The Big 3

Channahon

Well-Known Member
GM has taken the first step to show they are seriously trying to cut costs by ending its sponsorship of Tiger Woods.

That's a savings of $7 million dollars a year, and Tiger had one year left on his 10 year contract.

And GM also stated they are selling 2 or 3 of their 5 corporate jets.

Wow, asking for billions and this is part of their plan to present to Congress? Should be interesting!!
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Ten years ago a Russian came up with this idea, that today seems to be coming true.

Basically he says that because of the financial problems the USA will break up into 6 separate countries. The west , the south, Texas, central, north, & midatlantic.
 
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stringerman85

Well-Known Member
GM has taken the first step to show they are seriously trying to cut costs by ending its sponsorship of Tiger Woods.

That's a savings of $7 million dollars a year, and Tiger had one year left on his 10 year contract.

And GM also stated they are selling 2 or 3 of their 5 corporate jets.

Wow, asking for billions and this is part of their plan to present to Congress? Should be interesting!!

They have 5 corporate jets?? Hell with a few more aircrafts they could almost run a small airline business :happy-very:

7 million dollars a year for sponsorship, Like I always say, I should have played golf! Have you seen Tigers house? NICEEEE

And it makes ya wonder how much he makes with Gatorade and Nike and the other ones
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Tooner, it is not called motorsports. It is called "good ole boy roundy round".

GM has taken the first step to show they are seriously trying to cut costs by ending its sponsorship of Tiger Woods.

It makes more sense for GM to advertise with good ole boy roundy rounds than GOLF.
I remember when gas went to 60 cents in the 70's and I thought :anxious: OH NO soon they will quit racing. Not happening in my world.
 

Channahon

Well-Known Member
They have 5 corporate jets?? Hell with a few more aircrafts they could almost run a small airline business :happy-very:

7 million dollars a year for sponsorship, Like I always say, I should have played golf! Have you seen Tigers house? NICEEEE

And it makes ya wonder how much he makes with Gatorade and Nike and the other ones

Don't think Tiger is hurting, even with a new baby on the way!!
 

drewed

Shankman
So the news now, theyre back on the way to DC, driving this time....GM is pretty much saying we're the dead fish if we dont get 4 billion by the end of the month, and 12 by March and another 4 by this time next year....Ford is asking for 9 billion dolltar line of credit to stabilize operations and expect to be back in the black by 2011....

On a side note theyre asking the UAW to postpone the private trust payments coming due in the next couple months (6bill for ford 9 for GM)

Both CEOs said they will accept a salary of 1 dollar if the bailout is granted....

Personnally, with GM I think they should file for bankruptcy theyre asking money for immediate continuing of operations, fords request should be granted since they have the cash to continue operations, and need a line of credit down the road much like the gov't did with the airlines a couple years ago.
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
I talked with my brother over the holiday about this. He works for GM and has a lot of insight on its situation. He describes the problem as a cash flow problem, not a "bail out". GM has been downsizing the last couple of years and the UAW took over health insurance in their first give back contract. Their current problem is a combination of the bad mortgage loans GMAC had to make and the UAW Job Bank. Under the job bank, once somebody is laid off two years, they get 95% of their pay based on a 40 hour week. So a lot of auto workers never try to go back to work, whats the incentive? Its breaking the industry.

He works for GMAD (GM Assembly Division) in Shreveport, La. They build the Colorado small P/Us and Hummer H3s there. He says they are rumored to start building smaller European designed cars (Opel?) and trucks next. Hummer will go away as a brand and the Saturn will be rolled into another division. GM has a lot of hope in the Chevy Volt that will be built in Michigan.
 
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drewed

Shankman
Well it would be a bail out, the big 3 arent making money, and there is no guarantee that they will be in the near future, if at all....ford is the only one not saying we're not going to survive next month if you dont give us money, theyre the only one that saw forsight and got private lines of credit and theyre the only one that has a date where they say we're going break even.
 

Channahon

Well-Known Member
Here's the latest
Dems, Bush Agree On Bailout Plan For Ailing Autos

images_image_281095702.jpg
Timeline: U.S. Credit Crunch & Financial Failures


WASHINGTON (AP) ― Jolted by the loss of thousands of jobs, congressional Democrats led by U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco and the White House reached agreement Friday on about $15 billion in bailout loans for the beleaguered auto industry.

Several officials in both parties said the breakthrough on a long-stalled bailout came after Pelosi bowed to President Bush's demand that the aid come from a fund set aside for the production of environmentally friendlier cars.

Pelosi spoke to White House chief of staff Josh Bolten during the day to signal her change in position, they added.

The developments came as desperate auto executives pleaded for a second day with lawmakers for loans to help them survive, and the government reported the worst single month's job loss in 34 years. President Bush also warned that at least one of the Big Three carmakers might not survive the current economic crisis.

Pelosi's office issued a statement saying legislation would come to a vote in the U.S. House next week. The U.S. Senate is also scheduled to be in session next week to consider steps to aid Detroit's Big Three.

"Congress will insist that any legislation include rigorous and ongoing oversight to guarantee that taxpayers are protected and that resources are directed to ensure the long-term viability and competitiveness of the American automobile industry," Pelosi's statement said.

Officials in both parties also said the legislation would include creation of a trustee or group of industry overseers to make sure the bailout funds were used by General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC for their intended purpose. The funds are designed to last until March, giving the incoming Obama administration and the new Congress time to consider the issue anew.

Earlier in day at the White House, Bush declared the economy was in a recession, and he urged Congress to act quickly on a multibillion-dollar industry bailout - with taxpayer protections.

"We are going to have to have some give here," replied Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank, a senior House Democrat, expressing optimism that compromise might be possible. It wasn't clear whether he was prodding Bush or Pelosi with his comments, but Republicans said there had been no lessening in Bush's refusal to tap the $700 billion financial industry bailout fund to help the automakers.

There were also fresh calls during the day for the Federal Reserve to come to the rescue of the Big Three, possibly in the form of low-cost loans. And Frank said he had talked with Tim Geithner, President-elect Barack Obama's choice for treasury secretary, a possible sign of involvement by the incoming administration.

"I am concerned about the viability of the automobile companies," a somber Bush said as a fresh report showed that employers slashed 533,000 jobs in November.

The president added, "I'm concerned about those who work for the automobile companies and their families. And likewise, survive I am concerned about taxpayer money being provided to those companies that may not survive." Bush did not elaborate, but executives at both GM and Chrysler have warned that their storied corporations could collapse by year's end.

In addition to the November layoffs, GM announced it will cut shifts at factories in Lordstown, Ohio, Orion Township, Mich., and Oshawa, Ontario, in February as a result of slumping auto sales. About 2,000 jobs were involved, bringing the year's total to 11,000.

The chief executives of GM, Ford and Chrysler, testified for a second day before Congress in support of their plea for a $34 billion bailout in the form of loans. "We believe this is the least costly alternative," Chrysler LLC chief executive Bob Nardelli said.

For the day, at least, their appeals were overtaken by the severity of the job loss figures, the worst in 34 years.

Frank said repeatedly that the unemployment statistics had quieted talk of allowing one or more of the automakers to go bankrupt.

"I think it's fair to say that the jobs report today, this disastrous jobs report, has heightened the interest in doing something." With trademark wit, he added, "If we are lucky we will come out with a bill here that nobody likes, because any bill that any individual liked couldn't pass."

Bush renewed his call for Congress to rewrite an existing $25 billion program intended to help the industry make more fuel-efficient vehicles. But the president did not explicitly foreclose other options, and Republican aides said the White House might be open to some sort of compromise.

Congressional budget analysts have said tapping the fuel-efficiency program for a broader auto bailout would net only $7.5 billion in short-term cash but amended that to say adjustments were possible that could double that amount. Pelosi and environmentalists had opposed making use of those funds. Instead, they wanted the administration to take money from a $700 billion financial industry bailout that cleared Congress last fall.

Absent an agreement, the Senate appeared likely to convene next week for a series of votes on various alternatives, all of which would be doomed to failure. Any measure would require a 60-vote majority, an impossibility barring an agreement that involves both parties.

Nardelli, GM chief executive Rick Wagoner and Ford CEO Alan Mulally all drove to Washington this week with detailed plans describing how their companies would use loans to make their industry more competitive in the long run, material that congressional leaders had demanded as a condition for considering a bailout bill.

The hearing was drained of some of the drama that filled the room at a similar Senate session on Thursday, although Frank told the three that some lawmakers would find it difficult to support aid unless the companies abandoned lawsuits filed against several states seeking to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
 

tieguy

Banned
I don't like the bailouts but I have a hard time speaking against them if it will save people the misery of losing their jobs.

In this case though it looks like both will happen. The automakers will get their "loan" and many auto workers will still lose their jobs.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by tieguy
I don't like the ballouts but I have a hard time speaking against them if it will save people the misery of losing their jobs.

I think they are important. If we did not have ballots, how would we know who was elected?

If we did not have ballets, what would we watch on PBS channel 2 ?
Don't throw away your slippers and leotards quite yet Hoaxster?



back on track .....A bailout IMO is not considered a loan, the banking, credit and mortgage industry seems to be getting a pass. Do they intend to pay this money back or are we only considering the Automakers pay it back.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
The right thing to do is NOT give the money to the automakers, but give $10,000 dollar vouchers to the american public to use towards the purchase of an american car built by Chrysler, Ford and GM.

This way, the money goes directly where it is needed, the inventory goes down, sales taxes are collected locally and businesses stay in business.

The inventory would reduce itself to near nothing and the companies would be able to produce once again without a "glut" of unsold cars on sales floors.

The vouchers would go to "taxpayers" only, and could not be redeemed for cash or credit. They MUST be used on the big three cars and no other brand could redeem the vouchers.

This would fix the problem in both the short and long runs.

The company can retool while business begins to boom, and by the time the inventory is reduced, they can supply better cars to the sales floor.

:dead:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
There is a video of a new Ford plant in Brazil. It is also points out why auto
manufacturing in America will disappear and we shouldn't give bailouts that only increase the cost of vehicles..

It makes me mad that this plant is in Brazil and not in the states.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
The right thing to do is NOT give the money to the automakers, but give $10,000 dollar vouchers to the american public to use towards the purchase of an american car built by Chrysler, Ford and GM.

This way, the money goes directly where it is needed, the inventory goes down, sales taxes are collected locally and businesses stay in business.

The inventory would reduce itself to near nothing and the companies would be able to produce once again without a "glut" of unsold cars on sales floors.

The vouchers would go to "taxpayers" only, and could not be redeemed for cash or credit. They MUST be used on the big three cars and no other brand could redeem the vouchers.

This would fix the problem in both the short and long runs.

The company can retool while business begins to boom, and by the time the inventory is reduced, they can supply better cars to the sales floor.

:dead:

Can I give a friend my voucher to combine with his own so that it requires no money from his pocket ?
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Originally Posted by tieguy
I don't like the ballouts but I have a hard time speaking against them if it will save people the misery of losing their jobs.



If we did not have ballets, what would we watch on PBS channel 2 ?
Don't throw away your slippers and leotards quite yet Hoaxster?
Bad image...ever seen the hippo dancing in Fantasia?
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
The right thing to do is NOT give the money to the automakers, but give $10,000 dollar vouchers to the american public to use towards the purchase of an american car built by Chrysler, Ford and GM.

This way, the money goes directly where it is needed, the inventory goes down, sales taxes are collected locally and businesses stay in business.

The inventory would reduce itself to near nothing and the companies would be able to produce once again without a "glut" of unsold cars on sales floors.

The vouchers would go to "taxpayers" only, and could not be redeemed for cash or credit. They MUST be used on the big three cars and no other brand could redeem the vouchers.

This would fix the problem in both the short and long runs.

The company can retool while business begins to boom, and by the time the inventory is reduced, they can supply better cars to the sales floor.

:dead:

Somehow my response just not feel right but here it goes...
TOS, That makes sense! :you_go_girl:

Did someone else write that for you? :winks:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
A Modern Parable.....

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people we re steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all


the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, the End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the
US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. They both build automobiles.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...and now Ford Executives want us, the United States Taxpayer, to loan them 25 Billion Dollars,. to help them create that same series of mistakes all over again.... Or, a 25 Billion reward for exercising total stupidity and morbid indifference to the product requirements and desires of the American automobile customer.


Let them take a chapter 11 like every other business who screws up their products and marketplace.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
I wish that old saying " its either sink or swim " still applied to today's business world. Unfortunately today its sink , demand a bailout & sink again.
The business world is intentionally harsh , no one wants a bunch of screw-ups around, except our wacky government.
 
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