1000 Jobs Saved...

[59 Dano]

Then answer this question. Why were 800 jobs at one Carrier plant in Indiana chosen to be saved but no attempt was made to save 1300 other jobs at another Carrier plant in Indiana along with several hundred jobs at a bearing plant just few miles up the road ? Don't try to tell that they weren't competitive but the 800 were because special concessions had to be made in order to save them. Those 800 were saved for no reason than the political and public relations benefits they had to offer.

What you're saying is that a man who is almost completely unconcerned about his public image that just won the biggest election in the world has cut a deal in order to gain a political advantage and to make himself look good.

 

[59 Dano]

Any pro labor legislation he might have introduced would have been killed in committee.

Yet Trump just helped to cut a deal between Carrier and the state of Indiana AND HE HASN'T EVEN BEEN SWORN IN YET. A committee couldn't kill it even if it wanted to do so. Obama had the opportunity to do the same thing, as did Hillary.[/QUOTE]

 

[bacha29]

The question remains. Why were these 800 singled out for saving but upwards of 2000 others in the vicinity were not? What made them so special? There were no defense or national security issues involved.

 

[It will be fine]

Oh, come ON!

Obama specifically addressed Trump and Carrier earlier this year. He mocked Trump's comments about negotiating a better deal and made his infamous "magic wand" remark. Obama's answer for the Carrier situation? Job training programs for people who would lose their jobs.

You guys can (and probably will) nitpick this until you're blue in the face, but Trump showed how lazy Obama has been when it comes to working on behalf of the American blue collar worker.

Trump campaigned against the type of deal he offered. He said paying these companies to stick around doesn't work. He would threaten them with high tariffs and they would fold and stay in the country. Now he changed his mind and for some reason his supporters think it's great.

 

[vantexan]

Obama was a minority president for the last 6 years of his presidency. Any pro labor legislation he might have introduced would have been killed in committee.Just as his attempt to get overtime pay for low salaried employees was overturned by a pro business Texas judge last week.And no doubt that his order raising the minimum wage for employees of government contractors will no doubt be abolished by Trump.

The president has the "bully pulpit." He should have introduced the legislation anyways and railed against the Republicans stopping it. The fact is this president has refused to work with the Republicans on anything, reach compromise. He made that very clear when he had a Democrat Congress, and it cost him. Good riddance to the most extreme president in history.

 

[BrownArmy]

He is the president. Better get used to it or move to Canada like people threatened to do. We put up with Obama and his failed foreign policy and economic plans. Give Trump a chance.

Like the Republicans gave Obama a chance?

LOL.

Whether you admit it or not, the economy Trump is inheriting is worlds better than the economy Obama inherited.

Perfect? Of course not.

The Carrier deal sets a bad precedent.

So, what, companies can simply threaten to move to wherever in order to leverage tax concessions? OK.

Is Trump going to individually negotiate deals with every single company?

Rubbish. This is a PR move at best.

Fix the tax policy at a governmental level, now we're talking.

But, unfortunately, Trump is putting the foxes in charge of the hen house, even though he campaigned on working for the economically dispossessed.

Lulz - look at his economic cabinet picks, avatars of all he decried while campaigning.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

 

[59 Dano]

The question remains. Why were these 800 singled out for saving but upwards of 2000 others in the vicinity were not? What made them so special? There were no defense or national security issues involved.

Interesting logic, bacha. "If you can't do everything all at once, do nothing."

 

[59 Dano]

Trump campaigned against the type of deal he offered. He said paying these companies to stick around doesn't work. He would threaten them with high tariffs and they would fold and stay in the country. Now he changed his mind and for some reason his supporters think it's great.

The deal is between Carrier and the state of Indiana. "He" didn't offer them anything. Just just helped the two parties come to an agreement. And Carrier didn't get paid. Not a dime.

 

[BrownArmy]

The deal is between Carrier and the state of Indiana. "He" didn't offer them anything. Just just helped the two parties come to an agreement. And Carrier didn't get paid. Not a dime.

That's an optimistic assessment.

Carrier was offered this deal before by the state of Indiana and turned it down. What changed?

Did Trump leverage governmental contracts with Carriers' parent company? We'll likely never know.

But look outside this singular deal. This is a sloppy way to do business, and simply doesn't scale.

PR move, with dubious metrics, all because Trump values optics over substance.

I get it, it was one of his campaign issues, so now he looks like a 'winner', but it's a dubious deal and has no real relationship to 'fixing' Americas manufacturing problem.

US manufacturing output is higher than it's ever been, with 1/5 the work force.

Is Trump going to strong arm companies into not automating?

Please.

 

[bacha29]

The deal is between Carrier and the state of Indiana. "He" didn't offer them anything. Just just helped the two parties come to an agreement. And Carrier didn't get paid. Not a dime.

" Not a dime"? You call 7 million in tax concessions "not a dime"? Then why did trump organize a special political rally for? And again. Why were these 800 chosen to be saved and 2000 others were not? The fact remains if you're losing more jobs than you're saving what is the benefit?

 

[59 Dano]

That's an optimistic assessment.

Carrier was offered this deal before by the state of Indiana and turned it down. What changed?

Carrier was offered A deal previously, not quite THIS deal.

Did Trump leverage governmental contracts with Carriers' parent company? We'll likely never know.

But look outside this singular deal. This is a sloppy way to do business, and simply doesn't scale.

The speculation is that Carrier agreed to this deal because it wanted to stay in the good graces of the federal government, the head of whom had made a big deal of the decision to relocate. IOW, Carrier went into full butt-kissing mode.

PR move, with dubious metrics, all because Trump values optics over substance.

The same Trump whose entire campaign was one giant bad optic?

Is Trump going to strong arm companies into not automating?

He hasn't strong-armed anyone into anything yet.

 

[59 Dano]

" Not a dime"? You call 7 million in tax concessions "not a dime"?

That's right, bacha. They weren't paid a single dime. They were granted tax concessions. Didn't cost anyone anything. No one had to give a dime to anyone else. If you're of at least average intelligence, then it makes sense. If not, eh. Not my problem.

The fact remains if you're losing more jobs than you're saving what is the benefit?

I don't know how to respond to someone who's dumb enough to think that it's better to lose ALL the jobs than SOME of the jobs. I'm sorry, I'm just not stupid enough to think at that level.

 

[BrownArmy]

Carrier was offered A deal previously, not quite THIS deal.




The speculation is that Carrier agreed to this deal because it wanted to stay in the good graces of the federal government, the head of whom had made a big deal of the decision to relocate. IOW, Carrier went into full butt-kissing mode.



The same Trump whose entire campaign was one giant bad optic?



He hasn't strong-armed anyone into anything yet.

You're still being optimistic.

No worries, everyone who analyzes 'their team' gives their team the benefit of the doubt.

Just like the hard-core Obama supporters who overlooked his mistakes and shortcomings.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, and I sincerely hope Trump is the bestest President ever, Big League style!

I still think this is a sloppy deal, more PR than substance.

YMMV.

 

[bacha29]

That's right, bacha. They weren't paid a single dime. They were granted tax concessions. Didn't cost anyone anything. No one had to give a dime to anyone else. If you're of at least average intelligence, then it makes sense. If not, eh. Not my problem.



I don't know how to respond to someone who's dumb enough to think that it's better to lose ALL the jobs than SOME of the jobs. I'm sorry, I'm just not stupid enough to think at that level.

The people who hold those other 2100 jobs are American citizens as well. Are they not entitled to the same efforts on the part of their government to save their jobs as well ? ........ Well, are they or are they not? You tell me.

 

[vantexan]

The people who hold those other 2100 jobs are American citizens as well. Are they not entitled to the same efforts on the part of their government to save their jobs as well ? ........ Well, are they or are they not? You tell me.

Which companies are you referring to and exactly how many are in danger of losing their jobs? Your number keeps growing.

 

[It will be fine]

Which companies are you referring to and exactly how many are in danger of losing their jobs? Your number keeps growing.

Probably Carrier. They are still shutting down another plant. I think he's referencing another manufacturer that is also shutting down in Indiana and adding those jobs into the total. Trump's win here is just PR. Nothing has been solved he couldn't cut their taxes enough to keep all the jobs.

 

[bacha29]

Which companies are you referring to and exactly how many are in danger of losing their jobs? Your number keeps growing.

Roxnard 350 CTS 250 another Carrier plant at Fort Wayne 700 600 at the existing Carrier plant that will not be saved. now 3 years or so when the tax concessions expire there will be nothing to stop Carrier from moving the 800 so called "saved" jobs along with the 300 salaried management and administrative jobs Trump claims to have saved but were not scheduled to go to Mexico. Now it's easy for him to say that there will be "consequences" for those companies who want to off shore their their manufacturing production. he's already off shored his manufacturing. Now why with these other manufacturing employers all located near the Carrier plant where 800 jobs were "saved" all having announced within the same time frame their intentions to move off shore why were there no efforts made by their government to save their jobs given that the employees are citizens as well and entitled to the same representation ?

 

[Oldfart]

People act like this is the first time government has given tax relief. I listed 3 instances earlier where FDX got about 35 million in tax relief. Nobody complained then. Why start now?

 

[bacha29]

People act like this is the first time government has given tax relief. I listed 3 instances earlier where FDX got about 35 million in tax relief. Nobody complained then. Why start now?

It's about providing tax concessions to one company in exchange for not out sourcing jobs but doing nothing for an even larger number of people a few miles down the road who are about to lose their jobs to out sourcing

 

[vantexan]

It's about providing tax concessions to one company in exchange for not out sourcing jobs but doing nothing for an even larger number of people a few miles down the road who are about to lose their jobs to out sourcing

He's not even president yet. Give him time.