Excuses

[Ghost in the Darkness]

I'm curious to hear some of the excuses for the company not paying over 9.5 grievances. Had a driver in my loop get his denied because they told him he was on an appex route... ironically he got a grievance paid last year. My route was cut 4 days last week and I ran another route where half my work went (that driver was on vacation) and the center manager tells me that driver isn't on the 9.5 list... ironically he is and I will file on Monday for 4 days of 10+ hour dispatches.

I realize being a teamster after many years we often come out on the wrong end of vague contract wording. I love how we always get the bs non-existent fine print excuses. Why do we have to settle with Teamsters always dropping the ball. They want us to file over 9.5 grievances and use 8 hr requests but rarely put up a fight for us when we do. Why aren't we all on the 9.5 list in the first place and the small % of guys who want all the OT take themselves off? Why does the Union tell us that the companies numbers mean nothing to us but then tell us we can only file 9.5 grievances if we were dispatched over 9.5 according to their numbers?

Reading over Article 37 Section 1C it certainly seems to be defending an individual drivers rights. I don't see any exceptions excluding cover drivers, or for being on a route whose driver is or isn't on the 9.5 list, or for a driver covering another when their route is cut, or for a driver with no bid route. Obviously the 9.5 committee isn't getting the point of this contractual agreement and the Union seems to be bending over instead of putting the gloves on.

 

[Jackburton]

People who have been silent for years is the main problem. Lots of people I know in my center, the 9.5 grievance procedure was the first time they have filed. I'm not talking about 3yr drivers, some were, but some were 10-20 year drivers. When people who have never done anything to help the cause until "they" feel they've been wronged, well welcome to the party pal. This crap that's been going on isn't an overnight thing in terms of the production harassment, it's been going on for years. When people talk about "what has the union been doing" I usually respond,"what have you been doing? Have you been filing this whole time?" The responses over whelmingly end up being "no, they won't do anything anyways" I just walk away and shake my head.

Management has done a good job in our center of intimidation, harassment, and "deal making" that most folks are either scared to file or disenfranchised with the union. Did I mention we're a right to work state and the people that pay dues here are less then the ones that don't.

 

[Jones]

People who have been silent for years is the main problem. Lots of people I know in my center, the 9.5 grievance procedure was the first time they have filed. I'm not talking about 3yr drivers, some were, but some were 10-20 year drivers. When people who have never done anything to help the cause until "they" feel they've been wronged, well welcome to the party pal. This crap that's been going on isn't an overnight thing in terms of the production harassment, it's been going on for years. When people talk about "what has the union been doing" I usually respond,"what have you been doing? Have you been filing this whole time?" The responses over whelmingly end up being "no, they won't do anything anyways" I just walk away and shake my head.

Management has done a good job in our center of intimidation, harassment, and "deal making" that most folks are either scared to file or disenfranchised with the union. Did I mention we're a right to work state and the people that pay dues here are less then the ones that don't.

I swear if I had a penny for everytime I've heard that sorry ass excuse I could have retired as a rich man years ago.

 

[packageguy]

Once put on the 9.5 list company stance is anything over 9.5 is a warning letter notice of suspense, and notice of discharge. So once you get OJS those are your numbers. they call it demenstated level of production, if you can not maintain your numbers they are coming after you. That is what was told to me. Has anyone else hear something else.

 

[User Name]

when was the last person terminated for performance. I have 11yrs and never seen it.

 

[Anonymous 10]

when was the last person terminated for performance. I have 11yrs and never seen it.

Never not yet they look for a collection of
other stuff and document it through progressive discipline.

 

[hellfire]

i loved this qoute from our resident union authority JonFrum """"" Maybe the 9.5 language is working exactly as negotiators intended.

The purpose is to allow UPS to work drivers over 9.5 whenever they want.

That's why the restrictions don't apply during November and December.

Or during the first week of violation in the first 5-month period, or during the first week of violation during the second 5-month period.

That's why the restrictions don't apply to drivers who didn't sign up because they were pressured or didn't know any better.

That's why the "tripple time" penalty is really only a time-and-one-half penalty when you examine it.

That's why the 9.5 Committee was allowed to exclude some cover drivers and extended route drivers after the Contract was ratified.

That's why the National Grievance Committee is allowed to ignore almost all 9.5 grievances for months on end, and to settle only a token few, usually with ineffective remedies.

That's why UPS is allowed to violate 9.5 language again and again as if the National Grievance Committee is just there for show.

The 9.5 language is there to give you the false impression that the problem has been, and is being, dealt with."""" Bingo

 

[guinness413]

Once put on the 9.5 list company stance is anything over 9.5 is a warning letter notice of suspense, and notice of discharge. So once you get OJS those are your numbers. they call it demenstated level of production, if you can not maintain your numbers they are coming after you. That is what was told to me. Has anyone else hear something else.

let them try to hold me to #s put up on my "route"...when i was OJSd for 3 days, i had my wholesale,and 3 sections of retail for 135 stops and 4 pickups (total of 15 minutes)with around 65 miles..that was a 8.75 day.......since then there has not been 1 day where i had that exact same dispatch......i have had days where i lose all my retail and have to cross over it to get to another drivers area,days where i get another drivers wholesale when his route is eliminated,days when i have to do a bulk truck and then start my route around noon....every now and then the on car sup will pull me aside and ask what happened yesterday..i always pull out my diary and read to him my big adventure and before i can get through the mess of a dispatch,hes telling me to just leave..they have raised my stop count to 155,my miles have gone up to the high 70s,and i work til 800 every night....but i have stopped caring about taking care of most of my customers..they sometimes see me ,sometimes see a cover driver,they never get serviced at the same time anymore..on a side note,my sup grabbed me for a "talk" last month..i grabbed my steward and we went in....i was over 1.20 ,1.10.1.30 3 days in a row...i pulled out my diary,i did pretty much what my OJS sporh were supposed to be each day(i was ojs @ 16.75)..and i was running 16.9 to about 17.5..but with crazy splits form hell...when i showed him this and my #s,he was like "your stops per hour are fine,its your over allowed"...steward said your #s are meaningless when area changes ..they got into it pretty good,i sat back and smiled..after the "talk" i was leaving building late so i told him i couldnt make all my airs...it was classic...i got observed 3 times that day(that i was aware of)...so to answer your question,"demonstrated level of production" doesnt exist when things change,route changes,#s change..simple..dont be afraid of these people..

 

[Jackburton]

Once put on the 9.5 list company stance is anything over 9.5 is a warning letter notice of suspense, and notice of discharge. So once you get OJS those are your numbers. they call it demenstated level of production, if you can not maintain your numbers they are coming after you. That is what was told to me. Has anyone else hear something else.

And this is why people don't file. Do your job, do it safe, and do it as instructed. Go over 9.5 three days in a week file. There's nothing to fear if you are doing everything that you should be. The people that I've seen that generally fear filing are doing stuff that they shouldn't be in the first place. They can't intimidate you with false accusations, want to ride with me, go for it. I can put my hand on a bible and say that I've told that to 5 sups in the last two years, guess what, they never ride.

Call their bluff and I they call yours, you better have a full house lime you should every time you get in that seat.

 

[packageguy]

And this is why people don't file. Do your job, do it safe, and do it as instructed. Go over 9.5 three days in a week file. There's nothing to fear if you are doing everything that you should be. The people that I've seen that generally fear filing are doing stuff that they shouldn't be in the first place. They can't intimidate you with false accusations, want to ride with me, go for it. I can put my hand on a bible and say that I've told that to 5 sups in the last two years, guess what, they never ride.

Call their bluff and I they call yours, you better have a full house lime you should every time you get in that seat.

I understand what you are saying, but we've had about 9 guys OJSed and all but 1 screwed up if they were doing 20 stops an hour when they got done with there 3 day ride.they were doing 22 -24 stops an hour.

 

[Jackburton]

I understand what you are saying, but we've had about 9 guys OJSed and all but 1 screwed up if they were doing 20 stops an hour when they got done with there 3 day ride.they were doing 22 -24 stops an hour.

So what did they do differently? Did they perform their job the same way when the sup was there when he wasn't ? Did they get their route "massaged"? Did they have one less bulk stop then then normally do? Was the traffic lighter that week, was it spring break? These are the questions they need to ask themselves and the sup. Otherwise it's their own lack of or increase of methods. If thats the case, did they perform them at every stop, every day?

I can't determine why their production went up, could happen to a runner gunner or a time sucker to anything in between. All I can tell you is if the conditions were the same every day and I got roughly the same stops/number of packages every day, my sporh wouldn't change. Unfortunately for the number crushers, it does.

One thing I can tell you, the only sporh I care about is the one between the building and my house. I do everything throughout the day to ensure that doesn't change to 0.

 

[upserr1]

Once put on the 9.5 list company stance is anything over 9.5 is a warning letter notice of suspense, and notice of discharge. So once you get OJS those are your numbers. they call it demenstated level of production, if you can not maintain your numbers they are coming after you. That is what was told to me. Has anyone else hear something else.

also heard same but not aware of anybody being fired for it just another way to harass and intimidate

 

[packageguy]

also heard same but not aware of anybody being fired for it just another way to harass and intimidate

I have not heard of firing anyone yet. but I did see and hear a warning letter for demostrated level of production, from an OJS. I gave him a rebuttal letter, because they gave him work 4 routes over from his route, with signatures and not driver release. He had the same stops (180 stops)

 

[packageguy]

So what did they do differently? Did they perform their job the same way when the sup was there when he wasn't ? Did they get their route "massaged"? Did they have one less bulk stop then then normally do? Was the traffic lighter that week, was it spring break? These are the questions they need to ask themselves and the sup. Otherwise it's their own lack of or increase of methods. If thats the case, did they perform them at every stop, every day?

I can't determine why their production went up, could happen to a runner gunner or a time sucker to anything in between. All I can tell you is if the conditions were the same every day and I got roughly the same stops/number of packages every day, my sporh wouldn't change. Unfortunately for the number crushers, it does.

One thing I can tell you, the only sporh I care about is the one between the building and my house. I do everything throughout the day to ensure that doesn't change to 0.

Honestly I wish I knew, when he is by himself he is 2 - 3 stops under his OJS.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Honestly I wish I knew, when he is by himself he is 2 - 3 stops under his OJS.

Excessive customer contact?

 

[CustomerConcern]

If you run methods, take breaks and lunch for correct amount of time at the right times, meet your p/u compliance, air first then ground (don't do both at one stop), there is no reason to running above a 20 SPORH. I run an avg of 17, drives mgt nuts, overallowed 2+ a day.