Changes in Management Compensation?

Discussion in 'UPS Partners' started by Hoaxster, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    There were some rumors going round the building today that there would be some changes in management pay and maybe MIP.
    I don't think anyone had any details. Anybody heard any details?
  2. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    Yes, changed.

    As far as I can tell, nothing lost, just changed.

    1/2 month is now given throughout the year instead of at the end of the year.

    Ownership incentive calculation is now changed.

    MIP now given out in April (i think)

    Also changes to Division manager and up compensation. Again, not more or less, just different.

    Nothing really lost, trying to align with other reporting time periods.
    Lasted edited by : Nov 8, 2010
  3. FracusBrown

    FracusBrown Ponies and Planes

    If it seems too good to be true, it's probably not true. Every time something changes just to make it more convenient, it changes for the worse. Benefits, pay raise alignment, 401k match, MIP reformulated, RSUs, vacations, retirement - all losses disguised as a convenient exchange.

    The savings for the company on MIP RSU's is up. That means they need to find another way to keep compensation expense down. Without changes, the company would take a full hit on MIP expense next year.

    I'll be very surprised if nothing is lost. If they follow suit, you'll think you're making out (or at least breaking even) with the changes the first year, then the declines will kick in.
  4. GibsonPryor

    GibsonPryor New Member

    There were changes announced for Grade 18 / 20 today and the changes for Supervisors and Managers will be announced in the morning. You heard right....
  5. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    Welcome to the brown cafe GibsonPryor.
    Your insight here is appreciated.
  6. GibsonPryor

    GibsonPryor New Member

    For GS 18/20:
    MIP Payment moves to March (includes MIP/LTI)
    Half-Month Bonus incorporated into monthly pay
    Ownership Bonus no longer based on Ownership Guidelines. Paid as % of Class A shares (now includes LTI)
    Ownership Guidelines Eliminated for Managers and Supervisors.... Begins at District Staff Level
    More changes with the LTI since incorporated into MIP now

    Hope this helps....
  7. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, it helped me understand the complexity.
    Welcome aboard.
  8. sosocal

    sosocal Member

    I think the savings to the company is that the half-month is gone for future mgt has been 'grandfathered' into our salaries, but don't think new promoties who currently start at Y--will now start at Y + (Y * (.042)).
  9. hangin455

    hangin455 Member

    Next year you'll be told you got a 4% raise and that you're now above the midpoint so......
  10. upssalesguy

    upssalesguy UPS Defender

    what's LTI? my conference call was crap i couldnt hear a thing.

    so supervisors get 17% of annual salary? managers get 33%? So there are no more factors? so every year we just bank on 17%?

    what if you are on SIP? is that included or is it just base salary?

    edit: i think that 17% is what this years MIP would be in a percentage..?
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  11. Popeye

    Popeye Member

    The details are supposed to be posted on as of 4pm today.
  12. upssalesguy

    upssalesguy UPS Defender

    yeah, i did some research. i don't seem to have a problem with this change. i hope we always exceed target.
  13. Brown Frown

    Brown Frown New Member

    It seems that we have lost one quarter's worth of MIP. Since the new plan starts in January 2011, and the old plan stopped in September 2010, we are losing October - December of 2010 (likely VERY good months). Assuming a 2.0 factor, this would equate to .5 months of salary that a supervisor is losing. Am I missing something?
  14. Lineandinitial

    Lineandinitial Active Member

    I'm concerned that the future UPSers will hear: "Welcome to UPS...BTW your salary represents a 4.2% increase for the nice Christmas Bonus you Co-Workers speak of; but pay no attention to it as we will run them off".

    I have 24 years here and I miss the atmosphere of 1997. Miss my turkey; miss my Health Benefits (where we only went when we/or others were really sick)(In other words...Responsibly as we knew these charges chipped away at the Profits)...

    UPS seems like a typical Fortune 100 Comapany.
    I feel like a pawn in the BOD hot tub plan.........

    Someone tell me I'm wrong... Insider Trading (historically) on Yahoo depicts a sell off and purchase as well as
    Option Exercising right before this announcemant.

    Tell me that it is our best interest!!!!

  15. FL_flavor

    FL_flavor New Member

    Why would you just post all of the details on here? Anyone can read it. What happened to the old school commitment not to discuss compensation? Just curious?

    I do agree that we are getting the short end of the stick. That should be no surprise.
  16. Lineandinitial

    Lineandinitial Active Member

    We're not in Kansas anymore.........Toto!!
  17. FL_flavor

    FL_flavor New Member

    It's bad enough that the drivers make more than their supervisors. This will be the first year in 6 that I may make more instead of less take home. I don't see the value of posting ALL the details. Call me crazy.

    The writing on the wall. They will screw us, every chance they get. B/C they can.
  18. Lineandinitial

    Lineandinitial Active Member

    "It's a good thing"...........for who?
  19. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    Pretzel, if you really believe that, I've got a few bridges to sell you.
    First... Let's get to the glaring issue. Although UPS said we'd get a partial MIP in Dec 2011 it's basically from the 2012 payment. We are losing the 4th qtr 2011 in MIP. Gone. Also they are spreading the 2011 MIP over two calendar years, partial payment in 2011 and the rest of the yearly MIP in 2012. So UPS shows less cost for mgmt for two years with this one change alone.

    Let's see what else we can all remember we've lost over the years.
    Here's from what I can remember.

    1. Medical benefits. Used to have no medical costs. I pay out over 500/month between medical coverage and flex to pay for my family's medical cost. Usually, I still have out of pocket beyond this. That's 6,000 per year I make less then before.
    2. MIP used to give us an interest free tax free loan on the amount of the social security tax from the MIP benefits. UPS loaned us back the 6.2% of social security tax and took it back over 10 months as an interest free loan.
    3. Holiday turkey - not much money. but a nice tradition gone.
    4. Vacations.. My first year at UPS, I had no vacation, but I could borrow one from the next year. All vacations taken in a year were earned the year prior. Magically one year they changed it and vacations are earned in the year they were taken. Now the liability they took off their books benefited UPS, but we didn't get a payout from the vacation weeks we were owed. Granted this only negative affects us if we quit. If we retire we can still get the last year of vacations. (how long will it be before that is gone?)
    5. Mystery MIP numbers. Does anyone truly believe that if we had used the old formula of 15% of the profits vs the mgmt payroll we wouldn't have had a much higher MIP these last few years?
    6. MIP -now partially given in RSU. If you stay with UPS, not too big a deal. But for anyone who leaves, they lose a lot of stock in form of RSU's that disappear.
    7. One year of no raises. This was something that still affects us since our base is always lower then it otherwise should be.
    8. Expense acct. Used to be all miles were paid at the IRS max level which now is $.50/mile. I forgot when, but now after 1,000 miles, the reimbursement is $.19 per mile.
    9. G.O. closures - Corporate relocated certain high level mgrs (district mgrs) who in effect stayed in the new district structure. But all other people now just has a new work location and has to pay for the extra long commute themselves. Or people moved themselves to keep their job.
    10. The list can go on.. But I just get more upset as I write these down.

    Almost all the time they do this, it is
    A. To better align UPS with the competition.
    B. No cost changes to employees\UPS. Just redefining how we do things (Pretzel).

    In fact, it's to reduce cost on the back of mgmt. They can get away with it due to poor economy. But I see a big exodus when the economy rebounds and no reason for a new supv to want to stay. I see getting new supervisors will be more and more difficult.

    Short term. I think for UPS this is good for them. In 10 years or so. I think they will wonder why the mgmt talent has gone downhill.
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    its an effort to eliminate the xmas bonus for future supervisors. no fuss no muss we wont complain for the unborn.

    someone crunched the numbers and figured out a benifit to awarding MIP in march. It may be something as simple as keeping retiring management around through peak. presently you have to be on the books through november 4th to get your mip. with the chanage I would think the date will be december 31st.

    not sure about the mumbo jumbo change concerning what was called good partner money. You still have to retain x amount of shares to get a full month of additional incentive. The percentage calculation would appear to allow for flucuations in the share price.

    A supervisor needs 3.5 percent to get a full month of additional incentive. A quick calculation would be to take your monthly salary and divide by .035 for a sup or .030 for a manager. Example for a supervisor 5000 divided by .035 equals 142857$ in class A share value to get a full month of additional incentive.

    if the share price drops then you would need more shares to continue earning the same additional incentive. Just think corporate could warn or in some other way manipulate the share price and actually cut their liability.

    corporate lives and speaks a different language that can add to the mistrust with these changes. Explaining the reason as a realignment that more closely realigns business plan to incentive sounds good but probably escapes most of us.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010