Cherry picking for easy warning letters...

[UPS Lifer]

My final District Manager was a real advocate of working safely. It really helps the cause when you have that kind of support. BTW, he is one of the surviving DMs. I would not characterize him as a fanatic. You can characterize me anyway you want but don't put words in my mouth. I never said I changed any of the division managers I worked for. I simply stated that you can get your boss to stop micromanaging you if you can prove you have the tools and skills to get results, but it is a challenge. For a great number of our management, it is much easier to go along than it is to apply other skills to get results. People are afraid to get to close to the edge for fear they will fall off or be pushed off. You have to have the confidence in your ability to step out and do things differently to get the desired results.

There is always a better way than using the warning letter hammer.

Any one person who feels they can change the company is delusional unless of course you are on the management committee. BTW, I was on the staff of one of the current members of the management committee. OK - forgive me, I am just being a braggart now. (Sorry)

But my point is for the rest of us..... It is more about working to change processes within your sphere of influence.

What I try to do is point out alternative processes to those supervisors and managers who are following the herd.

To focus more on your to point about management getting hammered (my words not yours) as much as non-management.... Drivers or other non-management folks don't really care about that unless the outcome affects them. You are basically stating that crap rolls down hill. Live with it and adapt to it. BTW, I am a strong advocate of working safely and using the methods. I stated that in one of my first posts on this thread. I believe in safety first and if you use the methods you will not compromise safety.

So what are you going to do that is different and better to stop the crap rolling down hill??

 

[tieguy]

To focus more on your to point about management getting hammered (my words not yours) as much as non-management.... Drivers or other non-management folks don't really care about that unless the outcome affects them. You are basically stating that crap rolls down hill. Live with it and adapt to it. BTW, I am a strong advocate of working safely and using the methods. I stated that in one of my first posts on this thread. I believe in safety first and if you use the methods you will not compromise safety.

So what are you going to do that is different and better to stop the crap rolling down hill??

your complaining about putting words in your mouth and then twist what I said. If you had read what was said rather then asssuming what was said you would have seen that the point about management getting hammered was made to address the concern that only drivers were getting hammered.


We here are fortunate that one so wise has shared his wisdom with us. I am sorry I had to correct someone so talented on such a small detail.

I believe you were gods gift to management as you tell me and I have always admired people who were able to motivate the workforce without any discipline. Its good to know your people were 100 percent on methods when away from your dissaproving eye. I wish I would have had the chance to observe you leading your people to the promised land. But alas the only managers I've known who felt they could get results without any discipline usually left me a mess that needed cleaning up.

Perhaps we can get one of your fans here to start a thread singing your praises so that the rest of us mortals may be able to reflect on the best ways to deal with the new focus on safety.

in any case I call em like I see em. I won't be lining up anytime soon to kiss your but. You already hae enough people who getting in line for that.

 

[UPS Lifer]

your complaining about putting words in your mouth and then twist what I said. If you had read what was said rather then asssuming what was said you would have seen that the point about management getting hammered was made to address the concern that only drivers were getting hammered.


We here are fortunate that one so wise has shared his wisdom with us. I am sorry I had to correct someone so talented on such a small detail.



I believe you were gods gift to management as you tell me and I have always admired people who were able to motivate the workforce without any discipline. Its good to know your people were 100 percent on methods when away from your dissaproving eye. I wish I would have had the chance to observe you leading your people to the promised land. But alas the only managers I've known who felt they could get results without any discipline usually left me a mess that needed cleaning up.

Perhaps we can get one of your fans here to start a thread singing your praises so that the rest of us mortals may be able to reflect on the best ways to deal with the new focus on safety.

in any case I call em like I see em. I won't be lining up anytime soon to kiss your but. You already hae enough people who getting in line for that.

Yeah - I can do the same... I calls um like I seez um too! It really bothers you that a management person can understand the non-management's point of view. It is very obvious why there are a lot of non-management folks who get riled up when they see you post. English must be a second language for you ... or maybe you are so enraged that you can't think straight..... In any case, you are having a difficult time paraphrasing my posts!!!

Keep trying maybe you will get one right!!!!

I don't want to take up anymore of this thread with this back and forth nonsense so as Bill O'Reilly would say - "i will give you the last word".

 

[DS]

It is what it is....tie please,not that line.... . If you need to feel that you are better then management in order to be able to get out of bed then reach out to sat and DS and get all the gory details that will help you live your life filled with hatred for those in power.
[. [/COLOR]

You make some good points tie about drivers NEEDING a kick in the butt in the name of safety BUT what the heck are you accusing SD and DS of? EH?
weird

 

[satellitedriver]

You make some good points tie about drivers NEEDING a kick in the butt in the name of safety BUT what the heck are you accusing SD and DS of? EH?
weird

He was accusing us of being clueless about the verifiable numbers of attrition within UPS.
Facts are easy to verify.
I am on my 13th center manager and there must be reasons that this has happened in my short 23yr job/career.
Not to mention, but I will, I am on my 5th, maybe 6th DM.
The attrition rate is almost a fibonacci sequence.

 

[tieguy]

You make some good points tie about drivers NEEDING a kick in the butt in the name of safety BUT what the heck are you accusing SD and DS of? EH?
weird

He was accusing us of being clueless about the verifiable numbers of attrition within UPS.
Facts are easy to verify.
I am on my 13th center manager and there must be reasons that this has happened in my short 23yr job/career.
Not to mention, but I will, I am on my 5th, maybe 6th DM.
The attrition rate is almost a fibonacci sequence.

comon guys stay with me you're usually two of the most objective posters we have here.

that line was in reference to the unusually high management attrition rates you have seen in your buildiings.

 

[tieguy]

You make some good points tie about drivers NEEDING a kick in the butt in the name of safety BUT what the heck are you accusing SD and DS of? EH?
weird

DS some need a kick in the but. But more so they have to understand they can't pick and choose when they do the methods anymore. If they put on a show in the building and then go out and selectively practice the methods they agree with on the route then they will get burned like some here have said they did.

 

[tieguy]

Yeah - I can do the same... I calls um like I seez um too! It really bothers you that a management person can understand the non-management's point of view. It is very obvious why there are a lot of non-management folks who get riled up when they see you post. English must be a second language for you ... or maybe you are so enraged that you can't think straight..... In any case, you are having a difficult time paraphrasing my posts!!!

Keep trying maybe you will get one right!!!!

I don't want to take up anymore of this thread with this back and forth nonsense so as Bill O'Reilly would say - "i will give you the last word".

I could be wrong. Maybe you really are this visionary that you are trying to sell yourself as.
but my fear is your management style is the reason drivers like sober are getting burned on these surprise audits now.

The days of my style gets results so leave my operation alone are gone.
In todays world you can't hide your operations sins like you could then. Now each accident and each injury gets intense scrutiny far above anything you ever saw.

 

[705red]

Tie you need a little break my friend. Its one thing to defend such an action as in a BS warning letter, but everyone that has posted agrees that it is wrong to a point, except you. I would not call this a pack jumping as you see many of these posters are not part of the pack.

It could be that you could just be wrong this time?!

 

[Bubblehead]

I could be wrong. Maybe you really are this visionary that you are trying to sell yourself as.
but my fear is your management style is the reason drivers like sober are getting burned on these surprise audits now.

The days of my style gets results so leave my operation alone are gone.
In todays world you can't hide your operations sins like you could then. Now each accident and each injury gets intense scrutiny far above anything you ever saw.

Hopefully with events of this week, coupled with realignment of the districs, there won't be as much time for these micromanagerial methods. If not with this round of "fat trimming", the next.

 

[tieguy]

Tie you need a little break my friend. Its one thing to defend such an action as in a BS warning letter, but everyone that has posted agrees that it is wrong to a point, except you. I would not call this a pack jumping as you see many of these posters are not part of the pack.

It could be that you could just be wrong this time?!

Red I am wrong.



If I wanted popularity i would simply tell everyone what a great guy I am.

 

[tieguy]

Hopefully with events of this week, coupled with realignment of the districs, there won't be as much time for these micromanagerial methods. If not with this round of "fat trimming", the next.

I think we all hope it kills some of the micromanagement.

We'll find out in a couple of weeks. The guys that survive the cut have to go through some type of training the end of this month on the new philosophy.

 

[705red]

Red I am wrong.



If I wanted popularity i would simply tell everyone what a great guy I am.

The first step in the 12 step program is to admit that you have a problem. Congrats!

 

[tieguy]

The first step in the 12 step program is to admit that you have a problem. Congrats!

I'm wrong because I as a management poster acutally took the position of explaining the intent behind this strategy.
that will always make me wrong here on this board.
no congrats needed.
If one reader here learns something from me that keeps them out of hot water then its all worth it.

to me being willing to take an unpopular position for the right reasons is an essential part of being a leader.

 

[UPS Lifer]

The first step in the 12 step program is to admit that you have a problem. Congrats!

OMG - It's two days later and Tie is still riled up! Apparently he does think it is a popularity contest or he wouldn't still be yappin about it!

It is called common sense approach to using leadership skills. For about 95% of the people you treat them as you would want to be treated. Some take longer than others to learn that skill and then some never learn it! If I can continue to reach out to managers and supervisors to understand that it is not us vs. them, we can make UPS a better place. It may take a long time but there will be employees who will benefit by it.

 

[dannyboy]

Tie Tie Tie, where to start.

I'm wrong because I as a management poster acutally took the position of explaining the intent behind this strategy.

Explaining the intent behind the position is one thing, to blindly support it is another.

Several times you have posted your support for this behavior as a means to instill safe work methods in drivers. Something all of us here support is the safety of the workforce.

But it is the misuse of safety and the warning letters that is at issue here. There are better ways to improve safety than cutting down the forest.

But you would have to use imagination and effort on the part of management. Using the warning letter sledge hammer takes neither, and is a classic sign of lazy management.

that will always make me wrong here on this board.

What makes you wrong is the blind support of a system that is designed not to succeed.

no congrats needed.

Oh MY God, You think you are the only one that posts what is on their mind, regardless of popularity?

If one reader here learns something from me that keeps them out of hot water then its all worth it.

And what are they going to learn, that if management wants to issue warning letters, no one out there is perfect enough not to get one? That is an established fact. We already know that. And we know that the push pull method is the best practice.

But to issue warning letters for someone pulling out without both hands on the wheel is a bit much?

to me being willing to take an unpopular position for the right reasons is an essential part of being a leader

Nope, its not. A position on safety is a leadership quality. To bonk people over the head with warning letters is not a sign of a great leader, instead it is a sign of a manager that really does not want to spend the time to do it right, so the take the WL short cut to "show" upper management active involvement in the safety picture of their center.

And that is all this is. A paper trail that was/is created to show that you as a manager "took and active roll" in the safety picture of your center. Not that you improved anything, but that you handed out warning letters like napkins at a BBQ.

Really creative.

Something UPS lost a long time ago.

d

 

[tieguy]

Tie Tie Tie, where to start.



Nope, its not. A position on safety is a leadership quality. To bonk people over the head with warning letters is not a sign of a great leader, instead it is a sign of a manager that really does not want to spend the time to do it right, so the take the WL short cut to "show" upper management active involvement in the safety picture of their center.

And that is all this is. A paper trail that was/is created to show that you as a manager "took and active roll" in the safety picture of your center. Not that you improved anything, but that you handed out warning letters like napkins at a BBQ.

Really creative.

Something UPS lost a long time ago.

d

Danny your posts just proves my point. While you can be objective you too got caught up in the assumptions.

I'm okay with that. I understand its a hazard with message boards.

My hope again is that there are a few readers and posters out there that don't make these assumptions and learn from me.

the private messages I get tell me that i'm on the right track. My goal is realistic.

To the rest of you I'm fine with being wrong in your eyes and I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Re-Raise]

the private messages I get tell me that i'm on the right track.

Is this another way to say the voices in my head?

Come on man seriously, if everyone disagrees with you it could be that you are wrong.

It isn't because every other poster on the thread is an idiot as you like to think.

I have agreed with every post on this topic except for the ones you have made.

I think dannyboy's post pretty well summed up 300 + posts on this and you still don't get it.

 

[tieguy]

Is this another way to say the voices in my head?

Come on man seriously, if everyone disagrees with you it could be that you are wrong.

It isn't because every other poster on the thread is an idiot as you like to think.

I have agreed with every post on this topic except for the ones you have made.

I think dannyboy's post pretty well summed up 300 + posts on this and you still don't get it.

your post represents the problem here.

Its not about me getting it or not getting it.

I'm explaining the companies focus on preventing accidents and injuries

whether I get it or not will not change anything the company does.

whether you get it or not may prevent you some heartache somewhere down the road.

 

[UPS Lifer]

The company's focus is not the issue .... It is the way it is being disseminated through the management teams. Post 316 from dannyboy really "hammers" the point home well.