Maybe it's Me

[8up]

In our building we have 6 on car sups and 2 dispatch sups of those 8, 1 has ever been a driver. Of the two center managers 1 was a driver for a few years. This seems to be a company wide problem not just here!!

similar situation in our building. with the hours they have to work, who wants to become a sup? drivers make good damn good money, why take a pay cut and suffer the abuse of upper mgmt, who are no longer "partners"? the new sups coming in don't have the knowledge or experience, and they don't seem to be driven enough to obtain it. the company doesn't seem to be interested in making these new sups partners anyway, have you seen the benefits package for a new sup? those positions will become a revolving door, with college grads eager to take a job, the after 4 -5 years of abuse they will burn out and fade away, with no chance of vesting in any type of retirement plan the company looses nothing in these folks.

 

[Karma...]

similar situation in our building. with the hours they have to work, who wants to become a sup? drivers make good damn good money, why take a pay cut and suffer the abuse of upper mgmt, who are no longer "partners"? the new sups coming in don't have the knowledge or experience, and they don't seem to be driven enough to obtain it. the company doesn't seem to be interested in making these new sups partners anyway, have you seen the benefits package for a new sup? those positions will become a revolving door, with college grads eager to take a job, the after 4 -5 years of abuse they will burn out and fade away, with no chance of vesting in any type of retirement plan the company looses nothing in these folks.

these new young management only have a lousy 401k plan which is portable....they have no defined pension plan so there are only negetive incentives to stay.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

these new young management only have a lousy 401k plan which is portable....they have no defined pension plan so there are only negetive incentives to stay.

The numbers of new sups who decide to make UPS their career is declining--this is why UPS went to the 401k for newer supervisors.

If I were an experienced investor I would much rather lose my pension and have UPS pay me the money that they would have paid toward my pension.

 

[Karma...]

The numbers of new sups who decide to make UPS their career is declining--this is why UPS went to the 401k for newer supervisors.

If I were an experienced investor I would much rather lose my pension and have UPS pay me the money that they would have paid toward my pension.

Thats my point...Thats not the case..The matching 401k amounts in no way is more than a defined pension with the included medical....add in the fact that the mip is given half now and the other half in yearly 20% increments over the next 5 years with no inflation adjustments.

 

[gman042]

Shrink...who can afford a shrink. My benefits don't include mental health, so I use the industry standard. Same outcome. Want a raise - bang head. Want to work more hours - partner. Want benefits - bang head. Want ridiclous goals - bang head. And so on...
See how it works???

Oh....but you do have mental health benefits.....EAP https://www.achievesolutions.net/achievesolutions/en/ups/Home.do

 

[pretzel_man]

Thats my point...Thats not the case..The matching 401k amounts in no way is more than a defined pension with the included medical....add in the fact that the mip is given half now and the other half in yearly 20% increments over the next 5 years with no inflation adjustments.

I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

Research says that the younger generation will move between companies. Have many jobs before they are 30. It says they don't value defined pension plans.

So, UPS eliminates their incentive to stay by making their pension contribution portable. Was that truly as a response to the demand? Or a self fullfilling prophecy?

I honestly do not know which path is more expensive for UPS....

I do know that with the defined benefit plan, its worth about half if you leave before you are 55. So logically the portable plan should be more expensive in the short term? It probably reduces risk as well.

 

[sosocal]

I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

Research says that the younger generation will move between companies. Have many jobs before they are 30. It says they don't value defined pension plans.

So, UPS eliminates their incentive to stay by making their pension contribution portable. Was that truly as a response to the demand? Or a self fullfilling prophecy?

I honestly do not know which path is more expensive for UPS....

I do know that with the defined benefit plan, its worth about half if you leave before you are 55. So logically the portable plan should be more expensive in the short term? It probably reduces risk as well.

The same trend that points research to conclude the younger generation prefers a portable retirment account is the same trend that has and will forever change the culture at UPS. New management, on average, will not put up with the life us old school "partners" have endured. They don't want to climb the career ladder. They want to do a good job, and then go home and live life. It is hard for old timers to understand why they don't want to relocate, advance in management or move to a midnight hub to get expirience. There is some resentment directed at the new generation from the old timers that have done all these things and asked for more "please".

It took me a while to better understand the younger generation of management but now I clearly get it...In fact, it has significantly rubbed off on me --more and more I see the organization through their eyes.

Ultimately this dynamic will need to be addressed on a more significant level than a "portable" retirement. The unfortunate thing is that we are anticipating "portable" management to come and go through the company at a time when the learning curve and return on supervisor investment, is very long and getting longer. THis is a bottom line issue...and becoming more so everyday....

 

[beentheredonethat]

I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg.

Research says that the younger generation will move between companies. Have many jobs before they are 30. It says they don't value defined pension plans.

So, UPS eliminates their incentive to stay by making their pension contribution portable. Was that truly as a response to the demand? Or a self fullfilling prophecy?

I honestly do not know which path is more expensive for UPS....

I do know that with the defined benefit plan, its worth about half if you leave before you are 55. So logically the portable plan should be more expensive in the short term? It probably reduces risk as well.

If you have a good job, that is secure, with a bright future. This same job pays at or near the top compared to competitors why would you pick up and leave. I know some newer supervisors at UPS. There are some that do a great job and I would love to see stay at UPS and have a life long career at UPS. However, some of these same supervisors that go the extra mile get more work heaped on them, since they are go getters and don't complain. However, what do they get? Maybe another 1 or 2% of a raise compared to the person who isn't as good or works less hours. ALso, some of these same people got passed over for promotion since they weren't manager material. (By that I mean, he was the wrong sex). So, the better ones leave for a company that will pay more for their work. Or they decide I'm going to coast like the other guys and not try as hard, since it won't get me promoted.

I have many of nieces and nephews that are Gen X. Many have had multiple jobs. Some left because the first job they found paid only 30K per year, then they found another job making 40K, then they found another job making 50K. So they left jobs to make more money. If the first company paid more, they likely would have stayed. Also, some have left because their company had massive layoffs and\or went out of business.

Most people don't leave because they want to change and work elsewhere. They leave for greener pastures.

 

[whatwasithinking]

I am curious to see the results of the EOS (formerly ERI??). I have not taken it yet. Many of the questions are designed so that you really have no choice but to "strongly agree", or at least "agree", but I am really curious about the questions that truly correspond to our happiness in our jobs. I hate the fact that it is supposed to be geared toward your immediate manager, when I don't think that is where most of the issues lie. To me, it is more the direction of the company and the approach that we are taking to get there. Based on this thread, I can't wait to see the response to the question that asks if you would leave for another job making the same amount of money. Every supervisor that I talk with regularly, that has been in management more than 3 years, all say that they would leave if they found a comparable paying job. They just don't have a ton of time to actively search for something else. I continue to try to convince myself that UPS is the place to be, but with some of our leaders (div mgrs, ops mgrs, etc) I have a hard time wanting to commit the rest of my working years to UPS. I hope I can overcome that, but I would like to find some inspiring leader that I want to follow, instead of one that seems intent on threatening peoples' jobs and putting people on 30, 60, 90 day plans. Somewhere...anywhere....there has to be ONE!!!

 

[menotyou]

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEXfASbPbDM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[grgrcr88]

The numbers of new sups who decide to make UPS their career is declining--this is why UPS went to the 401k for newer supervisors.

If I were an experienced investor I would much rather lose my pension and have UPS pay me the money that they would have paid toward my pension.

Don't be fooled. The only reason the switched to a 401k is that it's cheaper for the company.

 

[Pacman]

Casey said it best and it is still true today, " If we are working for money alone it is the best way not to get it". Jim also remarked on what if anything would cause UPS to go out of business to which he replied, the lack of inspired management or leadership. Partnership, run if you hear that word now because it is a precursor to sacrificing your efforts for someone who wouldn't give you the time of day if they didn't want something.

 

[slantnosechevy]

Obviously having outside directors has the disadvantage that they may not understand UPS and our business and they may have have the same vested interest as somebody who has been here for 20-30 years. However, in some sense, having an outside perspective is a good thing. I'm all for promoting from within and all that jazz. However, I believe that an organization run solely by UPS insiders who have only worked for UPS has a potential to become insular and stale. Having an outside perspective helps to prevent that from happening. Sometimes you need some DNA from the outside to prevent in-breeding. In fact, for a company like UPS which puts such a premium on promoting from within, not having outside perspective is a serious blind spot.

I'm a firm believer in check and balances, but how did the Caseys, Oberkotter, and the rest do it successfully for so many years? I believe you need a few outsiders like required by the SEC, but not at the CEO position. I also believe with having so many execs these days setting on each others boards all that does is lead to a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" mentality in terms of compensation at the top levels. I'd love to see UPS go back to a private company providing the cost would be affordable. I firmly believe that with all the companies UPS deals with on a daily basis that they would not become insular and stale.