8 Year Old Football Players Take Knee

[refineryworker05]

Part of the problem is that there is no MLK of BLM. Colin Kaepernick is not Tommie Smith or John Carlos on the Olympic podium. People feel like there is no goal, there's no Civil Rights Act to be passed here.

What is the end goal? No one seems to know, there is no organization, no specific agenda. There's no political party or movement that could successfully effect change on a real level..... so people who aren't one of the minority groups feel like the whole debate does nothing but to divide us. Right or wrong, it's not a good situation for either side of the discussion.

I disagree. This to your first point about MLK. MLK when he was alive was more hated and was seen as more divisive than anyone you can imagine. We like to pretend that America loved MLK but most Americans hated his guts and saw him and the civil rights movement as dividing the nation. The reality is there has never been a protest movement for the equal rights of black Americans that wasn't absolutely despised by the majority of white Americans.

 

[refineryworker05]

Part of the problem is that there is no MLK of BLM. Colin Kaepernick is not Tommie Smith or John Carlos on the Olympic podium. People feel like there is no goal, there's no Civil Rights Act to be passed here.

What is the end goal? No one seems to know, there is no organization, no specific agenda. There's no political party or movement that could successfully effect change on a real level..... so people who aren't one of the minority groups feel like the whole debate does nothing but to divide us. Right or wrong, it's not a good situation for either side of the discussion.

To your second point, BLM put out a plan for what they want, but it's kind of obvious what is wanted. Police reforms that lead to less violence, murder towards and disrespectful treatment of black Americans and punishment for the police when they break the law against black Americans.

So I disagree about people's feelings, they aren't reacting to the unclear goals of BLM or a lack of a MLK figure, they are reacting like they always have to the whole idea of black people demanding civil rights and equal treatment before the law.

Again, this thing that we see today is the same damn reaction over and over and over to any effective civil rights movement for black Americans. And BLM was/is effective.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

To your second point, BLM put out a plan for what they want, but it's kind of obvious what is wanted. Police reforms that lead to less violence, murder towards and disrespectful treatment of black Americans.

So I disagree about people's feelings, they aren't reacting to the unclear goals of BLM or a lack of a MLK figure, they are reacting like they always have to the whole idea of black people demanding civil rights and equal treatment before the law.

Again, this thing that we see today is the same damn reaction over and over and over to any effective civil rights movement for black Americans. And BLM was/is effective.

I respect your opinion, and I'm trying to empathize with your position, but there are serious problems with trying to take this agenda on a nationwide level.

We might disagree on this, but with the exception of the random racist prick out there, for the most part, systematic police abuse towards minorities is isolated in certain areas. You can take cities like Baltimore and St. Louis, and there are undeniably problems with civil rights violations by law enforcement. Stop and Frisk in New York, I have major problems with that and that could be a whole other debate.

But that's not necessarily indicative of a problem as a whole nationwide. That's why it's hard to get people on board across the country, they don't see the problems you're talking about where they live. They just see it as an attack on the people who protect us. People who are championing this cause need to take that into account if they want their voices to be taken seriously.

 

[refineryworker05]

I know just as many (if not more) black racists as I do white. Neither side is better or worse than the other.


These kids are 8. Their only opinion is what's projected on them from home. This is parents teaching their kids the world is against them and they should always be defensive.

Like I said both sides hold equal blame.

What does this even mean? What does the so called black racists you know have to do with kneeling during the national anthem to protest police violence?

Yes one side has racism, and white supremacy, the other side doesn't. I can assure you the white supremacist side did a lot more to the other side, but you run with reality/history doesn't matter.

Yes, parents influence their children's thinking, is that a revelation to you? So now you know what they are teaching their children? LOL I'd say they are teaching their children to stand up to racism and its their responsibility like other black Americans have always had to do and that's the only way things will get better. But you go with your interpretation.

 

[refineryworker05]

The problem is who you are talking about and who you are talking to here are for the most part two separate groups of people.

No, they aren't. According to polling data the biggest predictor of being a Trump supporter/voter beside having racial resentment towards black Americans is being against BLM and protests against police violence. These people are one and the same.

 

[Brownslave688]

What does this even mean? What does black racists have to do with kneeling during the national anthem to protest police violence?

Yes one side has racism, and white supremacy, the other side doesn't. I can assure you the white supremacist side did a lot more to the other side, but you run with reality doesn't matter.

Yes, parents influence their children's thinking, is that a revelation to you. So now you know what they are teaching their children. LOL I'd say they are teaching their children to stand up to racism and its their responsibility like other black Americans have always had to do and that's the only way things will get better. But you go with your interpretation.

Have you bothered to look into this at all?


Like I said I'm sure the kids knew this guy was a drug dealer that had a gun and lead cops on a high speed chase. Yeah I'm sure the parents explained that.


The kids said and I quote "black people are being killed and no one is going to jail for it."


Yeah kid that's the whole story lmao. In that case better take that protest to Chicago where brothers are killing brothers by the dozen but no one wants to snitch so no one goes to jail.

 

[Brownslave688]

No, they aren't. According to polling data the biggest predictor of being a Trump supporter/voter beside having racial resentment towards black Americans is being against BLM and the police protests. These people are one and the same.

According to polling data.

Give me a break. We saw how accurate that data was last November.

 

[silverbullet2893]

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

View attachment 156715

I been to a few concerts in maryland heights
it's a bit of a blur to be honest

 

[refineryworker05]

I respect your opinion, and I'm trying to empathize with your position, but there are serious problems with trying to take this agenda on a nationwide level.

We might disagree on this, but with the exception of the random racist prick out there, for the most part, systematic police abuse towards minorities is isolated in certain areas. You can take cities like Baltimore and St. Louis, and there are undeniably problems with civil rights violations by law enforcement. Stop and Frisk in New York, I have major problems with that and that could be a whole other debate.

But that's not necessarily indicative of a problem as a whole nationwide. That's why it's hard to get people on board across the country, they don't see the problems you're talking about where they live. They just see it as an attack on the people who protect us. People who are championing this cause need to take that into account if they want their voices to be taken seriously.

Your first mistake is your belief that systematic police abuse is in isolated areas. Any serious look at policing data indicates that black Americans face rampant abuse all around the nation.

Your second mistake is the idea that you can take police reforms "national". The efforts of BLM with local citizens was targeting their local police departments for reform using the federal government, trying to organize citizens, and to win local elections.

Your third mistake is thinking that others matter in this fight. If black Americans waited on others to see their issues....

Who is they and why do "they" matter? If you aren't black, if you don't live in the places where there are protests for local police department reforms, what is "theys" stake in it one way or another?

"They" are always going to be opposed cause "they" have always been opposed.

If you honestly think you'll see that the problem for "them" is "they" don't want black people demanding equal treatment before the law and that's their stake in this thing and why they are angry.

 

[silverbullet2893]

I been to a few concerts in maryland heights
it's a bit of a blur to be honest

It's about 30 ish miles from Cahokia.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

It's about 30 ish miles from Cahokia.

Bout 6 hour drive time for me, they get some good concerts there, totally worth it. Plus there's a casino there for afterwards. Good times.

 

[Brownslave688]

I respect your opinion, and I'm trying to empathize with your position, but there are serious problems with trying to take this agenda on a nationwide level.

We might disagree on this, but with the exception of the random racist prick out there, for the most part, systematic police abuse towards minorities is isolated in certain areas. You can take cities like Baltimore and St. Louis, and there are undeniably problems with civil rights violations by law enforcement. Stop and Frisk in New York, I have major problems with that and that could be a whole other debate.

But that's not necessarily indicative of a problem as a whole nationwide. That's why it's hard to get people on board across the country, they don't see the problems you're talking about where they live. They just see it as an attack on the people who protect us. People who are championing this cause need to take that into account if they want their voices to be taken seriously.

And be a little more selective about the cases they raise hell about.


Every white cop shooting a black person isn't cause to take to the streets.

 

[Brownslave688]

Bout 6 hour drive time for me, they get some good concerts there, totally worth it. Plus there's a casino there for afterwards. Good times.

I've been to a handful there.

 

[silverbullet2893]

Bout 6 hour drive time for me, they get some good concerts there, totally worth it. Plus there's a casino there for afterwards. Good times.

A security guard got shot at the casino in east Saint Louis this last weekend.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

And be a little more selective about the cases they raise hell about.


Every white cop shooting a black person isn't cause to take to the streets.

Well, it's kind of a crap situation.
The guy was a dirtbag. But the cop was shady as hell, and it's plausible that he killed the guy and planted a gun. There's not enough proof of that so he goes free. That's the way the justice system works, for better or worse.

You're right though, it's a piss poor example to use for a protest.

 

[Brownslave688]

Well, it's kind of a crap situation.
The guy was a dirtbag. But the cop was shady as hell, and it's plausible that he killed the guy and planted a gun. There's not enough proof of that so he goes free. That's the way the justice system works, for better or worse.

You're right though, it's a piss poor example to use for a protest.

Yeah I'm not saying this cop wasn't shady but let's not act like the victim was an angel.


That's my point in most of these situations.

 

[silverbullet2893]

You're right though, it's a piss poor example to use for a protest.

I guess it's just hard for me to grasp the idea of protesting as tearing stuff up and stealing or whatever. I don't agree with that. In any circumstance. What good does that do? Yeah, the cop might have been shady and a total tool box, but that doesn't mean you can tear everything up. thats my problem with it.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

I guess it's just hard for me to grasp the idea of protesting as tearing stuff up and stealing or whatever. I don't agree with that. In any circumstance. What good does that do? Yeah, the cop might have been shady and a total tool box, but that doesn't mean you can tear everything up. thats my problem with it.

Desperation. Lack of options.
Destruction as a form of creation.
When you feel there's no other option, all you want to do is tear the world apart, and hope something else, anything else, gets built back up in its place.

Of course, there are other options, but people don't always see things that way in the moment. It's a shame it comes to that, but it is what it is. I'm glad it's not my city.

 

[silverbullet2893]

Desperation. Lack of options.
Destruction as a form of creation.
When you feel there's no other option, all you want to do is tear the world apart, and hope something else, anything else, gets built back up in its place.

Of course, there are other options, but people don't always see things that way in the moment. It's a shame it comes to that, but it is what it is. I'm glad it's not my city.

It sucks it's mine.........again.