Fred Zs * visit, his amicable meeting with PK & JC 42s fury!

[realbrown1]

Telling jokes about TDU people, isn't funny anymore.

It's kind of sad.

Why are you so afraid of TDU?

I am not.

The union never was better than it was under Carey.

He stood up to companies and fought for improved contracts and not concessions.

Remember, if it wasn't for RON CAREY, every UPS person would have been taken out of their UNION PENSIONS and moved into a new UPS pension plan.

Every UPSer, out of every teamster pension plan.

Remember that.

How many Teamster pension plans would have failed by now if CAREY would have pulled an H and rolled over?

That's a cheap shot.

I will always defend the Constitution.... it's principals.... and the Bill of Rights.



-Bug-

Tell that to the cheerleaders.

They seem to forget that the Teamsters used to always back Republicans.

 

[Bubblehead]

Remember, if it wasn't for RON CAREY, every UPS person would have been taken out of their UNION PENSIONS and moved into a new UPS pension plan.

Every UPSer, out of every teamster pension plan.

Remember that.

How many Teamster pension plans would have failed by now if CAREY would have pulled an H and rolled over?

That reminds me, there is a question that I (and others subsequently) have asked repeatedly, that has gone unanswered by those who claim to be "in the know", so I'll ask it yet again.

According to @LagunaBrown, the Western Pension is "fully funded and in the green" (and btw, there are others) .
How is it that these funds were able to insulate themselves from the perils of deregulation in the 80's and the turbulence of the stock market over the past decade to remain healthy and vibrant, while the Central States Fund and others are on the brink of collapse?

Makes me wonder whether they can't answer the question, or they just don't want to?
(It's probably TDU's fault)

 

[BigUnionGuy]

How is it that these funds were able to insulate themselves from the perils of deregulation in the 80's

They didn't have nearly the same amount, of Unionized trucking companies ?

Prior to deregulation.... my Local had 75 +.



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

They didn't have nearly the same amount, of Unionized trucking companies ?

Prior to deregulation.... my Local had 75 +.



-Bug-

If that's the case, and I kind of doubt it, answer this question.

If a union trucking company has its doors open for 50 years and pays full contributions for those years for every employee, then subsequently goes out of business, how can they have "continuing liability"?

Were their contributions under negotiated, or are these pension funds just elaborate, barely "legal" (for now) ponzi schemes?

 

[realbrown1]

If that's the case, and I kind of doubt it, answer this question.

If a union trucking company has its doors open for 50 years and pays full contributions for those years for every employee, then subsequently goes out of business, how can they have "continuing liability"?

Were their contributions under negotiated, or are these pension funds just elaborate, barely "legal" (for now) ponzi schemes?

I'll answer that.

Because these pensions were set up like ponzi schemes.

The money from the newer, younger workers pay for some of the benefits of the older, retired workers.

It shouldn't be that way.

It is what happens when you co-mingle all the money.

That pension money should be in individual accounts.

 

[realbrown1]

Since neither BUG nor the OG cheerleaders have chosen to respond to a previous post of mine, I would like to add this.

TDU backed leaders (Ron Carey) do not allow Teamsters to be pulled out of Teamster pension plans (UPS 1997 strike).

TDU backed leaders (Ron Carey) fight and if need be, STRIKE to keep those members in TEAMSTER PENSION PLAN.

Right there is the main differences between TDU backed leader (Ron Carey) and the OG backed so called leader H.

H lets companies take their teamster employees out of Teamster pension plans (UPS).

H lets companies stop paying into Teamster pension plans (YRC)

H lets companies start other pension plans for their employees, so they do not have to join a Teamster pension plan (UPS Freight).

Now everyone on BC can see the difference between a TDU backed candidate (Fred Z) and the OG backed, sell out, give back, never strike, pension collapsing candidate H.

 

[Inthegame]

If a union trucking company has its doors open for 50 years and pays full contributions for those years for every employee, then subsequently goes out of business, how can they have "continuing liability"?

Because plans improve monthly benefits along the way, often because of political pressure and advantage and not fiscal prudence.
If in your scenario that benefit hadn't changed for 50 years, your premise would be accurate. But even responsible Trustees must not only rely on future acturarial projections (as the law mandates) but can be legally forced to improve benefits when possible. Unfortunately those same trustees don't have crystal balls to predict employers going belly up. So in that aspect it is a crap shoot.
So as a plan increases benefit payments, the contributing employers unfunded (withdrawal) liability increases, then if that employer goes out of business, that plan is left holding the bag and never receives those obligations. Most plans can withstand some failures, but not on the level CS suffered.

 

[realbrown1]

Another Teamster pension plan is teetering on the brink of insolvency under H.

The New York Conference of Teamster Pension plan announced it is in CRITICAL AND DECLINING STATUS.

This is the legacy of H.

17 years in office, and he has done what to save any pension plan?

Nothing, nada and zilch.

They are falling like dominoes and H is running for re-election.

And the worst part of the whole thing is, H STILL HAS PEOPLE BACKING HIM.

Makes me think, that they are backing him because they are being bought off.

BUG, you or any of the OG cheerleaders have any answer for why you are backing H with his horrible record?

 

[realbrown1]

Central States Pension plan just announced proposed cuts for TEAMSTER RETIREES will be 60% to 70%.

Under H, it just gets better and better.

This is what you get when you give the Old Guard unbridled power for 17 years.

It is long past time for change?

Wouldn't you agree BUG?

 

[realbrown1]

Because plans improve monthly benefits along the way, often because of political pressure and advantage and not fiscal prudence.
If in your scenario that benefit hadn't changed for 50 years, your premise would be accurate. But even responsible Trustees must not only rely on future acturarial projections (as the law mandates) but can be legally forced to improve benefits when possible. Unfortunately those same trustees don't have crystal balls to predict employers going belly up. So in that aspect it is a crap shoot.
So as a plan increases benefit payments, the contributing employers unfunded (withdrawal) liability increases, then if that employer goes out of business, that plan is left holding the bag and never receives those obligations. Most plans can withstand some failures, but not on the level CS suffered.

Who designs pensions so that they can improve their monthly benefits under political pressure?

This is how PONZI SCHEMES work.

It's time for an overhaul of how every Teamster pension plan should work.

 

[Bubblehead]

Because plans improve monthly benefits along the way, often because of political pressure and advantage and not fiscal prudence.

...and conversely ignore issues that have been apparent for a decade or more?

If in your scenario that benefit hadn't changed for 50 years, your premise would be accurate. But even responsible Trustees must not only rely on future acturarial projections (as the law mandates) but can be legally forced to improve benefits when possible. Unfortunately those same trustees don't have crystal balls to predict employers going belly up. So in that aspect it is a crap shoot.
So as a plan increases benefit payments, the contributing employers unfunded (withdrawal) liability increases, then if that employer goes out of business, that plan is left holding the bag and never receives those obligations. Most plans can withstand some failures, but not on the level CS suffered.

So, then are you saying in a nut shell that the retirees from these companies were promised too much, while their companies were paying in too little during their time in business before they closed the doors?

I still don't understand how if a company is in business for 50 years, pays the negotiated rate into the pension fund all the way up to the last day they are in business, how they could have any withdraw liability.
How have they not met their obligation to the fund?

 

[Inthegame]

Who designs pensions so that they can improve their monthly benefits under political pressure?

This is how PONZI SCHEMES work.

It's time for an overhaul of how every Teamster pension plan should work.

The former IBT President Ron Carey (whom I voted for) improved pension benefits under political pressure with the service pension for all fiasco.

PONZI SCHEMES operate and fail because incoming funds are paid out and not invested. A properly run pension with professional investors will operate indefinitely.

The Pension Protection act of 2006 attempted and has been somewhat successful in overhauling Pension plans.

 

[Spongebob1]

Central States Pension plan just announced proposed cuts for TEAMSTER RETIREES will be 60% to 70%.

Under H, it just gets better and better.

This is what you get when you give the Old Guard unbridled power for 17 years.

It is long past time for change?

Wouldn't you agree BUG?

 

[realbrown1]

The former IBT President Ron Carey (whom I voted for) improved pension benefits under political pressure with the service pension for all fiasco.

PONZI SCHEMES operate and fail because incoming funds are paid out and not invested. A properly run pension with professional investors will operate indefinitely.

The Pension Protection act of 2006 attempted and has been somewhat successful in overhauling Pension plans.

Lots of leaders improve monthly pension payouts without the funds to justify it.

If the rules are that loose, they need to change.

H hasn't done squat in nearly 17 years to solve this problem.

And I doubt he will do anything in the future as Teamster pension plans start falling like dominos.

 

[Spongebob1]

This is what you get when you give the Old Guard unbridled power for 17 years

I'm asking my brothers and sisters to help me vote this -do-nothing J.H- out of office!!

 

[realbrown1]

I wonder where BUG and the OG cheerleaders are?

Hiding in shame if they have half a brain.

They are as much to blame as H.

Without his supporters, he doesn't win the last election.

So they should share the blame.

 

[Spongebob1]

...and conversely ignore issues that have been apparent for a decade or more?

It's obvious to me it's been ignored for years,..... I have some friends that are retired, and when I see the look of worry and devastation on their face, and them wondering how they are gonna make it in there later yrs, some have nest eggs, but they weren't planing on living on it so soon,.....

 

[Spongebob1]

I wonder where BUG and the OG cheerleaders are?

Hiding in shame if they have half a brain.

They are as much to blame as H.

Without his supporters, he doesn't win the last election.

So they should share the blame.

They are like sheep,....they do what they are told!!

 

[By The Book]

It's obvious to me it's been ignored for years,..... I have some friends that are retired, and when I see the look of worry and devastation on their face, and them wondering how they are gonna make it in there later yrs, some have nest eggs, but they weren't planing on living on it so soon,.....

If there's a hog, I want to live as high on it as I can....kinda thing?

 

[realbrown1]

If there's a hog, I want to live as high on it as I can....kinda thing?

How many years have you worked at UPS?

It's not easy work.

In my almost 30 years with the company, I have seen 1 driver make it to 60 when they retired.

Right now, UPS puts in over $17000 a year per driver into the pension fund.

That should fund a fairly nice pension WITH OUT GOING BROKE.

No one is asking for a hand out or anything they didn't deserve, so a little more respect before you make a fool out of yourself with a post like that.