Contract proposals for 2018

[brownIEman]

The rules are created by a group of people that haven't delivered a route since they used carbon copy pads...if they even delivered at all. I work hard everyday and I'm paid over. When I'm questioned about my performance, I usually just work the next day. My paid over skyrockets even further.

I saw this all the time. I get the frustration, I really do. However, being angry because you are questioned about your performance does not justify dragging your feet and sabotaging your day. You feel justified in retaliating like this, but I am sure you would be among the first to decry management retaliation.
Can't count the number of times I've seen drivers retaliate like this for perceived slights, and then some twit in management doing some stupid thing with dispatch to retaliate back at the drivers. They both think it is just and deserved, and are smug about it. And round and round it goes...

 

[wide load]

I saw this all the time. I get the frustration, I really do. However, being angry because you are questioned about your performance does not justify dragging your feet and sabotaging your day. You feel justified in retaliating like this, but I am sure you would be among the first to decry management retaliation.
Can't count the number of times I've seen drivers retaliate like this for perceived slights, and then some twit in management doing some stupid thing with dispatch to retaliate back at the drivers. They both think it is just and deserved, and are smug about it. And round and round it goes...

You miss understand my words. I work hard everyday and I'm still paid over. Just like ever mall is. When I'm questioned, knowing there is an issue with time studies, I then just work. We are not required to work hard for you. Only a fair day. Serious question for you.
Why aren't weights calculated into UPS's equations for work? 11 letters and 11 69lb boxes equates to the same time.

 

[Bubblehead]

I saw this all the time. I get the frustration, I really do. However, being angry because you are questioned about your performance does not justify dragging your feet and sabotaging your day. You feel justified in retaliating like this, but I am sure you would be among the first to decry management retaliation.
Can't count the number of times I've seen drivers retaliate like this for perceived slights, and then some twit in management doing some stupid thing with dispatch to retaliate back at the drivers. They both think it is just and deserved, and are smug about it. And round and round it goes...

.....and come payday, who wins the pissing contest?

 

[brownIEman]

You miss understand my words. I work hard everyday and I'm still paid over. Just like ever mall is. When I'm questioned, knowing there is an issue with time studies, I then just work. We are not required to work hard for you. Only a fair day. Serious question for you.
Why aren't weights calculated into UPS's equations for work? 11 letters and 11 69lb boxes equates to the same time.

I don't believe I misunderstood you at all. You said when they question your performance, your over the next day explodes. Everyone here who has worked as a driver or worked with drivers for any amount of time knows exactly what that means. UPSers are some of the hardest working people in any industry. In this job, if you are not working hard, you are not giving a fair day. And no, I am not saying running everywhere and killing yourself, that is not only stupid, it usually results in mistakes and can often lead to worse performance. But just kicking back and shuffling everywhere, staring at the DIAD for 15 seconds or more after every stop looking at the next set of stops while sipping a soda, is not working hard, and is not a fair day.

The world is not perfect. If it is not coded as a special handling package (over 70) then yes, each piece is given an average allowance based on prior studies. So if you are delivering a tote full of letters you are going to crush the allowance. If you are delivering fifty 69 pound boxes then the allowance is going to crush you. If you have a fair mix of packages, you should come somewhere around scratch (on the piece allowance anyway. In my experience the per piece allowance was one of the easier ones to hit.)
The whole idea of measurement is not to get a perfect representation of the world. It is to get SOME level of measuring. I get that you and the union would prefer management just let everyone pick whatever work they want to do and then never, ever question anyone's performance for any reason. Even if they ran 35 stops in 7 hours one day and the same 35 stops and same piece count in 11.5 hours the next.
The problem is that in centers where there has been no management and no one pushing for extended periods of time, SPORH inevitably drops. That scenario translated company wide would result in UPS losing money. And I don't think anyone reading this thread wants the company to come into the up coming negotiations with 2 or 3 losing quarters under its belt.

 

[brownIEman]

.....and come payday, who wins the pissing contest?

neither. and both.

Come payday, they both get payed and make a good living, so they both win.

Come payday they are both the same miserable SOBs they were when they came in each day pissing at each other. So they both lose.

I just thought it was all stupid and refused to play.

 

[wide load]

I don't believe I misunderstood you at all. You said when they question your performance, your over the next day explodes. Everyone here who has worked as a driver or worked with drivers for any amount of time knows exactly what that means.

The world is not perfect. If it is not coded as a special handling package (over 70) then yes, each piece is given an average allowance based on prior studies. So if you are delivering a box of letters you are going to crush the allowance. If you are delivering fifty 69 pound boxes then the allowance is going to crush you. If you have a fair mix of packages, you should come somewhere around scratch (on the piece allowance anyway. In my experience the per piece allowance was one of the easier ones to hit.)
The whole idea of measurement is not to get a perfect representation of the world. It is to get SOME level of measuring. I get that you and the union would prefer management just let everyone pick whatever work they want to do and then never, ever question anyone's performance for any reason. Even if they ran 35 stops in 7 hours one day and the same 35 stops and same piece count in 11.5 hours the next.
The problem is that in centers where there has been no management and no one pushing for extended periods of time, SPORH inevitably drops. That scenario translated company wide would result in UPS losing money. And I don't think anyone reading this thread wants the company to come into the up coming negotiations with 2 or 3 losing quarters under its belt.

The only mathematical equation to work is WORK=FORCE X DISTANCE. Why doesn't UPS use this? You say "in a perfect world"? This is a way more accurate representation. UPS uses pieces, stops and a maximum distance. Scientists they are not. They chose to have a chased fictional number. That's why we could give an friend.

 

[Bubblehead]

neither. and both.

Come payday, they both get payed and make a good living, so they both win.

Come payday they are both the same miserable SOBs they were when they came in each day pissing at each other. So they both lose.

I just thought it was all stupid and refused to play.

Nope, I make more money and you are paid the same salary, maybe even less in bonuses.

When will these guys realize that there is no longer anything that they can take from me, besides time, which I am compensated for by the hour?

When a driver divorces themselves from the numbers, and accepts that they can't expect a "regular" clock out time, they are liberated from what little hold you ever had on them.

Factor in the 9.5 opt-in list and I got you right where I want you.
It's a beautiful and lucrative thing.

 

[brownIEman]

The only mathematical equation to work is WORK=FORCE X DISTANCE. Why doesn't UPS use this? You say "in a perfect world"? This is a way more accurate representation. UPS uses pieces, stops and a maximum distance. Scientists they are not. They chose to have a chased fictional number. That's why we could give an friend.

And if you don't work in a bonus center there is absolutely no reason you SHOULD give an friend. The measurement are for UPS management as one (and only one) planning tool.
But get off your offended high horse if you go out one day with 220 stops averaging about 8lbs and run 80 stops in 50 miles (there's your ForceXDistance, I added the stops) and come back in 8 hours and the next day you have the exact same work calculation and you bring it in after 10 hours, and a management person has the gall to ask why?

 

[Bubblehead]

And if you don't work in a bonus center there is absolutely no reason you SHOULD give an friend. The measurement are for UPS management as one (and only one) planning tool.
But get off your offended high horse if you go out one day with 220 stops averaging about 8lbs and run 80 stops in 50 miles (there's your ForceXDistance, I added the stops) and come back in 8 hours and the next day you have the exact same work calculation and you bring it in after 10 hours, and a management person has the gall to ask why?

The equation is never that simple.
Way more variables than an Excel spreadsheet can illustrate.

 

[brownIEman]

Nope, I make more money and you are paid the same salary, maybe even less in bonuses.

When will these guys realize that there is no longer anything that they can take from me, besides time, which I am compensated for by the hour?

When a driver divorces themselves from the numbers, and accept that they can't expect a "regular" clock out time, they are liberated from what little hold you ever had on them.

Factor in the 9.5 opt-in list and I got you right where I want you.
It's a beautiful and lucrative thing.

And yet you are still the same miserable SOB that is counting up score, addicted to the us vs them, and us=good, them=bad, telling yourself things like "I got them right where I want them". I heard management say that same kind of crap when they would make sure a foot dragger had no shot at making his son's baseball game, or worse, when they finally caught him doing something he should not have been doing in the first place and firing the guy. That crap is all moronic and I refuse to play. You like the game and will continue to play and make good money, if that works for you, go to it.

 

[brownIEman]

The equation is never that simple.
Way more variables than an Excel spreadsheet can illustrate.

Never said it was that simple. But when there are huge swings in performance over very similar work loads, it is naive in the extreme to expect no one to question why. I am not saying there is not a good explanation, in most cases there is. But to get all offended when asked and retaliate with slower work, is morally wrong no matter how mad you are. Mad does not justify anything in my mind. It does not justify harassing or firing drivers, or working slower. Most people these days seems to believe it is a great justification for retaliation.

 

[wide load]

And if you don't work in a bonus center there is absolutely no reason you SHOULD give an friend. The measurement are for UPS management as one (and only one) planning tool.
But get off your offended high horse if you go out one day with 220 stops averaging about 8lbs and run 80 stops in 50 miles (there's your ForceXDistance, I added the stops) and come back in 8 hours and the next day you have the exact same work calculation and you bring it in after 10 hours, and a management person has the gall to ask why?

Averages are a flawed system.

Day 1
I walk a 1lb envelope 10 feet.
I walk a 50lb box 20 feet.

Day 2
I walk a 1lb envelope 20 feet.
I walk a 50lb box 10 feet.

Both days average are exactly the same for stops, pieces and distance. In the world of UPS, it's the same. Which has a greater energy expenditure due to WORK?
If you think it's the same, you would be wrong.
(Hint)
Day 1 = 1010 joules (energy).
Day 2 = 520 joules (energy).
Why?

 

[Bubblehead]

And yet you are still the same miserable SOB that is counting up score, addicted to the us vs them, and us=good, them=bad, telling yourself things like "I got them right where I want them". I heard management say that same kind of crap when they would make sure a foot dragger had no shot at making his son's baseball game, or worse, when they finally caught him doing something he should not have been doing in the first place and firing the guy. That crap is all moronic and I refuse to play. You like the game and will continue to play and make good money, if that works for you, go to it.

Nope, not miserable at all.
I was liberated long ago and will realize 31 years with the Company on Friday.

Again, there is nothing you can take from me.
Don't forget it.

 

[Bubblehead]

Averages are a flawed system.

Day 1
I walk a 1lb envelope 10 feet.
I walk a 50lb box 20 feet.

Day 2
I walk a 1lb envelope 20 feet.
I walk a 50lb box 10 feet.

Both days average are exactly the same for stops, pieces and distance. In the world of UPS, it's the same. Which has a greater energy expenditure due to WORK?
If you think it's the same, you would be wrong.
(Hint)
Day 1 = 1010 joules (energy).
Day 2 = 520 joules (energy).
Why?

Don't forget, UPS uses a term called dimensional weight for billing purposes, acknowledging that there is no "average package".

All of those variables are readily available to the Company when determining allowances, yet they choose to stick with averages?

Any doubt why that is?

 

[brownIEman]

Averages are a flawed system.

Day 1
I walk a 1lb envelope 10 feet.
I walk a 50lb box 20 feet.

Day 2
I walk a 1lb envelope 20 feet.
I walk a 50lb box 10 feet.

Both days average are exactly the same for stops, pieces and distance. In the world of UPS, it's the same. Which has a greater energy expenditure due to WORK?
If you think it's the same, you would be wrong.
(Hint)
Day 1 = 1010 joules (energy).
Day 2 = 520 joules (energy).
Why?

Put the 50lb box on a hand cart, let it do most of the work. I'll give you an allowance for getting the hand cart out, and putting it back. You're welcome.

 

[wide load]

Don't forget, UPS uses a term called dimensional weight for billing purposes, acknowledging that there is no "average package".

All of those variables are readily available to the Company when determining allowances, yet they choose to stick with averages?

Any doubt why that is?

Cuz they don't give an friend about us only $? Lol

 

[brownIEman]

Nope, not miserable at all.
I was liberated long ago and will realize 31 years with the Company on Friday.

Again, there is nothing you can take from me.
Don't forget it.

Sorry, my bad. I was unclear. By miserable SOB I did not mean you are personally miserable in your life, I meant miserable as in its a miserable experience for other people to be around your negativity and smug us vs themness.

I am glad there is nothing I can take from you. As I said, I find the game stupid and refuse to play, so there is absolutely nothing I would take from you even if I could. Enjoy.

 

[wide load]

Put the 50lb box on a hand cart, let it do most of the work. I'll give you an allowance for getting the hand cart out, and putting it back. You're welcome.

I use one almost every stop. Thanks in advance.

 

[brownIEman]

Don't forget, UPS uses a term called dimensional weight for billing purposes, acknowledging that there is no "average package".

All of those variables are readily available to the Company when determining allowances, yet they choose to stick with averages?

Any doubt why that is?

Because you are incorrect in saying all of those variables are readily available. The data flow from the customers is not that good yet.

 

[Bubblehead]

Put the 50lb box on a hand cart, let it do most of the work. I'll give you an allowance for getting the hand cart out, and putting it back. You're welcome.

Was it raining that day?
Did he get stopped by 30% red lights?
Did that 50lb box have to be carried around to the back door.....or up 3 flights of stairs today, instead of a quick front porch DR?

Should night keep going?