2018 Contract leaks

[Bubblehead]

It's hard for UPS people, comprehend life outside their own job.

My Local has "white paper" contracts that spell out attendance policies.

4 infractions = warning letter
5 infractions = suspension
6 infractions = termination.... period.... end of story.

I don't understand your point???

In our region, it's been a long established practice that 6 "occurrences" starts a similar "progression" at UPS.

Are you trying to say that since it isn't specifically spelled out in the Central Region Supplement, that somehow insulates those who don't feel a need to be punctual or report within the prescribed guidelines?

Personally, with all of the added protect that FMLA provides, I have very little sympathy for those called out for their poor attendance issues...

...and with that in mind grow tired of having other issues overlooked or pointblank traded off in order to allow these slugs to not be fired.

So in closing, yes spell it out and live with it, for the betterment of the many, instead of the undeserving few.



~Bbbl~™

 

[Inthegame]

I don't understand your point???

In our region, it's been a long established practice that 6 "occurrences" starts a similar "progression" at UPS.

Are you trying to say that since it isn't specifically spelled out in the Central Region Supplement, that somehow insulates those who don't feel a need to be punctual or report within the prescribed guidelines?

Personally, with all of the added protect that FMLA provides, I have very little sympathy for those called out for their poor attendance issues...

...and with that in mind grow tired of having other issues overlooked or pointblank traded off in order to allow these slugs to not be fired.

So in closing, yes spell it out and live with it, for the betterment of the many, instead of the undeserving few.



~Bbbl~™

I took BUG's meaning as white papers often have much more ridgid attendance policies than UPS. In many cases these policies are "no fault" so even if a perfectly legit excuse is offered and one hits their limit, sayonara.

As a steward I was once called in the office to represent a member with threatened discipline for 72 tardies in a year. I laughed at the manager stating, "so 71 is OK? You finally do something at 72." He realized how foolish he would look so he asked me to help straighten the guy out. Of course I obliged and our man retired 15 years later, seldom late again.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Was there language in the past that prevented UPS from changing your start time more than 1 hour unless mutually agreed upon by the employee and employer?

You may be thinking of Article 3 Section 9 of the Central involving changing a route by 50% or more or changing a start time by an hour or more, allowing a bump.

Yep.

It can get confusing.

I have very little sympathy for those called out for their poor attendance issues.

I am "cherry picking" this statement.

But.... whoa.

I took BUG's meaning as white papers often have much more ridgid attendance policies than UPS. In many cases these policies are "no fault" so even if a perfectly legit excuse is offered and one hits their limit, sayonara.

Accurate summation.

TDU and Teamsters United....Can "Put Up or Shut Up".



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

I took BUG's meaning as white papers often have much more ridgid attendance policies than UPS. In many cases these policies are "no fault" so even if a perfectly legit excuse is offered and one hits their limit, sayonara.

Yea, I completely understood that part, as his example included this:

It's hard for UPS people, comprehend life outside their own job.

My Local has "white paper" contracts that spell out attendance policies.

4 infractions = warning letter
5 infractions = suspension
6 infractions = termination.... period.... end of story.

So, with this in mind, it really isn't that much different than the "no fault" policy that is the standard here (6 occurrences in 9 months)?

Here in lies the moral to the story, progression of discipline, where you have 2 chances to change your behavior before "end of story", as it should be.

I'm assuming these "white paper" contracts typically provide for arbitration, akin to our panel system?

As a steward I was once called in the office to represent a member with threatened discipline for 72 tardies in a year. I laughed at the manager stating, "so 71 is OK? You finally do something at 72." He realized how foolish he would look so he asked me to help straighten the guy out. Of course I obliged and our man retired 15 years later, seldom late again.

Perfect example!!!...thank you.

This guy, while technically over the "limit", was never afforded the opportunity to correct his issue before being called on the carpet.

When he was made aware, he fixed it.

The system belatedly worked as designed, albeit it due to management negligence.

What BA worth his salt could not make that case at a panel or arbitration hearing???

I am "cherry picking" this statement.

But.... whoa.

Another term would be "taking the statement out of context", which is grossly unfair?

Personally, with all of the added protection that FMLA provides, I have very little sympathy for those called out for their poor attendance issues...

...and with that in mind grow tired of having other issues overlooked or pointblank traded off in order to allow these slugs to not be fired.

...but I understand why you would "cherry pick", rather than address the entire thought, as it doesn't fit your agenda.

TDU and Teamsters United....Can "Put Up or Shut Up".

...and there he goes again.

SMH




~Bbbl~™

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I'm assuming these "white paper" contracts typically provide for arbitration, akin to our panel system?

Yep.

But what Local is going to pay for arbitration, on a case you can't win ?


* In my Local, the executive board would vote on the expenditure based

on advice recommended by the Local's attorney *

Another term would be "taking the statement out of context", which is grossly unfair?

That's why prefaced my comment. It just almost seemed anti-union.

...and there he goes again.

When has either TDU or Teamsters United, said anything positive about the IBT ?


Teamsters Union Wins $1 Million Settlement on Behalf of Drivers at YRC Freight


Tit-for-Tat.... I can play that game too.



-Bug-

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Yep.

But what Local is going to pay for arbitration, on a case you can't win ?


* In my Local, the executive board would vote on the expenditure based

on advice recommended by the Local's attorney *





That's why prefaced my comment. It just almost seemed anti-union.





When has either TDU or Teamsters United, said anything positive about the IBT ?


Teamsters Union Wins $1 Million Settlement on Behalf of Drivers at YRC Freight


Tit-for-Tat.... I can play that game too.



-Bug-

Thank you for everything you do.

 

[623STEWARD]

Thank you for everything you do.

he rammed a contract down our throats? yeah thanks for that BUG

 

[623STEWARD]

View attachment 175724

we can all dream at night... right??

 

[BigUnionGuy]

he rammed a contract down our throats? yeah thanks for that BUG

Were you, and your fellow Union Members....

Not allowed to vote on the contract ?



-Bug-

 

[Frankie's Friend]

When has either TDU or Teamsters United, said anything positive about the IBT?
-Bug-

When Carey was GP. (Btw we are the ibt.) Did u mean the leadership that shoved teamcare down our throats after offering us the c6 plan to make us think that we got lucky to dodge that? The once a week benefits punch change without telling us? The change in language about 95s rolling week without a language change? The hoffa supporters that were indicted by the iio after the ibt leadership tried to cover and stall for them (Rome, OCT)? The way he treated SO because he wasnt company friendly like Junior? Shall we expound further? Please dont call me tdu because im not tdu but we arent blind and deaf sheep altho hof/hall/ups thinks we are. Please. Voting tally evidence points to the disgrundlement about ibt leadership. Its not tdu or tu. They exist because of disgruntled membership.

 

[Bubblehead]

Yep.

But what Local is going to pay for arbitration, on a case you can't win ?


* In my Local, the executive board would vote on the expenditure based

on advice recommended by the Local's attorney *

If that's the case, then you and your Local's attorneys may need to look yourselves in the mirror and take responsibility for the crap "white paper" contract you negotiated for them?

I still think you're embellishing a bit?
In your example, it outlines a 3 step process:

My Local has "white paper" contracts that spell out attendance policies.

4 infractions = warning letter
5 infractions = suspension
6 infractions = termination.... period.... end of story.

If the Company fails to satisfy this progression, how is the case not winnable?

Are we to assume that the Company can lay in the weeds and do nothing, until it reaches the discharge level, without affording the employee the opportunity to fix it.

How hard would it be to have inserted a phrase such as:

6 infractions = termination, provided the progression has been satisfied?...(instead of....period....end of story)

I'm sorry we didn't talk sooner???
We could have saved peoples jobs.

That's why prefaced my comment. It just almost seemed anti-union.

Your "preface" didn't make it right or fair out of context of the entire paragraph Sam.

Anti-union in the sense of "we have to save every employee, from themselves, at any cost"???

If that's the "Union notion" you are referring to, then I am guilty, as I do not subscribe.

I believe every employee should be able to make a mistake, then have an opportunity to correct it.

In the end, not everyone will be able to.

When has either TDU or Teamsters United, said anything positive about the IBT ?

No idea about TDU, as I don't subscribe, why do you?
Teamsters United, why would they when they are a rival political force?
Did you make a habit of speaking highly of slates that you have run against in past local elections?

 

[BigUnionGuy]

If that's the case, then you and your Local's attorneys may need to look yourselves in the mirror and take responsibility for the crap "white paper" contract you negotiated for them?

They are long standing contracts, well before I was involved.

Your "preface" didn't make it right or fair out of context of the entire paragraph Sam

Wow, @Bubblehead is taking off the gloves.... comparing me to a former officer

in his Local.

Did you make a habit of speaking highly of slates that you have run against in past local elections?

Never said anything positive or negative. Don't even acknowledge them.

Members hate negative campaigning, and are more interested in your goals

for providing them the best representation they can get.

When Carey was GP.

Some people are still living in 1997....



-Bug-

 

[Frankie's Friend]

They are long standing contracts, well before I was involved.



Wow, @Bubblehead is taking off the gloves.... comparing me to a former officer

in his Local.





Never said anything positive or negative. Don't even acknowledge them.

Members hate negative campaigning, and are more interested in your goals

for providing them the best representation they can get.





Some people are still living in 1997....



-Bug-

"Some people" dodge present day truth to cover up reality.
If JPH didnt tote the family name hed be nonexistant in teamster history. We all know this. Carey earned his job in the trenches. JPH is just another lawyer in the sea of white collars.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

"Some people" dodge present day truth to cover up reality.

I hate to disappoint you....

I have always maintained, personal responsibility and accepting the consequences.

Carey earned his job in the trenches.

Maybe....

It didn't translate, to any sort of long term career with the Teamsters IBT.



-Bug-

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I hate to disappoint you....

I have always maintained, personal responsibility and accepting the consequences.




Maybe....

It didn't translate, to any sort of long term career with the Teamsters IBT.



-Bug-

It is easier to remember other's transgressions than our own.
As for the other issue look where we are today. Just saying.

 

[623STEWARD]

Were you, and your fellow Union Members....

Not allowed to vote on the contract ?



-Bug-

We voted no and you and your leader imposed an unwanted contract on us.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

You and your leader imposed an unwanted contract on us.

I did that ?

Along, with the General President of the Teamsters ?


I always knew.... I was a badass.

Get some.

 

[623STEWARD]

I did that ?

Along, with the General President of the Teamsters ?


I always knew.... I was a badass.

Get some.

yes you all did
your time will come
GOD sees everything
remember that

 

[Bubblehead]

They are long standing contracts, well before I was involved.

Then it would seem as if these "long standing", "white paper" contracts should have been reopened "long" ago, if for no other reason than to address that crazy attendance policy that is "unwinnable" if challenged in arbitration.

Wow, @Bubblehead is taking off the gloves.... comparing me to a former officer

in his Local.

Only if you continue to insist that taking a sentence out of context is fair???

Your flimsy disclaimer/admission, (I believe you used the term "cherry pick") doesn't validate that notion in this medium.
In my opinion it's dirty pool.

For those who don't know, my comparison was of a guy formally in my Local who was notorious for taking things out of context, even contractual language.
He set my Local back a decade or more and I will forever hate his guts.

In the end, this was only time that I was ever compelled to compare @BigUnionGuy to Sam, doing so only because I knew it would get his attention.

I actually enjoy the joust and find it educational, when he plays fair.

Did you make a habit of speaking highly of slates that you have run against in past local elections?

Never said anything positive or negative. Don't even acknowledge them.
Members hate negative campaigning, and are more interested in your goals
for providing them the best representation they can get.

Somehow I have a hard time believing that, in light of the fact that you can't seem to employ that mindset here in regards to TDU and Teamsters United?

Besides, you already said it best:

Tit-for-Tat.... I can play that game too.

~Bbbl~™

 

[623STEWARD]

What’s wrong wiTh bucalo?

Then it would seem as if these "long standing", "white paper" contracts should have been reopened "long" ago, if for no other reason than to address that crazy attendance policy that is "unwinnable" if challenged in arbitration.

Only if you continue to insist that taking a sentence out of context is fair???

Your flimsy disclaimer/admission, (I believe you used the term "cherry pick") doesn't validate that notion in this medium.
In my opinion it's dirty pool.

For those who don't know, my comparison was of a guy formally in my Local who was notorious for taking things out of context, even contractual language.
He set my Local back a decade or more and I will forever hate his guts.

In the end, this was only time that I was ever compelled to compare @BigUnionGuy to Sam, doing so only because I knew it would get his attention.

I actually enjoy the joust and find it educational, when he plays fair.



Somehow I have a hard time believing that, in light of the fact that you can't seem to employ that mindset here in regards to TDU and Teamsters United?

Besides, you already said it best:





~Bbbl~™