Why the hate?

[bbsam]

I respect very few people in general, mainly because they talk a good game of ethics and morality, and then succumb to the LCD philosophy of profit over everything else. I respect your political beliefs, which don't seem to square with the business that you are in. I also respect your intelligence. You are a bright guy, so why do you compromise your ethics by being part of Fred's Ground scam? I'm sure you could find something else that you could be successful at. Rationalizing that your employees are just at a way station on the way to something better is very weak.

What is being rationalized? Quite simply, it is what it is.

When I started with RPS, I had one truck, one route and a whole lot of hours behind the wheel. I didn't bitch, and I didn't complain because it was alot better than driving for the cab company and I knew exactly who was to blame for my getting fired at UPS. I could have went back and finished college, but I didn't and have little regret about that. I like where I am. Things worked out and all I had to do was take advantage of what was right ahead of me. It's ridiculous to assume that each person's path is going to unfurl the same way. I don't what life holds for each.

Some of my drivers may stay for 30 years. Some may be done in 2. I have made them no promises, so if in 20 years they are going to be bitter because the job hasn't become what they thought it should be, who's fault is that? No rose gardens, no convoluted schemes to take away what they think they are owed. It is what it is.

So you tell me. What is rationalized and what ethics are being compromised? High pay and benefits? That's not ethics, that's economics.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Fourputt, if you were to offer to help me load a bulk pickup, I would simply say "thanks, but no thanks". There is a liability issue which you have not addressed---if you were to get hurt and it was discovered that it was while you were helping me UPS could be indirectly liable for your injury. This is why I never allow any non-UPS personnel on to the package car at any time.

Do I have the same respect for Ground drivers that I have for Express couriers? No.

 

[Catatonic]

UPS and FedEx Express drivers are fully evolved. To put it in anthropological terms, Ground drivers would be the Missing Link.

Not all FedEx Express drivers seem to have evolved!

 

[whenIgetthere]

Fourputt, if you were to offer to help me load a bulk pickup, I would simply say "thanks, but no thanks". There is a liability issue which you have not addressed---if you were to get hurt and it was discovered that it was while you were helping me UPS could be indirectly liable for your injury. This is why I never allow any non-UPS personnel on to the package car at any time.

Do I have the same respect for Ground drivers that I have for Express couriers? No.

Ground driver on pick up route I did last week offered to help me at a bulk, but I told him "No thank you". He seems like a cool guy but the reason, this route (and all routes) are held to certain SPH goals, because of the bulks on the this particular route. If I get help, finish the route quicker, the goals will go up. It's just like if my manager is on a check ride, I don't let her touch any packages or help me in any way.

 

[bbsam]

Fourputt, if you were to offer to help me load a bulk pickup, I would simply say "thanks, but no thanks". There is a liability issue which you have not addressed---if you were to get hurt and it was discovered that it was while you were helping me UPS could be indirectly liable for your injury. This is why I never allow any non-UPS personnel on to the package car at any time.

Do I have the same respect for Ground drivers that I have for Express couriers? No.

that doesn't really say who you respect more though, now does it?

 

[Nolimitz]

I just came off an Express Mall rte. In the beginning I was lost. The UPS (18 yr vet) was very helpful with questions on locations and del access. I learned real quick not to bug him during NDA period. The GROUND guy was also a nice guy. I have met both good and not so good folks from ground, UPS and USPS. Same is true of any walk of life. Some will always think they are superior beings... yet they are the s of life. get over it and move on.

You guys are brutal.I'm a ups driver and try to respect everyone.
Fourputt has good points,and deserves some respect no matter
who you answer to.
Myself,I try to work together with all the couriers.

 

[MrFedEx]

What is being rationalized? Quite simply, it is what it is.

When I started with RPS, I had one truck, one route and a whole lot of hours behind the wheel. I didn't bitch, and I didn't complain because it was alot better than driving for the cab company and I knew exactly who was to blame for my getting fired at UPS. I could have went back and finished college, but I didn't and have little regret about that. I like where I am. Things worked out and all I had to do was take advantage of what was right ahead of me. It's ridiculous to assume that each person's path is going to unfurl the same way. I don't what life holds for each.

Some of my drivers may stay for 30 years. Some may be done in 2. I have made them no promises, so if in 20 years they are going to be bitter because the job hasn't become what they thought it should be, who's fault is that? No rose gardens, no convoluted schemes to take away what they think they are owed. It is what it is.

So you tell me. What is rationalized and what ethics are being compromised? High pay and benefits? That's not ethics, that's economics.

More rationalization.

 

[MrFedEx]

I just came off an Express Mall rte. In the beginning I was lost. The UPS (18 yr vet) was very helpful with questions on locations and del access. I learned real quick not to bug him during NDA period. The GROUND guy was also a nice guy. I have met both good and not so good folks from ground, UPS and USPS. Same is true of any walk of life. Some will always think they are superior beings... yet they are the s of life. get over it and move on.

We aren't thinking we are "superior" over here at Express, just at a higher skill level and more professional. People are people for the most part, but I do object to the FedEx Corporation using people as badly as they do and not providing any type of benefits at all to drivers who really should be classified as true employees. Most Ground people are right off the street and that shows in the way they perform their jobs. We've all heard about or seen the idling trucks, the mis-deliveries etc., and that's what you get for the low wages that are being paid.

Fred S is running a huge scheme at Ground, and it's undercutting the careers of both UPS and FedEx Express drivers. Glad you are OK with that and accept your fate without a fight or even a peep.

 

[bbsam]

More rationalization.

if you think so, then break it down and explain what is not sound about what I have posted. You may as well just say it is all lies as call it rationalizing.

 

[RTURNSONLY]

I always try to wave and say hi to the Home Delivery guy that does my area, but he's always looking down at a white piece of paper...true story.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I always try to wave and say hi to the Home Delivery guy that does my area, but he's always looking down at a white piece of paper...true story.

That would be his delivery manifest.

 

[bbsam]

No. That's loaded in the scanner.

That would be his delivery manifest.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

No. That's loaded in the scanner.

OK.

Maybe he's perusing the "Help Wanted" section of today's paper.

 

[MrFedEx]

I always try to wave and say hi to the Home Delivery guy that does my area, but he's always looking down at a white piece of paper...true story.

Those are the directions his manager wrote down for the address he can't find.

 

[MrFedEx]

What is being rationalized? Quite simply, it is what it is.

When I started with RPS, I had one truck, one route and a whole lot of hours behind the wheel. I didn't bitch, and I didn't complain because it was alot better than driving for the cab company and I knew exactly who was to blame for my getting fired at UPS. I could have went back and finished college, but I didn't and have little regret about that. I like where I am. Things worked out and all I had to do was take advantage of what was right ahead of me. It's ridiculous to assume that each person's path is going to unfurl the same way. I don't what life holds for each.

Some of my drivers may stay for 30 years. Some may be done in 2. I have made them no promises, so if in 20 years they are going to be bitter because the job hasn't become what they thought it should be, who's fault is that? No rose gardens, no convoluted schemes to take away what they think they are owed. It is what it is.

So you tell me. What is rationalized and what ethics are being compromised? High pay and benefits? That's not ethics, that's economics.

"It is what it is" is a raionalization in and of itself. In your mind it's all OK because it is "economically justified", and not an ethical question. How do your employees take care of their medical and dental needs bbsam? Or how about their kids?

 

[bbsam]

"It is what it is" is a raionalization in and of itself. In your mind it's all OK because it is "economically justified", and not an ethical question. How do your employees take care of their medical and dental needs bbsam? Or how about their kids?

Are you suggesting then that it isn't what it is? It is all "justified" because that is what we have determined acceptable in the United States. That you do not like it does not make it any less so. And if it is an ethical question, it is one that the country will have to come to a different conclusion with. I'm fine with it. I lived it and did quite well with it. We aren't in the business of making sure everybody succeeds in the same way. As to medical and dental needs, I still hope we have "single payer" someday. I am not sure that is an ethical question when company paid plans obviously put American companies at a competitive disadvantage. Or are you suggesting that I have an ethical responsibility to provide health and dental insurance for my employees and their families? If so, how so?

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

Amen to single payer

 

[MAKAVELI]

No. That's loaded in the scanner.

That would be his delivery manifest.

Turn by turn directions because he can't run the route by memory like us at Express. Lol

 

[bbsam]

Turn by turn directions because he can't run the route by memory like us at Express. Lol

I could never use turn by turns. They always seemed formatted in a way that was more confusing that they were worth. Besides, they send drivers down crap roads in order to save a quarter mile.

 

[vantexan]

What is being rationalized? Quite simply, it is what it is.

When I started with RPS, I had one truck, one route and a whole lot of hours behind the wheel. I didn't bitch, and I didn't complain because it was alot better than driving for the cab company and I knew exactly who was to blame for my getting fired at UPS. I could have went back and finished college, but I didn't and have little regret about that. I like where I am. Things worked out and all I had to do was take advantage of what was right ahead of me. It's ridiculous to assume that each person's path is going to unfurl the same way. I don't what life holds for each.

Some of my drivers may stay for 30 years. Some may be done in 2. I have made them no promises, so if in 20 years they are going to be bitter because the job hasn't become what they thought it should be, who's fault is that? No rose gardens, no convoluted schemes to take away what they think they are owed. It is what it is.

So you tell me. What is rationalized and what ethics are being compromised? High pay and benefits? That's not ethics, that's economics.

Where you are going wrong is we aren't complaining because the job didn't evolve into what we thought it would be, it turned into something completely different than what was PROMISED it would be, all for the sake of enriching a few. Not just verbal promises, but annual statements of where we are now and where we will be if we put in the time. You may have not promised your drivers anything, but we were promised quite a bit. And FedEx is demonstrating with Ground where they really want us to be. That's not a solid middle class life we were promised, that's deprivation and sacrifice. You mentioned Ground guys evolving into something better. As my Grandfather used to say, when you're on your back everything is looking up. Not asking for the moon, just a decent income and a decent pension. If Fred wants to be a Rockefeller more power to him. Just not at my expense.