Gov healthcare

[klein]

I suppose that it was to much to ask for an answer to my questions.
Interesting so your claim now is that if 250000 doctors stopped practicing medicine that 200 a year coming from Canada is somehow a good thing? Very strange indeed.
Why will they quit ? Because of decrease of income, I assume ?
In the real world if demand remains constant and you decrease supply it has a relationship to price. Can I get a guess as to what that relationship may be? In a Country like yours the government uses it's force to limit demand by creating long waits for the services your people need. A better system would be a free market. If you must have government involved you could demand that they limit barriers to the market.
Then it should be easy to get healthcare costs down. Educate and train more doctors, but that again, will lead to many quitting, because of lack of income ? With every doctor being able to see a patient in a couple of hours, it could go down just to walk in and get served immediatly. There would be empty waiting rooms for patients to come in, and incourage everyone to come back for a re-check. Or they could simply go out of business.


What I can say for the US is that a "wait time" here is a couple hours not several months. This is a primary reason that we have vastly superior health care.
Wait time to see a GP here, is no different then in the US. Emergency Care is also just like the US.
Where the difference lies, is a waiting time for non-emergency surgeries, or MRI's, and pre-care diagnoses (seeing a specialist, when it's non urgent or just routine special check-up).
If the goal of our government was to reduce the costs for health care which it is not they would be looking for ways to reduce the fixed costs to provide the services (think tort reform), increase competition (think selling insurance across lines), decrease demand( think taxing health insurance), does this mean you want more americans without health insurance ?
and increase supply(think something along the lines of allowing a PA to set up minor medical shops on their own).
If you watched the above video, from our healthcare providers, will that solution of yours bring down administration costs to 1.3 cents per healthcare dollar like us, or will you still spend over 30 cents per dollar on it ?
And what will it take to bring pharma costs down, to atleast our prices ?
Sounds to me like the republican plans that have been blocked by the Dims. Meanwhile the dims want to increase taxes, provide penalties to people who have adequate insurance, and provide more barriers to the markets while driving out current providers. Sounds stupid to me kinda like your system.

Last night, for the fun of it I googled "healthcare crises", then to make it even more interessting, I narrowed my search to Canada websites only. I couldn't come accross 1 single website, saying we have a healthcare crises here. Couldn't even find a European one.
They were all about America.
So, you have a crises ! Not us, or hardly anyone else for that matter !

I came accross some statatics, too. 1 out of every 6 US dollars in spent on healthcare. If nothing is done in 30 years, it will be 1 out of 3 dollars. But, ofcourse thats unrealistic, because no way will that kind of money be there to pay for it.

The average cost for an employer is $1155.00 per month per employee for Healthcare Insurance. Which should raise to $1500.00 within only a few years.
And, yet you wonder why no new jobs ???????

You should really watch that above cdn video again. I'm like the 3rd person that speaks in it.
He truely represents my opinion.

I don't give a damm. It only hurts yourselfs.

PS: Almost every other country on this planet sees healthcare as a right.
In the US, it's a previledge. But, thats the good ole' american way. You can keep it, too.

 

[moreluck]

"Last night, for the fun of it I googled "healthcare crises", "

For the fun of it ??? Don't you have TV where you live. You can't escape the topic on TV except to watch Frasier re-runs.

Wahoo !! Fun time on St. Paddy's Day Eve for you!! Can't wait to see what you have planned for today, St. Patrick's Day.......a trip to the library??

 

[wkmac]

[video=youtube;jwBvweLjBCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwBvweLjBCE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[Babagounj]

Klien want some more fun.

look for the speeches where bho claims that employers costs will decrease by 3000% and raises will be given to workers.
and the one where he claims that a woman did the right thing by getting the best medical coverage she could by raising her deduction to the min. amount.

 

[klein]

Klien want some more fun.

look for the speeches where bho claims that employers costs will decrease by 3000% and raises will be given to workers.
and the one where he claims that a woman did the right thing by getting the best medical coverage she could by raising her deduction to the min. amount.

In a nutshell, if everything was perfect, and the high national debt wasn't a concern.
I do believe US workers could get 50% of those employers healthcare constributions back as extra pay.
(average $1150 minus 50% = $575 in the workers pocket every month).

Just take out the overtesting (lots of Doctors perform them, just to earn more money, since they are paid by procedure, and also for laibilty reasons).
Then there is the huge amount of time spent (45%), of your doctors visit, that goes towards processing your bill to the insurance company.
And the huge administration costs there as well, too.

Baba, if you got that $1155.00 every month extra as net pay (yes net pay, it's non taxable ), wouldn't you do everything you could to get cheaper insurance ? But, yet, you couldn't find it ? Because group insurance (UPS or any company), is cheaper, then by itself.
Wouldn't you be asking questions, why so much ? And how can we reduce it ?
Or not purchase any at all, and do it like the rest. Just go to ER, when neccesary ?
That ofcourse are costs, the hospitals in return pay for, and in the end charge insurance companies, even more for medical procedures and treatment, for the insured.
That would ofcourse lead insurance rates to go up even further, and further, and others to opt out as well.
An endless cycle, until it's finally demolished.

Therefor, the must have insurance, may not be a bad bet, afterall.
Beats big government, right ?????

 

[moreluck]

Well, D.K. flipped and all Odrama had to do was give him a plane ride. Cleveland, do your duty !!!

I've seen that little troll since I was in high school. Time for him to find another job.

 

[tieguy]

[video=youtube;jwBvweLjBCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwBvweLjBCE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I'm kind of surprised to the avenger come out in support albeit indirect support of government run health care. But then he spends so much time bashing conservatives I probably missed his position.
what is his political position? Liberal, libertarian spiteful conservative?

 

[klein]

I'm kind of surprised to the avenger come out in support albeit indirect support of government run health care. But then he spends so much time bashing conservatives I probably missed his position.
what is his political position? Liberal, libertarian spiteful conservative?

He bashes both government parties. But that was was surely an easy target !

 

[av8torntn]

Last night, for the fun of it I googled "healthcare crises", then to make it even more interessting, I narrowed my search to Canada websites only. I couldn't come accross 1 single website, saying we have a healthcare crises here. Couldn't even find a European one.
They were all about America.
So, you have a crises ! Not us, or hardly anyone else for that matter !

.

Don't think that just because I deleted the rest of your post that it is not also false. When I first read this I thought that maybe your goggle-fu was horrible but I did a goggle search(not to mention that I have already linked to several articles related to this subject on this thread) and first hit got 11 million hits.

Here

I now think that you have decided to be purposely dishonest much like the other side, brown shark, and brown puppy.

Here are a couple more articles about the horrible system they have in Canada.

CCRG

Wait time at all time high despite Canada pouring Billions of dollars into their system.

 

[klein]

Don't think that just because I deleted the rest of your post that it is not also false. When I first read this I thought that maybe your goggle-fu was horrible but I did a goggle search(not to mention that I have already linked to several articles related to this subject on this thread) and first hit got 11 million hits.

Here

I now think that you have decided to be purposely dishonest much like the other side, brown shark, and brown puppy.

Here are a couple more articles about the horrible system they have in Canada.

CCRG

Wait time at all time high despite Canada pouring Billions of dollars into their system.

Yeah... I did say websites FROM Canada.
I do admit the last one is Canadian, the first 2 aren't.
Same old, same old, wait times, that they are working on. I know that.
And , I do believe since 2007 (that last article) things have improved. I shall see next time healthcare is mentioned here, in the media, nationwide.

Well, it's not all that bad, never really effected me, or anyone I know, not even my mother, that had to have major surgery just over 2 years ago (broken hip).
And honestly, I think Canadians rather wait, then to see the healthcare system going broke infront of thier own eyes, like yours.
And, only having 70% of residents insured.
Like don't you ever worry, when your kids are on thier own, don't have healthcare coverage, and they might become major ill, then can't afford the treatments they need ? (and don't give me this free ER stuff, that's only a quickfix, after that, they might need costly medication, or more treatment). Almost any american could lose thier house and home, just to support one of thier close relatives, for such a need.

Btw: Not that I care that much, but it seems the US healthcare bill just got closer to reality. :

Obama wins critic over to health overhaul
Wed Mar 17, 12:17 PM

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A fierce Democratic foe of the White House's historic health care overhaul said Wednesday he would vote for the bill, citing a fear that defeating the measure would destroy Barack Obama's presidency.

Or this from yesterday :

Bill Clinton: Obama's health overhaul must pass
Tue Mar 16, 7:23 PM

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Bill Clinton predicted Tuesday that President Barack Obama's historic health care overhaul will become law, even as top Democrats hunted for the elusive votes to pass the sweeping measure.

But, what would Bill Clinton know ?
The last president that had a budget and trade surplus.
The good old days.

 

[klein]

For the fun of it ??? Don't you have TV where you live. You can't escape the topic on TV except to watch Frasier re-runs.[/SIZE]

Wahoo !! Fun time on St. Paddy's Day Eve for you!! Can't wait to see what you have planned for today, St. Patrick's Day.......a trip to the library??

My plan today, drink green beer, until my face, neck , tummy (and another body part, that it flows thru), turns the same color ! LMAO !!!

 

[av8torntn]

I couldn't come accross 1 single website, saying we have a healthcare crises here. Couldn't even find a European one.

Google search "Canadian health care crisis" nets 11,700,00 results.

Google search "European health care crisis" nets 1,550,000 results.

 

[klein]

Google search "Canadian health care crisis" nets 11,700,00 results.

Google search "European health care crisis" nets 1,550,000 results.

Pages FROM Canada :
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADSA_enCA336CA337&q=canadian+health+care+crisis&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryCA&aq=friend&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Results 1 - 10 of about 162,000 for canadian health care crisis

And, it's just the worldwide known facts. Babyboomer retiring, future doctor shortage,and wait times, etc.
Nothing as severe as in the US.

 

[tieguy]

He bashes both government parties. But that was was surely an easy target !

you may be right but I haven't seen him bash anyone but the conservatives. Not that it really matters to me. while predominately a conservative I recognize the purity of belief is lost in politics.

But I am surprised to see him do a bash that indirectly would support a big government health care program.

 

[av8torntn]

And, it's just the worldwide known facts. Babyboomer retiring, future doctor shortage,and wait times, etc.
Nothing as severe as in the US.

Not true either but I guess you already knew that based on your track record.

Here's a good one by a fellow Canadian.

 

[moreluck]

Let me get this straight.....

We’re trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it.

Passed by a Congress that hasn’t read it but exempts them from it.

To be signed by a president that also hasn’t read it and who smokes.

Funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes.

To be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese.

Last but not least, to be financed by a country that is broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong????

 

[Babagounj]

Let me get this straight.....

We’re trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it.

Passed by a Congress that hasn’t read it but exempts them from it.

To be signed by a president that also hasn’t read it and who smokes.

Funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes.

To be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese.

Last but not least, to be financed by a country that is broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong????

you forgot as a tribute to a dead senator, who caused the fall of South Vietnam by blocking all funds for their military, thus allowing for the communists to overrun the country and kill millions.

 

[wkmac]

Dems Tap Drug Maker Millions for PhRMA-friendly Bill

 

[klein]

Not true either but I guess you already knew that based on your track record.

Here's a good one by a fellow Canadian.

I suppose you want to believe him, (David Gratzer), who is well known in the US for making up misleading health statistics.
He lost all his credibility long ago ! :

Analysis
Last week, we reported that Rudy Giuliani had used a false statistic in a radio ad in New Hampshire in which he claimed that the chance of surviving prostate cancer was only 44 percent in England and 82 percent in the U.S. We tracked that figure back to its source, Giuliani campaign adviser David Gratzer, who admitted to us that his numbers "technically" weren't survival rates at all. We reported that Gratzer had calculated his percentages from figures given in a report published in 2000 by two Johns Hopkins University researchers, and that both authors said Gratzer had drawn an erroneous conclusion. One of them told us that Gratzer's 44 percent figure was wrong, "misleading" and meaningless.

You can find more, just by googling his name.

You can think whatever you want about healthcare in other industrialized countries.
But, I do urge you, to visit a beach, or places such as Mexico, Florida, Hawaii, Arizona, Bahamas, Vegas, and more, where Canadians and Europeans vacation, and socialize with them just a little.

I had plenty of chats about healthcare while I was in FL, myself. It was mixed. However, I was once surprised, when an older Retireree was very much pro for Universal Coverage. Since he has it all now, (medicare), but, he thinks of the future and the costs, and see's this current system ain't working.
Most other older people were against it.
The younger ones, only wished they had national healthcare.

Like i said, it was mixed, and depends to whom you talk to. (my aunt on medicare now, doesn't want it, my cousin wants it ).

But, go out there, talk to Canadians in person. Only then will you get the real truth.

 

[tieguy]

I suppose you want to believe him, (David Gratzer), who is well known in the US for making up misleading health statistics.
He lost all his credibility long ago ! :

roflmao you've built quite the reputation for fabricating the facts here. You now wish to use the same charge to discredit a fellow canadian you disagree with?