Orion Forcing

[Benben]

UPS donates a set amount per driver.
Turnover within driver ranks does not increase or decrease pension costs to UPS unless the total number of drivers changes.

Driver's not working but 10 - 20 years, would decrease the amount of payout from the Teamster pension funds.
If there was excess money in pension fund, Teamster officials would take care of the excess.

Sorry but you are a tad bit off according to what I have been told. UPS does not,"donate a set amount per driver." The contract has UPS "paying" the Teamsters Union a set amount per full time worker up to 8 hours a day. The payment goes towards the teamster's health insurance AND pension programs. This payment is why we had the last contract rammed down our throats. After 8 hours that charge goes away and it actually becomes advantageous for the company even with paying the overtime rate. This is the exact reason why it is so much cheaper for UPS to work 2 top wage drivers 12 hours a day instead of 2 top wage and 1 first year driver 8 hours each.

 

[JackStraw]

Our local is asking drivers not to RLO as there is no pension contribution for a driver who has exhausted all of his sick days

 

[Catatonic]

Sorry but you are a tad bit off according to what I have been told. UPS does not,"donate a set amount per driver." The contract has UPS "paying" the Teamsters Union a set amount per full time worker up to 8 hours a day. The payment goes towards the teamster's health insurance AND pension programs. This payment is why we had the last contract rammed down our throats. After 8 hours that charge goes away and it actually becomes advantageous for the company even with paying the overtime rate. This is the exact reason why it is so much cheaper for UPS to work 2 top wage drivers 12 hours a day instead of 2 top wage and 1 first year driver 8 hours each.

I was just trying to keep it simple but you are correct.

While what you said is correct, I fail to see it's relevance to the conversation/topic.
Can you give me a few more hints as to how this is relevant to "UPS saving money if most drivers turnover after 10 years"?

 

[wayfair]

Sorry but you are a tad bit off according to what I have been told. UPS does not,"donate a set amount per driver." The contract has UPS "paying" the Teamsters Union a set amount per full time worker up to 8 hours a day. The payment goes towards the teamster's health insurance AND pension programs. This payment is why we had the last contract rammed down our throats. After 8 hours that charge goes away and it actually becomes advantageous for the company even with paying the overtime rate. This is the exact reason why it is so much cheaper for UPS to work 2 top wage drivers 12 hours a day instead of 2 top wage and 1 first year driver 8 hours each.

but, it's still cheaper for them to pay the noob driver than the top wage driver.

 

[toonertoo]

Cover guy, a great driver covered my route monday. 26 miles over. 98.7%

 

[Foamer Pyle]

93.2% yesterday.

I follow Orion about 98%, and I punched out last night at 9:10 pm, and very close to 8pm tonight. All Orion does is force you to deliver off the wrong side of the car, and it wants you to turn around in driveways. I never back in driveways. I wonder if any drivers have been struck by vehicles while having to cross the road. I am sure it will happen,
Only a matter of time. I have already had 2 close calls because of speeders in residential areas. So they cut 10 miles off my route, it cost them 2 hours of overtime. Let's see, regular gas is under two bucks, and I earned an extra $100 in overtime. We have real geniuses running this company.
There are Center managers refusing to pay penalty pay for excessive overtime. Drivers are filing article 17 on them, and getting even more money. Ups will never learn.

 

[Foamer Pyle]

UPS donates a set amount per driver.
Turnover within driver ranks does not increase or decrease pension costs to UPS unless the total number of drivers changes.

Driver's not working but 10 - 20 years, would decrease the amount of payout from the Teamster pension funds.
If there was excess money in pension fund, Teamster officials would take care of the excess.

Exactly, that's a free pension bail out!!! LMFAO!

 

[Boulevard859710]

I follow Orion about 98%, and I punched out last night at 9:10 pm, and very close to 8pm tonight. All Orion does is force you to deliver off the wrong side of the car, and it wants you to turn around in driveways. I never back in driveways. I wonder if any drivers have been struck by vehicles while having to cross the road. I am sure it will happen,
Only a matter of time. I have already had 2 close calls because of speeders in residential areas. So they cut 10 miles off my route, it cost them 2 hours of overtime. Let's see, regular gas is under two bucks, and I earned an extra $100 in overtime. We have real geniuses running this company.
There are Center managers refusing to pay penalty pay for excessive overtime. Drivers are filing article 17 on them, and getting even more money. Ups will never learn.

Step over a dollar to save a dime.

 

[wayfair]

I follow Orion about 98%, and I punched out last night at 9:10 pm, and very close to 8pm tonight. All Orion does is force you to deliver off the wrong side of the car, and it wants you to turn around in driveways. I never back in driveways. I wonder if any drivers have been struck by vehicles while having to cross the road. I am sure it will happen,
Only a matter of time. I have already had 2 close calls because of speeders in residential areas. So they cut 10 miles off my route, it cost them 2 hours of overtime. Let's see, regular gas is under two bucks, and I earned an extra $100 in overtime. We have real geniuses running this company.
There are Center managers refusing to pay penalty pay for excessive overtime. Drivers are filing article 17 on them, and getting even more money. Ups will never learn.

so, are you on the 9.5 list???

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Why not 100%?

What's wrong with you?

We thought you were perfect?

The optimal use of Orion is somewhere in the 90-95% range.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sorry but you are a tad bit off according to what I have been told. UPS does not,"donate a set amount per driver." The contract has UPS "paying" the Teamsters Union a set amount per full time worker up to 8 hours a day. The payment goes towards the teamster's health insurance AND pension programs. This payment is why we had the last contract rammed down our throats. After 8 hours that charge goes away and it actually becomes advantageous for the company even with paying the overtime rate. This is the exact reason why it is so much cheaper for UPS to work 2 top wage drivers 12 hours a day instead of 2 top wage and 1 first year driver 8 hours each.

Actually there are two separate payments----one for the pension and the other for H&W.

You are correct in that the company should contribute for all hours worked, not just the first 8.

 

[MC0493]

That's what seems to happen in my center. The closer to 100% trace we get, the further over miles we go. I was like 97% yesterday but 15 miles over, can't win.

 

[timesup]

Not on every rte,I've been driving 30 yrs

 

[Benben]

I was just trying to keep it simple but you are correct.

While what you said is correct, I fail to see it's relevance to the conversation/topic.
Can you give me a few more hints as to how this is relevant to "UPS saving money if most drivers turnover after 10 years"?

The last contract saw the time to hit top pay greatly increased. I believe we will see the same thing in 2018. A push to make it 6 or 7 years to top pay. If Orion is made to work 100% (and I think this is the drive behind getting us drivers to MAKE it work. To fix the bugs and problems while at the same time using our experience to prevent service failures.) Then every route "should be able to be done" by anybody. This includes the 1st to 6th year drivers not at top pay. Kick the 10+ year drivers to the curb and your only paying top pay for 3 years if you have a 7 year progression. This can be done because "experience" is no longer needed as Orion supplies everything needed except the warm body in the driver's seat.

The only worse possible scenario would be a 2 tiered wage system implemented where all new drivers top out lower than us now. We would all suddenly have even larger and now bright neon targets on our backs!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

6-7 year progression?

Two tiered is the next logical step.

 

[MC0493]

All they need to do is upload the orion route into a gps and throw it in the truck. Boom anyone can do any route, running blind becomes a thing of the past. Bet it happens one day too.

 

[Foamer Pyle]

so, are you on the 9.5 list???

Of course.

 

[Foamer Pyle]

The last contract saw the time to hit top pay greatly increased. I believe we will see the same thing in 2018. A push to make it 6 or 7 years to top pay. If Orion is made to work 100% (and I think this is the drive behind getting us drivers to MAKE it work. To fix the bugs and problems while at the same time using our experience to prevent service failures.) Then every route "should be able to be done" by anybody. This includes the 1st to 6th year drivers not at top pay. Kick the 10+ year drivers to the curb and your only paying top pay for 3 years if you have a 7 year progression. This can be done because "experience" is no longer needed as Orion supplies everything needed except the warm body in the driver's seat.

The only worse possible scenario would be a 2 tiered wage system implemented where all new drivers top out lower than us now. We would all suddenly have even larger and now bright neon targets on our backs!

Orion makes it nearly impossible for a new driver to learn a route, because the routes natural loop is thrown out the door. You have to have very good area knowledge to run a route efficiently with Orion. All the new guys are struggling to get the job done on a daily basis. They are taking their lunch breaks in the center, because if they took it on area, they would not be able to get the route finished. Ups has sealed its fate with this system, because no one is going to want to do this job under their current work loads. Safety and service have been kicked to the curb.

 

[Foamer Pyle]

All they need to do is upload the orion route into a gps and throw it in the truck. Boom anyone can do any route, running blind becomes a thing of the past. Bet it happens one day too.

Watch all the accidents happen, as the new driver now has an in cab distraction, the gps screen. Gps does not trump area knowledge.

 

[Benben]

JL, Orion doesn't work for a new driver on bricked out routes with a 9.3 hour plan with the current time allowances. Now what happens when you revert back to the old time allowances then plug a 2 hour lunch into the plan, and then send that route out with an 8 hour plan? The cost of paying 2 first year drivers is still less than paying me.