and they don't want to call in full-timers or have them go into overtime territory. When the 'system' has a hiccup (delayed flights, weather delays, misrouted packages), part-timers are pressed into staying past their regularily scheduled hours. This may seem to not be an issue to most, but the majority of part-timers (myself included) have other obligations outside of Express. We aren't getting the protections of full-time employees, neither should we have the oblilgations of full time employees. I don't appreciate having my schedule being changed at a whim of management. In the past they couldn't do this - now it is regular practice. The full-timers know that they are directly tied to operational need, the part-timers shouldn't be treated like this - since we have obligations outside of FedEx which made part-time employment the only option. Express moved the goal posts, so now all wage employees are on the hook if the system has a hiccup. As for GFT... look at the list of things that aren't covered by GFT. You have the right to seek 'redress of grievances'... except on the grievances which may affect Express' bottom line, then no chance Charlie.

Each state has its own laws regarding what can be classified as full-time employment and what is classified as part-time employment.

You are still attempting to rationalize the situation by seeking an optimum solution for yourself. There is no optimal solution outside of a binding contract of employment. Right now, every employee of Express is subject to the whims of upper management, all the way from pay progression, the joke of a pension plan now in place, how much they must pay in benefit premiums to what is considered to be 'fair treatment'. The pilots and upper management have a contract that covers their employment, why not the wage employees? Are the wage employees so disposable that they aren't even worthy of having an employment contract? (you already know the answer to that).

There is only one solution for the wage employees, certify a union and gain a contract of employment. All the quibbling over what may be contained in a contract is just distraction and petty individual interest. As individuals, the wage employees are literally screwed, as a union with a contract, the wage employees have a say in what their terms of employment will be.

No, I'm asking you questions and you want to turn it into something personal. As to part-timers, there apparently were lawsuits over forcing part-timers to work fulltime hrs without FT benefits. Part-timers are now limited to 30 hrs, except if they choose to work more. But they can't be forced, and there's no wink-and-a-nod "choose to." If mgrs at your station are forcing PT's to work more than 30, they are in violation of policy, and there's no "station needs" involved. But, as usual, unless a mgr is called on it, they'll try to take advantage of employees' lack of knowledge of their rights.

In no way am I suggesting we don't need a union. If FedEx does go forward with this plan, we'll need as high an hourly rate as possible. For the life of me, I don't get some of you. I've pointed this out in the past, that if the legislation is signed into law that FedEx will most likely set in motion plans to minimize the union 's impact. That the one thing they care about most is protecting the stock price. That pushing them to give us UPS comparable pay and benefits will cause them to restructure how they do business. That they can't afford to pay that and still maintain profits, and if you look at their current profits they can't afford to pay 50,000+ employees that kind of money and not go bankrupt. I was just stating the obvious and for that I get excoriated. Well, they aren't waiting to see how things will turn out. Just the possibility of a union has them on the move. We need a union all right, just to get us as high a hourly rate as we can get. Otherwise many of us will be looking for a fulltime job in a lousy economy. And many of us will probably be looking for work anyways by the time they're through. Unintended consequences. If somehow they stretch this out for another year just maybe I can get some bills paid off. And lest you think I'm only thinking of myself I suggest everyone better bear down and get yourself out of debt.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
No, I'm asking you questions and you want to turn it into something personal. As to part-timers, there apparently were lawsuits over forcing part-timers to work fulltime hrs without FT benefits. Part-timers are now limited to 30 hrs, except if they choose to work more. But they can't be forced, and there's no wink-and-a-nod "choose to." If mgrs at your station are forcing PT's to work more than 30, they are in violation of policy, and there's no "station needs" involved. But, as usual, unless a mgr is called on it, they'll try to take advantage of employees' lack of knowledge of their rights.

In no way am I suggesting we don't need a union. If FedEx does go forward with this plan, we'll need as high an hourly rate as possible. For the life of me, I don't get some of you. I've pointed this out in the past, that if the legislation is signed into law that FedEx will most likely set in motion plans to minimize the union 's impact. That the one thing they care about most is protecting the stock price. That pushing them to give us UPS comparable pay and benefits will cause them to restructure how they do business. That they can't afford to pay that and still maintain profits, and if you look at their current profits they can't afford to pay 50,000+ employees that kind of money and not go bankrupt. I was just stating the obvious and for that I get excoriated. Well, they aren't waiting to see how things will turn out. Just the possibility of a union has them on the move. We need a union all right, just to get us as high a hourly rate as we can get. Otherwise many of us will be looking for a fulltime job in a lousy economy. And many of us will probably be looking for work anyways by the time they're through. Unintended consequences. If somehow they stretch this out for another year just maybe I can get some bills paid off. And lest you think I'm only thinking of myself I suggest everyone better bear down and get yourself out of debt.

Part-timer abuse is a fact, 30-hr policy or not. If the manager has a part-timer go over 30 it shows-up on a report and must be explained. In other words, operational need would still work as an reason. Part-timers are still being arm-twisted or threatened into working when they don't want to every single day. If a manager has a hole in the schedule, they're going to do whetever it takes to fill-it, even if that includes intimidation or harassment.

As far as the union thing goes, it's my opinion that the Master Plan to switch E2 and SOS over to Ground has always been in the works. Impending unionization is just speeding things up a bit. As others have pointed-out, the stumbling block has been the legal battle over at Ground. If Fred can make it all above board, I also think you'll see Express become essentially a company of PT workers. The fact that they are renting huge numbers of vehicles instead of replacing them is a great piece of evidence.

All the more reason to sign that card, because your great and benevolent Smith has always been planning to screw you (again). If he cannot get the kinks worked out of the Ground model we can really stick it to him hard with a union. Ultimately, this is going to blow-up in his face anyway because Ground will never be able to provide decent service to customers used to getting their pkgs on-time. UPS will have more business than they know what to do with. If you see a UPS salesperson, clue them in on what may be going on and twist that knife into Fred's back before he stabs you again.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Part-timer abuse is a fact, 30-hr policy or not. If the manager has a part-timer go over 30 it shows-up on a report and must be explained. In other words, operational need would still work as an reason. Part-timers are still being arm-twisted or threatened into working when they don't want to every single day. If a manager has a hole in the schedule, they're going to do whetever it takes to fill-it, even if that includes intimidation or harassment.

As far as the union thing goes, it's my opinion that the Master Plan to switch E2 and SOS over to Ground has always been in the works. Impending unionization is just speeding things up a bit. As others have pointed-out, the stumbling block has been the legal battle over at Ground. If Fred can make it all above board, I also think you'll see Express become essentially a company of PT workers. The fact that they are renting huge numbers of vehicles instead of replacing them is a great piece of evidence.

All the more reason to sign that card, because your great and benevolent Smith has always been planning to screw you (again). If he cannot get the kinks worked out of the Ground model we can really stick it to him hard with a union. Ultimately, this is going to blow-up in his face anyway because Ground will never be able to provide decent service to customers used to getting their pkgs on-time. UPS will have more business than they know what to do with. If you see a UPS salesperson, clue them in on what may be going on and twist that knife into Fred's back before he stabs you again.
Will you always underestimate what is possible at Ground? Enjoy your part-time job...if you get to keep it.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Will you always underestimate what is possible at Ground? Enjoy your part-time job...if you get to keep it.

I'm a firm believer in the old saying "You Get What You Pay For". As long as Ground is a low-rent operation in terms of wages and potential employees, great service isn't in the tea leaves. Perhaps you have some exceptional drivers, but the Ground people I encounter daily simply don't measure-up.

I'll happily do everything possible to throw a wrench in the works if Smith does this. There are a lot of ways to screw-up a switchover too. Hope you've got comprehensive on your vehicle fleet. My hammer is ready.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Part-timer abuse is a fact, 30-hr policy or not. If the manager has a part-timer go over 30 it shows-up on a report and must be explained. In other words, operational need would still work as an reason. Part-timers are still being arm-twisted or threatened into working when they don't want to every single day. If a manager has a hole in the schedule, they're going to do whetever it takes to fill-it, even if that includes intimidation or harassment.

As far as the union thing goes, it's my opinion that the Master Plan to switch E2 and SOS over to Ground has always been in the works. Impending unionization is just speeding things up a bit. As others have pointed-out, the stumbling block has been the legal battle over at Ground. If Fred can make it all above board, I also think you'll see Express become essentially a company of PT workers. The fact that they are renting huge numbers of vehicles instead of replacing them is a great piece of evidence.

All the more reason to sign that card, because your great and benevolent Smith has always been planning to screw you (again). If he cannot get the kinks worked out of the Ground model we can really stick it to him hard with a union. Ultimately, this is going to blow-up in his face anyway because Ground will never be able to provide decent service to customers used to getting their pkgs on-time. UPS will have more business than they know what to do with. If you see a UPS salesperson, clue them in on what may be going on and twist that knife into Fred's back before he stabs you again.

I really doubt that a company that tap dances like crazy to avoid a union will make itself legally vulnerable by forcing PTer's to work past 30 if they turn all of us into PTer's. Either they say that FT is now anything over 30 and hold their mgrs accountable for keeping us all down to 30-32 except where it's unavoidable, or they make us part-time and hold us under 30. What's their incentive? They do contortions now to avoid paying double time. Time and a half at the much higher union wages is just as much or more. Do you think they'll want to pay $45hr to us to deliver pkgs? On a routine basis? If you are part-time there's no 4X10 shift, you'll get very high pay after 8. My guess is that they'll keep hiring part-timers until they have enough to cover everything efficiently. And if a union can get us much higher pay we'll see alot less turnover. Who'll want to give up a $30hr job that only lasts 5 to 6 hrs a day? But then again, if we manage to get that kind of pay, it'll probably start the clock on an all contractor workforce. FedEx will need time to work out the kinks, but eventually we will all either have to work for a contractor or move on to something else. At that point I believe FedEx will seriously decline, because anyone with something on the ball won't settle for $12hr and no benefits.
 

Brown287

Im not the Mail Man!
There are some decent ground opperations, the problem Bbsam is that there is very little oversite to require that all Ground opperations and employees are properly treated and compensated. You are only as good as your weakest link. Here in California we have two fly by night opperations(OnTrac & Golden State Overnight), both of which will never be of any threat to either UPS or FedEx. Its not due to the prices, their the cheapest in town, but its the level of service. Price is always important, but you Ground guys don't fool yourselves its the level of service you provide that will keep the business.

Talk to a Ground driver and you will quickly see the truth. They are almost all nice and decent people, but they would jump ship in a heartbeat. Ask yourself why that is, they realize that for what they are asked to do on a daily basis they are not properly compensated. When the economy improves and there are other employement opportunities what is a Ground contractor to do I ask.

I do not beleive that the Ground model will survive much longer, and it wont be thanks to the governments worry of how employees are treated. It will be tax revenue that will be its demise. The government will want to go after the tax revenue potential that they are missing out in due to the contractor setup. FedEx will then be forced to combine all opperations and at that point it employees will be in a position to demand better treatment. Good luck!
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
I do not beleive that the Ground model will survive much longer, and it wont be thanks to the governments worry of how employees are treated. It will be tax revenue that will be its demise. The government will want to go after the tax revenue potential that they are missing out in due to the contractor setup. FedEx will then be forced to combine all opperations and at that point it employees will be in a position to demand better treatment. Good luck!

Good point but didn't the IRS drop the 319 million dollar tax penalty that it imposed on Fed Ex? Or was that just for 2002?

And if they still want to collect on back taxes why haven't they gone after Fed Ex more aggressively?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I'm a firm believer in the old saying "You Get What You Pay For". As long as Ground is a low-rent operation in terms of wages and potential employees, great service isn't in the tea leaves. Perhaps you have some exceptional drivers, but the Ground people I encounter daily simply don't measure-up.

I'll happily do everything possible to throw a wrench in the works if Smith does this. There are a lot of ways to screw-up a switchover too. Hope you've got comprehensive on your vehicle fleet. My hammer is ready.
And with the added revenue from express? What then will I get if I'm willing to pay for it. You continue to have a mind fettered to the idea that we at Ground stand forever still as the world swirls around us.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
There are some decent ground opperations, the problem Bbsam is that there is very little oversite to require that all Ground opperations and employees are properly treated and compensated. You are only as good as your weakest link. Here in California we have two fly by night opperations(OnTrac & Golden State Overnight), both of which will never be of any threat to either UPS or FedEx. Its not due to the prices, their the cheapest in town, but its the level of service. Price is always important, but you Ground guys don't fool yourselves its the level of service you provide that will keep the business.

Talk to a Ground driver and you will quickly see the truth. They are almost all nice and decent people, but they would jump ship in a heartbeat. Ask yourself why that is, they realize that for what they are asked to do on a daily basis they are not properly compensated. When the economy improves and there are other employement opportunities what is a Ground contractor to do I ask.

I do not beleive that the Ground model will survive much longer, and it wont be thanks to the governments worry of how employees are treated. It will be tax revenue that will be its demise. The government will want to go after the tax revenue potential that they are missing out in due to the contractor setup. FedEx will then be forced to combine all opperations and at that point it employees will be in a position to demand better treatment. Good luck!
I have seen nothing to suggest that Fedex will have to combins services. What am I missing out on?
 
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