dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
You don't?Red I am wrong.
If I wanted popularity i would simply tell everyone what a great guy I am.
Cherry picking for easy warning letters...
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dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
Bravo to you Lifer.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Red I am wrong.
If I wanted popularity i would simply tell everyone what a great guy I am.
That post would have to be immediately moved to the "Lighten UPS" forum.
satellitedriver
Moderator
I truly doubt that our shared attrition rate is "unusual" for any driver that has been in one center for over 20yrs.
As usual, DS and I are posting objective, provable facts.
Wow!
He is in Canada and I am in Texas.
Yet, we share almost the same attrition rate.
I wonder how that happened?
Granted,
I only have my direct knowledge and limited experience of 23yrs.
Since the M.O. of UPS is one size fits all, I thought that the attrition rate applied throughout "the culture".
If I am mistaken, please provide me with statisics that prove I am incorrect.
tieguy
Banned
The company's focus is not the issue .... It is the way it is being disseminated through the management teams. Post 316 from dannyboy really "hammers"
I don't disagree with the point about dissemination. I am however partial to post 300 myself.
Above my very first post on this thread. Since Danny didnt read it the first time maybe he'll find time to read it this time.
tieguy
Banned
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Tie
You and I both have the same goal in mind, the safety of the workforce. It is also that goal that is the vision of the company.
That is good.
The problem is the pathway taken to get to the goal.
The pathway supposedly taken by the company and pushed by management is to force at all costs, with ball bats if management wants, to beat the drivers into submission.
I would suggest that there are better ways that do not damage the long term game plan of the company.
Remember, it was the company that said that the safety committee's were never to be used for disciplinary actions against the employees. It seems that not only did they forget that, but they lied as well?
It is a very short sighted management team that uses a bat when there are better, less damaging methods available. Damage that will come back to bite long term.
One last example.
We had a Mechanic many years ago that had a saying. If you cant fix it with a screwdriver or a hammer, it needs replaced. While there was some truth to that method years ago, it is pretty much worthless on todays vehicles. The same holds true with employees.
d
You and I both have the same goal in mind, the safety of the workforce. It is also that goal that is the vision of the company.
That is good.
The problem is the pathway taken to get to the goal.
The pathway supposedly taken by the company and pushed by management is to force at all costs, with ball bats if management wants, to beat the drivers into submission.
I would suggest that there are better ways that do not damage the long term game plan of the company.
Remember, it was the company that said that the safety committee's were never to be used for disciplinary actions against the employees. It seems that not only did they forget that, but they lied as well?
It is a very short sighted management team that uses a bat when there are better, less damaging methods available. Damage that will come back to bite long term.
One last example.
We had a Mechanic many years ago that had a saying. If you cant fix it with a screwdriver or a hammer, it needs replaced. While there was some truth to that method years ago, it is pretty much worthless on todays vehicles. The same holds true with employees.
d
tieguy
Banned
Agreed. the problem is we're up to 22 pages on this thread and we have yet to suggest a better way.
plenty of snipers here firing their shots.
a few mystics who claim they had the ability to somehow motivate people to walk on water.
but nothing concrete yet.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
What, you want me to do your job????? Next, you want me to chew your food too, because you are too lazy or boneheaded to see the forest for the trees?
Put me on the staff, pay me, and we will get the results. Until then, sorry, I got money I need to make.
The current UPS strategy is flawed in several aspects. It reminds me of a worker who is frustrated by his job, so he takes it out on everything around him, regardless of the stupidity of the lashing out. The driver workforce sees this as a retribution of managers losing their jobs instead of management trying to get behavior change.
Do you not see that in all the 300 posts on the subject? Its not about safety, its about payback. That is how it is viewed by many.
You are the one that has missed the boat.
I do applaud your concern for keeping drivers out of harms way, that is very noble of you.
Let me suggest this. You (UPS upper management) spend more time developing "green technologies" to placate the tree huggers and earthers than you do to develop a plan to modify behavior. I guess it boils down to what ever you(upper UPS management) think is the most important.
Until then, by all means, continue to use the ball bat when a carrot would have been more than ample to achieve the desired results. There is a time and a place for the bat, but to use/abuse it as it is now being done, defeats the desired goal.
BTW, the damage caused to the safety committee concept is forever. Even staunch supporters like myself are now more than ever aware of being used and lied to.
Its your UPS. The rest just work there.
d
Put me on the staff, pay me, and we will get the results. Until then, sorry, I got money I need to make.
The current UPS strategy is flawed in several aspects. It reminds me of a worker who is frustrated by his job, so he takes it out on everything around him, regardless of the stupidity of the lashing out. The driver workforce sees this as a retribution of managers losing their jobs instead of management trying to get behavior change.
Do you not see that in all the 300 posts on the subject? Its not about safety, its about payback. That is how it is viewed by many.
You are the one that has missed the boat.
I do applaud your concern for keeping drivers out of harms way, that is very noble of you.
Let me suggest this. You (UPS upper management) spend more time developing "green technologies" to placate the tree huggers and earthers than you do to develop a plan to modify behavior. I guess it boils down to what ever you(upper UPS management) think is the most important.
Until then, by all means, continue to use the ball bat when a carrot would have been more than ample to achieve the desired results. There is a time and a place for the bat, but to use/abuse it as it is now being done, defeats the desired goal.
BTW, the damage caused to the safety committee concept is forever. Even staunch supporters like myself are now more than ever aware of being used and lied to.
Its your UPS. The rest just work there.
d
"Put me on the staff, pay me, and we will get the results."
Spoken like a guy that couldn't pass the part time supervisor test. I finally figured this DannyBoy out. He is one of those guys that tried to get into management and couldn't pass the test. Now he resents all the kids that he sees getting promoted around him. Eventually he will have enough time to act like he knows what he is talking about, but really he will never have a clue.
Unionheads are bad enough but Unionheads who wanted to be managment are worse. You will find that most of the Union workers that give management a hard time are jealous of management.
My advice to you DannyBoy is to work safe, work as instructed, and if you get another crack at the part time supervisor test, be consistent with your answers......
Spoken like a guy that couldn't pass the part time supervisor test. I finally figured this DannyBoy out. He is one of those guys that tried to get into management and couldn't pass the test. Now he resents all the kids that he sees getting promoted around him. Eventually he will have enough time to act like he knows what he is talking about, but really he will never have a clue.
Unionheads are bad enough but Unionheads who wanted to be managment are worse. You will find that most of the Union workers that give management a hard time are jealous of management.
My advice to you DannyBoy is to work safe, work as instructed, and if you get another crack at the part time supervisor test, be consistent with your answers......
tieguy
Banned
No I don't need you to do my job. I need you to do your old job as a steward and tell them to follow the methods so they don't get theirselves in trouble.
tieguy
Banned
I still have faith in Danny.
tieguy
Banned
You don't?
Bravo to you Lifer.
Dilli i'm good. Keep giving it to lifer.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
Yeah - I have to agree with dannyboy in post 329. You see shots fired and mystics but you can't get past the hammer. Correct me if I am wrong.... (I am sure you will) but your message out there is "Beware - get in line with the program because the hammer is here and you don't want to get hit by it so buckle down." What kind of message is that from a manager?
You create the policy in your center. .... and if you don't - you don't belong there!
What the heck to you guys have a safety committee for? If it is just a rubber stamp than you are on the wrong track. The safety committee should be helping to define the activities to keep the awareness up.
Each operation may need a slightly different process because of the type and frequency of injuries or accidents in that area. One size does NOT fit all.
You need to come up with the plan that will change behavior in a positive and supportive way. You need to get your drivers or employees involved in the process so that they OWN it. Once it becomes THEIR plan than behavior will change. You will need to start the process but once they own it, watch out, you will have to get out of the way.... Can you handle that???? Most managers can't, because they feel threatened. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that a manager who has been around almost 30 years can be successful at this.
I observed an operation who OWNED safety. How did I know that they OWNED it? They were observing each other and myself and other visitors and reminding us when they observed safety infractions. I was not in their operation to observe their safety. So - being told by a non-management person that I was doing something unsafe was very embarrassing and enlightening at the same time.
How do you accomplish this? You provide an atmosphere that lets the employees know they are part of the team - part of the solution - and it has to be REAL. If it is real - they will own it.
Now - go out and earn your salary and start implementing activities - strategies - and solutions that are employee based ...not management based.
tieguy
Banned
You don't?
I'm always grateful when you share your wisdom with me.
Can you tell me some more stories on how you changed divison managers management styles while you fire your bullets at me?
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
What are you smoking ? .... It must really be the good stuff. Let me know where I could get some. Maybe if Dill and I smoke the same thing, We might be able to figure out how you interpret the written word!
Oh! The comment about being willing to go out on a limb and say that a manager who has been around for almost 30 years should be successful was not meant to be a snide remark but maybe I need to re-think that ???
tieguy
Banned
Ahh and now you're crying out to dilli to save you?
Its real simple lifer. You've been punked.
You came on this thread telling us how you were such a visionary manager.
You got a few people to actually believe you.
I still remember a different lifer one that sent me a PM When you first got here trying to organize the management posters here with you calling the shots.
So I tested you. And it did not take much for me to prove that you are
just as big an A-hole as I am.
Whoa Nelly!, a A-hole fight. Odds anyone?
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
There was this blind guy walks into a bar. After being served, he asks if they want to hear a blond joke.
There was a deep voice that came from his right, said "whoa there. Are you sure you want to tell a blond joke here? You ought to know that
1. The bartender is a blond girl with a baseball bat
2. The bouncer is a blond girl.
3. I'm a 6-foot tall, 175-pound blond woman with a black belt in karate.
4. The woman sitting next to me is blond and a professional weightlifter and UPS driver
5. The lady to your right is blond, a cop and ex Marine.
So now, think about it seriously, Mister. Do you still wanna tell that joke?
The blind guy thinks for a second, shakes his head, and mutters, 'No...not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times.'
Tie, its you that does not get what we have explained. And we have tried more than 5 times.
UPS, by its short sightedness, has sent the safety process to hell. There is no way you will ever convince me or any other ups hourly that we have a safety process that we have input into. You, and your fellow blond management, have taken safety away from being as Lifer stated, something that we own to something that only you own, and you will force feed at your leisure.
Never again will there be a safety team at our building that had hourly participation at its core. The short sighted means used has shown that all the hype and BS was just that, hype and BS. Nothing more than to keep OSHA happy and off your backs. It makes for good PR, nothing more.
When humans believe they are a part of something, something where they can affect change, they will become involved, and the whole process will be the better for it.
But because of the short sightedness of management with socks as your fearless leader, you have shown that you do not value any input from the hourly, and since you are now using the hammer that you promised you would not use, not only was it all BS from the start, but you have shown yourselves to be liars as well. So we should trust YOU to tell us what we really need to do? And by that you, I mean all ups management that does not have a clue.
You keep stating that you want the stewards to get involved with the process as a way of getting the drivers to follow methods. How stupid. As a steward, the grievance process is there to not assist management, but to thwart their efforts at discipline. So not only do you put the driver in a defensive position, you put the steward in a defensive one as well.
So you have taken an ally in safety and forced a confrontation. Which you will lose.
And this teaches the driver what, exactly? That you have the power to issue reams of meaningless warning letters? I thought that the focus was on safety. But your methods puts the focus on negating your actions instead.
What a total waste of manpower.........
d
There was a deep voice that came from his right, said "whoa there. Are you sure you want to tell a blond joke here? You ought to know that
1. The bartender is a blond girl with a baseball bat
2. The bouncer is a blond girl.
3. I'm a 6-foot tall, 175-pound blond woman with a black belt in karate.
4. The woman sitting next to me is blond and a professional weightlifter and UPS driver
5. The lady to your right is blond, a cop and ex Marine.
So now, think about it seriously, Mister. Do you still wanna tell that joke?
The blind guy thinks for a second, shakes his head, and mutters, 'No...not if I'm gonna have to explain it five times.'
Tie, its you that does not get what we have explained. And we have tried more than 5 times.
UPS, by its short sightedness, has sent the safety process to hell. There is no way you will ever convince me or any other ups hourly that we have a safety process that we have input into. You, and your fellow blond management, have taken safety away from being as Lifer stated, something that we own to something that only you own, and you will force feed at your leisure.
Never again will there be a safety team at our building that had hourly participation at its core. The short sighted means used has shown that all the hype and BS was just that, hype and BS. Nothing more than to keep OSHA happy and off your backs. It makes for good PR, nothing more.
When humans believe they are a part of something, something where they can affect change, they will become involved, and the whole process will be the better for it.
But because of the short sightedness of management with socks as your fearless leader, you have shown that you do not value any input from the hourly, and since you are now using the hammer that you promised you would not use, not only was it all BS from the start, but you have shown yourselves to be liars as well. So we should trust YOU to tell us what we really need to do? And by that you, I mean all ups management that does not have a clue.
You keep stating that you want the stewards to get involved with the process as a way of getting the drivers to follow methods. How stupid. As a steward, the grievance process is there to not assist management, but to thwart their efforts at discipline. So not only do you put the driver in a defensive position, you put the steward in a defensive one as well.
So you have taken an ally in safety and forced a confrontation. Which you will lose.
And this teaches the driver what, exactly? That you have the power to issue reams of meaningless warning letters? I thought that the focus was on safety. But your methods puts the focus on negating your actions instead.
What a total waste of manpower.........
d
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