Healthcare

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
It's the 11th largest because drugs are probably the largest industry in the world. If you believe otherwise you are just fooling yourself and Palin's got a bridge for you to buy.

Are you aware of all the manufacturing in Mexico? For example, most of the engines in American cars are built in Mexico, especially around Saltillo. Are you aware that Walmart, Sam's Club, Home Depot, McDonald's, and many more American franchises are all over Mexico now? Do drug cartels invest in business to launder their money? Sure, especially in the state of Sinaloa. But before judging the whole country keep in mind it's the American users primarily that finance the cartels. It's not the average Mexican that benefits from the cartels but the corrupt politicians and law enforcement that do. Most Mexicans are no more involved in cartel profits than the average Express employee in FedEx profits. And in all honesty, you sound like the xenophobic, jingoistic yahoo you claim the folks at Fox News are.
Yes, Americans finance the cartels and the cartels finance many of the countries south of the border. It's reality bro. Sad but true.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Yes, Americans finance the cartels and the cartels finance many of the countries south of the border. It's reality bro. Sad but true.

No, they don't. Cartels pay off people to look the other way but to say they are running those countries or providing the capital to run them is way off. You are basing your beliefs on assumptions without investigating the reality. My willful, blissful ignorance is based on almost 20 years of research, actually corresponding with people who live there. And yes, coca farmers in primarily Peru and Bolivia supply cartels, but it's hardly the primary economic basis of their countries.
 

thedownhillEXPRESS

Well-Known Member
I just think its funny Van is pointing towards South or Central American countries as his "ideal" conservative type of heaven.
They are a billion times to the left of Obama, and they all have socialized medicine for Christs sake!!

I'm with ya if its for the hot Latina pu tang though ...
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Yes, Americans finance the cartels and the cartels finance many of the countries south of the border. It's reality bro. Sad but true.

No, they don't. Cartels pay off people to look the other way but to say they are running those countries or providing the capital to run them is way off. You are basing your beliefs on assumptions without investigating the reality. My willful, blissful ignorance is based on almost 20 years of research, actually corresponding with people who live there. And yes, coca farmers in primarily Peru and Bolivia supply cartels, but it's hardly the primary economic basis of their countries.
Where do you think all the $trillions go? Stick your head in the sand all you want it doesn't change reality.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Where do you think all the $trillions go? Stick your head in the sand all you want it doesn't change reality.

Trillions? Really? If Americans had trillions to spend on drugs then we'd have one seriously robust economy. Have you heard of copper mining? Bananas? Soybeans? Tuna? Manufacturing? Oil? Tourism? And much much more than you realize. Not to mention billions of Dollars sent by illegals from the U.S. to their families. Free your mind from all the if'n and suppose'n and you may find that Latin America is much more diverse and developed than you realize.
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Where do you think all the $trillions go? Stick your head in the sand all you want it doesn't change reality.

Trillions? Really? If Americans had trillions to spend on drugs then we'd have one seriously robust economy. Have you heard of copper mining? Bananas? Soybeans? Tuna? Manufacturing? Oil? Tourism? And much much more than you realize. Not to mention billions of Dollars sent by illegals from the U.S. to their families. Free your mind from all the if'n and suppose'n and you may find that Latin America is much more diverse and developed than you realize.
Yes, the drug industry is worth $ trillions. It is estimated the US spends between $60 and $80 billion a year alone on illegal drugs.Take into account worldwide and that reaches easily into $300 to $400 billion. This is a conservative estimates and doesn't account for pharmaceuticals.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Yes, the drug industry is worth $ trillions. It is estimated the US spends between $60 and $80 billion a year alone on illegal drugs.Take into account worldwide and that reaches easily into $300 to $400 billion. This is a conservative estimates and doesn't account for pharmaceuticals.

Google "how much is spent on illegal drugs each year" and you'll find according to a 2005 study by the DEA Americans spend about $65 billion a year and about $22 billion makes it's way south. That hardly supports whole nations, but it does make cartels filthy rich and influences politicians and law enforcement. And not all illegal drugs come from Latin America. Opium and Heroin originate in Asia. Meth is mostly local.

But knowing drugs flow through Latin America to the States doesn't change the fact that there are many excellent places there populated by good people. And I know for a fact that I can have a good retirement there, something that'll be very difficult to obtain in the U.S.. FedEx has made me determined to find a way out, and I have. Do you honestly think they are ever going to change and give you a better retirement? They won't even pay enough to finance it yourself unless you go through great sacrifice to get there. Just because people like bbsam can afford to pay his way doesn't mean the rest of us will find a way. You may want to set aside preconceived notions and give living abroad a serious look. Modern technology makes it very easy to stay connected and you lose very little by living there instead of here and in some respects you gain quite a bit.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
You really don't get out much, huh? Mexico has a national healthcare plan that people can very affordably buy into, including foreigners. And they also have private hospitals that cost more with a higher quality of care, but still very affordable. It's about choice, and it's the kind of system the Democrats should have emulated instead of forcing citizens into their plan. Good luck!

Gee, a nationalized healthcare plan "that people can very affordably buy into". Kind of sounds like Obamacare to me, except that it's "socialist" here and OK there. How does that work, van?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I just think its funny Van is pointing towards South or Central American countries as his "ideal" conservative type of heaven.
They are a billion times to the left of Obama, and they all have socialized medicine for Christs sake!!

I'm with ya if its for the hot Latina pu tang though ...

Again, demonstrating a lack of knowledge. There are conservatives and liberals in every state in the U.S. to varying degrees. The same elsewhere. And they don't all have socialized medicine, but some do to varying degrees. And what does it matter? The struggle between ideologies will continue to go on in this country ad nauseum. And elsewhere too. I know how important it is for you guys to have things. Nice homes, nice cars, big tv's, etc. Make good money. We intend to live in nice enough apartments, but nothing luxurious. We'll walk everywhere or take cabs and busses. Public transport is much more developed there. It is ironic that liberals here are up in arms because they can't live the consumer lifestyle they want when I, the horrible conservative, intend to live very modestly. WHAT MATTERS MOST TO ME AND THE REASON I HUMPED ALL THESE YEARS IS MY FREEDOM. Freedom to see where each day takes me. Willing to trade my time and productivity for a better future but at the point this company expected me to just exist for their benefit and repeatedly screwed me over I decided that I would find a way to get out. If you haven't reached that point yet more power to you. You can keep fighting the good fight. I know some will say we need to think about what is good for all of us, not just ourselves. But we all get old, and leave sooner or later. And it's been demonstrated that when people start talking about sacrificing for the good of the group what they really mean is you fall on your sword so that I can do well. That's both management and employees. Good luck with that!
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Gee, a nationalized healthcare plan "that people can very affordably buy into". Kind of sounds like Obamacare to me, except that it's "socialist" here and OK there. How does that work, van?

That means you can CHOOSE to buy into the plan, and get treatment that involves crowded waiting rooms and subpar facilities, or you can choose to deal with private hospitals for more cost on your own. Obamacare doesn't give us that choice, we must participate or pay a penalty. I'd be all for the gov't building clinics in every county staffed by gov't employees to treat the poor for subsidized costs. They have a similar thing going on right now...the V.A..
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Gee, a nationalized healthcare plan "that people can very affordably buy into". Kind of sounds like Obamacare to me, except that it's "socialist" here and OK there. How does that work, van?

That means you can CHOOSE to buy into the plan, and get treatment that involves crowded waiting rooms and subpar facilities, or you can choose to deal with private hospitals for more cost on your own. Obamacare doesn't give us that choice, we must participate or pay a penalty. I'd be all for the gov't building clinics in every county staffed by gov't employees to treat the poor for subsidized costs. They have a similar thing going on right now...the V.A..
Oh yea give me a choice of crowded waiting rooms and subpar facilities. Not! I've never heard this argument before. Good luck down south with that.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Oh yea give me a choice of crowded waiting rooms and subpar facilities. Not! I've never heard this argument before. Good luck down south with that.

​But seeing private doctors is very affordable. And most were trained in the U.S. or Europe and many speak English. I'm not saying it's perfect, just that what's available there is decent if you bring enough income with you like a pension. But there are the intangibles like nice scenery and climate. But hey, too many Americans makes a place unaffordable so go ahead, believe the worst!
 

klein

Für Meno :)
I agree with Vantexan.
My goal isn't to stay all year round in Canada in retirement.
I too, will use the mighty North American dollars to settle south for atleast 6 mths per year.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I think a better comparison is if you drive a car YOU HAVE TO HAVE car insurance. Somehow they have forced our hands there and no one is up in arms over it. That happened in the late 80's where it became a must have to legally drive. Where was the uproar on that, sure there was some spatter, but no much and now it is just a "like duh you need car insurance to drive".

The difference is that people choose to get a license, & purchase a car which requires you to have car insurance. In todays insurance market you are being forced to meet the government standards not your own.

The difference between business (for example - insurance companies) and government is that to stay in business, a company has to have customers. The government can be inefficient, fraught with corruption and waste and all they have to do is raise your taxes or create huge deficits and still survive.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of insurance companies but if they could compete beyond state lines then I could shop for the best deal. Obamacare makes that impossible to do.

What the government is trying to do is drive everyone to a one payor system which will never be in your best interest ....ever!.
 

TUT

Well-Known Member
I agree with Vantexan.
My goal isn't to stay all year round in Canada in retirement.
I too, will use the mighty North American dollars to settle south for atleast 6 mths per year.

To note, I haven't looked too much south, but I have looked at the possibilities of something far east for the same reasons. Why not? It is stretching your dollar, expanding your horizons and most likely making your life much simpler and more relaxed in your golden years. Going out in nature.
 

TUT

Well-Known Member
The difference is that people choose to get a license, & purchase a car

Sounds good, but I'd go as far to say in many places in the US having a car and making a living is a requirement.

Unless something has changed the new health care laws do plan on having insurance companies compete for people to sign up for their variation of the program.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
The difference is that people choose to get a license, & purchase a car which requires you to have car insurance. In todays insurance market you are being forced to meet the government standards not your own.

The difference between business (for example - insurance companies) and government is that to stay in business, a company has to have customers. The government can be inefficient, fraught with corruption and waste and all they have to do is raise your taxes or create huge deficits and still survive.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of insurance companies but if they could compete beyond state lines then I could shop for the best deal. Obamacare makes that impossible to do.

What the government is trying to do is drive everyone to a one payor system which will never be in your best interest ....ever!.
the problem is that people today choose not to have health insurance...and then decide to use the healthcare services. Either we lock them out completely (good luck selling that Tea Party) or everyone has to be insured.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Sounds good, but I'd go as far to say in many places in the US having a car and making a living is a requirement.

Agreed, it was just an analogy! Just something to show a parallel and how one action affects another action and unfortunately it was not thought through with all the players (including people like us).

On a unimportant side note....
I grew up in SoCal. If you don't have a car there you are history! But I would think that in NYC - you can get around by cab or mass transit fairly easily. But that was not the point of the analogy.
 
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