Corporate Hypocrisy

[Anonymous 10]

407

The way we got rid of it here was to have a meeting. It was well advertised as to the purpose. UPS tried their dead level best to do end runs around what was going on, but the meeting still took place.

Best I can remember, of the people attending, after all comments were heard, better than 80% were against the bonus system the way it had become. Where as almost 100% were for it the way it was first placed in service.

d

D
We never had a meeting but there was a buzz in the air for a couple of months drivers coming up to the stewards and asking what they had to do. When we started the three week process the first week we had 11 grievances with the goal being 41 over the next two weeks we got 8 more. We took a pool before we started it and we had about 55 drivers and then they lost there stones.

 

[DS]

This is a great thread.Hoax,post a link @ upsers.com

If indeed this thread was started by a center manager,I feel its a boon the the browncafe .
We finally have someone,albeit anonymously,that has the balls to speak his mind,
if ups could figure out who he is,he'd be stugged faster than you can say insignificant owner..

 

[Coldworld]

How does something like this even get through the union since they dont recognize the numbers. Getting rid of the bonus system doesnt get rid of the allowance and the harassment...maybe danny can chime in on this.

 

[Coldworld]

Hoax, good words but very hard to get a grasp around when management is riding with you, and not out there to try to help you, or the load/route..but to just harass, and try to stress out people who are just trying to get through the day. Its one thing to cut out routes and tell drivers that ups has to do this and try to do your best..its a whole other story to load everyone up and then change their allowances and now 1 and a half routes should take less time than one route did 2 weeks ago...talk about a total integrity issue...and then on top of it ojs ride you and have them nitpick 5 minutes worth of stuff that wasnt "perfect", but have no idea why the route was 1.5 hours over, but still blame the driver. P-man says that it is sometimes just the route setup and not the driver and not to sweat it....I know of NO mgt who doesnt think its not the driver. Most of the management in ups brown cafe land seem to be understanding of the issues associated with numbers but in the real ups world its a whole other story...sorry for rant..hope Im not the only one who feels this way...by the way work safe and dont get a heart attack!!

 

[Coldworld]

P-man...what does ups have to gain by making everyone who works for this company miserable. The excessive rides, stupid warning letters like sober brought up, etc, etc. Has it ever been brought up about how work related stress affects health , especially behind the wheel. Why hasnt there been an ERI survey the last couple of years????How is it cost effective to spy on drivers who are just trying to go out there and get the job done, most of them safely and professionally. Has the culture of this company reached a point where it either needs to change or things are just going to implode? This whole attitude that every teamster wants to take down the company, please help everyone understand the company point of view!!! I know business isnt always nice, but you get to a point and have to say enough is enough.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-man...what does ups have to gain by making everyone who works for this company miserable. The excessive rides, stupid warning letters like sober brought up, etc, etc. Has it ever been brought up about how work related stress affects health , especially behind the wheel. Why hasnt there been an ERI survey the last couple of years????How is it cost effective to spy on drivers who are just trying to go out there and get the job done, most of them safely and professionally. Has the culture of this company reached a point where it either needs to change or things are just going to implode? This whole attitude that every teamster wants to take down the company, please help everyone understand the company point of view!!! I know business isnt always nice, but you get to a point and have to say enough is enough.

Cold,

First, I do agree that there are some stupid things done by stupid managment people. Of course, many of them are posted here and I have not supported those examples.

However, I do NOT think this is a conspiracy as others have said. I have been around too long and talk to too many people (management and hourly) to accept that.

Jim Casey spoke often about attention to details. He also spoke about constructive dissatisfaction. Today, we have technology that points out more of these things than before. For the most part, people use this technology appropriately and we have seen that benefit.

Sometimes, management does stupid things. That was the case over 30 years ago when I first went into management too. Back then we had the same issues. Back then I would argue we were even harsher than today. We only looked at performance and SPORH and Ov/Un were king.

My point is that I don't see this as a corporate directive. I don't see every driver wanting to take down the company. I work with lots and lots of drivers so this is not an undeducated opinion.

Of course, that is irrevelant if someone is treating you poorly. If that's the case, all I can say is that I'm sorry.

P-Man

 

[SignificantOwner]

First, I do agree that there are some stupid things done by stupid managment people. Of course, many of them are posted here and I have not supported those examples.

You know, that's an easy thing to say, but the "stupidity" is becoming the new culture cultivated by corporate. They're either causing it or allowing it to continue. They're definitely not fixing it.

However, I do NOT think this is a conspiracy as others have said. I have been around too long and talk to too many people (management and hourly) to accept that.

I never said CONSPIRACY, that's your word. I said HYPOCRISY. Corp folks aren't held to as high of a standard as district operations folks. If you don't get a report fixed by the end of the day you put your stuff away and go home anyway. We stay until every last package is delivered no matter what (which can get pretty late because of stupid SPC edicts). Why not tell JF that he can't go home until his report is accurate?

Jim Casey spoke often about attention to details. He also spoke about constructive dissatisfaction. Today, we have technology that points out more of these things than before. For the most part, people use this technology appropriately and we have seen that benefit.

I don't think you would agree with that last statement if you were in my seat.

Sometimes, management does stupid things. That was the case over 30 years ago when I first went into management too. Back then we had the same issues. Back then I would argue we were even harsher than today. We only looked at performance and SPORH and Ov/Un were king.

Ov/Un is king now. We kept performance as king and added a bunch of co-kings, each with their own report that is slightly wrong. We also added about 80 emails a day.

My point is that I don't see this as a corporate directive. I don't see every driver wanting to take down the company. I work with lots and lots of drivers so this is not an undeducated opinion.

Working with drivers and direct responsibility for their results are very different things. Anyone ever get terminated or demoted for sending out a bad query? They have for missing an air bag. It's only an air bag, one out of hundreds. Everyone should be ok with it since it's a small number compared to the total. Makes sense to me since this is the logic used in not fixing the pickup compliance report.

Of course, that is irrevelant if someone is treating you poorly. If that's the case, all I can say is that I'm sorry.

What are you doing to change it?

P-Man[/QUOTE]

 

[Bubblehead]

You know, that's an easy thing to say, but the "stupidity" is becoming the new culture cultivated by corporate. They're either causing it or allowing it to continue. They're definitely not fixing it.


I never said CONSPIRACY, that's your word. I said HYPOCRISY. Corp folks aren't held to as high of a standard as district operations folks. If you don't get a report fixed by the end of the day you put your stuff away and go home anyway. We stay until every last package is delivered no matter what (which can get pretty late because of stupid SPC edicts). Why not tell JF that he can't go home until his report is accurate?


I don't think you would agree with that last statement if you were in my seat.


Ov/Un is king now. We kept performance as king and added a bunch of co-kings, each with their own report that is slightly wrong. We also added about 80 emails a day.


Working with drivers and direct responsibility for their results are very different things. Anyone ever get terminated or demoted for sending out a bad query? They have for missing an air bag. It's only an air bag, one out of hundreds. Everyone should be ok with it since it's a small number compared to the total. Makes sense to me since this is the logic used in not fixing the pickup compliance report.



What are you doing to change it?

P-Man

[/QUOTE]

He's doing nothing!
That's because all is well from behind his rose colored, report driven, cyber matrix, fantasy world.
He is the managerial "Spin Doctor" for the Brown Cafe.
He'll tell you how in touch he is.
People in his position are told what they want to hear.
This thread was started and propagated by a member of management.
A front line "manager", or should I say facilator?
Someone who is operating in the real world.
It's been a breath of fresh air.
Pull back the wool people, see what's right in front of your eyes.

 

[pretzel_man]

You know, that's an easy thing to say, but the "stupidity" is becoming the new culture cultivated by corporate. They're either causing it or allowing it to continue. They're definitely not fixing it.


I never said CONSPIRACY, that's your word. I said HYPOCRISY. Corp folks aren't held to as high of a standard as district operations folks. If you don't get a report fixed by the end of the day you put your stuff away and go home anyway. We stay until every last package is delivered no matter what (which can get pretty late because of stupid SPC edicts). Why not tell JF that he can't go home until his report is accurate?


I don't think you would agree with that last statement if you were in my seat.


Ov/Un is king now. We kept performance as king and added a bunch of co-kings, each with their own report that is slightly wrong. We also added about 80 emails a day.


Working with drivers and direct responsibility for their results are very different things. Anyone ever get terminated or demoted for sending out a bad query? They have for missing an air bag. It's only an air bag, one out of hundreds. Everyone should be ok with it since it's a small number compared to the total. Makes sense to me since this is the logic used in not fixing the pickup compliance report.



What are you doing to change it?

P-Man

[/QUOTE]


He's doing nothing!
That's because all is well from behind his rose colored, report driven, cyber matrix, fantasy world.
He is the managerial "Spin Doctor" for the Brown Cafe.
He'll tell you how in touch he is.
People in his position are told what they want to hear.
This thread was started and propagated by a member of management.
A front line "manager", or should I say facilator?
Someone who is operating in the real world.
It's been a breath of fresh air.
Pull back the wool people, see what's right in front of your eyes.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm not sure how to respond anymore...

I've explained both sides of the story. I've said that I manage appropriately REGARDLESS of this report. On a QPR, its meaningless and especially with the new QPR system does not affect anyone's raise.

You choose to not care and only pick and choose facts. Its easier to complain. So be it.

Just make pickups within 15 or 30 minutes of pickup time. I've said that that is not efficient, not that its not possible. Operations today are not tougher than they were 30 years ago. Of course there are more reports to manage, but back then we didn't even have the reports. We had to gather the information ourselves and manually complete QPR's and spec sheets.

This conversation has become stale, and I'm not in the greatest mood. So, just do the job. Make the pickups within the window. Why is that so hard?

P-Man

 

[Catatonic]

It is what it is.

Posts and discussions on BC can help individuals gain insight to the problem and how to deal with them.
Bottom line - no one here can do anything about perceived problems.
If you don't want to be in the position of being subjected to others idiocy, go out and start your own business and then you will be subject to only your own idiocy.

 

[tonyexpress]

It is what it is.

Posts and discussions on BC can help individuals gain insight to the problem and how to deal with them.
Bottom line - no one here can do anything about perceived problems.
If you don't want to be in the position of being subjected to others idiocy, go out and start your own business and then you will be subject to only your own idiocy.

Well said modsta Hoax!

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. UPS has its problems just like any other large Corporation and these issues should be discussed and that is what this forum is for...But to bitch, blame, point fingers and insinuate that others here are not fixing a problem is hypocritical in itself!

What are you going to do to fix the problem?

If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit

nuf said

 

[moreluck]

"What are you going to do to fix the problem?"

Put Klein on ignore !!!

 

[soberups]

[/ So, just do the job. Make the pickups within the window. Why is that so hard?

P-Man

In and of itself, its a metric thats not usually going to be that hard to meet.

But the action we take to satisfy this metric....will cause us to fall short in other metrics.

Many of the metrics you are requiring us to comply with are mutually exclusive. 85% pickup compliance = less than 85% on trace. Or, 85% pickup compliance + 85% on trace= insufficent SPORH + excess miles.
Regardless of the equation, you will never be satisfied with the outcome.

You have created a no-win scenario. Any action we take to get off of one report will cause us to appear on a different one. You want us to hit a target, but you keep moving the target and complaining to us when we miss the bullseye.

After a while, we become cynical. We grow weary of the game and see no point in continuing to play. If you are going to bitch at me no matter what I do or no matter how hard I try...why should I give a damn in the first place?

 

[soberups]

If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit

I dont like the fact that you will never be satisfied with my job performance...

I cannot change that fact....

Therefore, I will choose to not give a damn about what you think about my job performance.


God, grant me the serentity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[moreluck]

When I think of the Serenity Prayer, I can't help but picture Frank Costanza lifting his arms to the heavens and screaming, "Serenity Now !"

 

[tieguy]

If indeed this thread was started by a center manager,I feel its a boon the the browncafe .
We finally have someone,albeit anonymously,that has the balls to speak his mind,
if ups could figure out who he is,he'd be stugged faster than you can say insignificant owner..

I think balls muddy perspective. As a manager I learned from the great casey and many other managers to think like an owner of this company.
As such when I have the balls to speak out against the company I'm also speaking out against myself.

Casey also teachs to stay in touch with the vision of those at the grass roots level.
I think I can translate the companys vision to those at the grass roots
and translate the grass roots perspective to corporate and still maintain my integrity
and without having to find the balls to do so.

If you understand both then you can explain the disconnects without fear of retribution.
its all in how you say it.

 

[Bubblehead]

It is what it is.

Posts and discussions on BC can help individuals gain insight to the problem and how to deal with them.
Bottom line - no one here can do anything about perceived problems.
If you don't want to be in the position of being subjected to others idiocy, go out and start your own business and then you will be subject to only your own idiocy.

Well said modsta Hoax!

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. UPS has its problems just like any other large Corporation and these issues should be discussed and that is what this forum is for...But to bitch, blame, point fingers and insinuate that others here are not fixing a problem is hypocritical in itself!

What are you going to do to fix the problem?

If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit

nuf said

I mean...are you serious?
What can a lowly service provider do to change anything?
I may have been over the top last night in a whiskey induced post.
For that I appologize.
The underlying message though I stand by.
Pretzel Man reperesents himself as if he IS in a position to make a difference.
He often concedes a small detail, but in the end always seems to defend the company line.
That's why, to me, it often seems as if he is trying to spin things with the oh so familiar rhetoric.
"It's not a perfect system", "sometimes management does stupid things but", "this isn't a corporate directive", to name a few among a list of acronymes to which I'm not familiar.
I'd love to think front line employees like SignificantOwner, Sober, and myself had an avenue to make a difference.
But in the end we are powerless do anything more than facilatate and execute whatever directives, prudent or ridiculous, that are dreamed up and disseminated through our trickle down management network.
I pop off a little hard here and say what I can't at work.
It may just be the therapy that some of us need to stay grounded in the real world.
Thanks for indulging me.

 

[Bubblehead]

I think balls muddy perspective. As a manager I learned from the great casey and many other managers to think like an owner of this company.
As such when I have the balls to speak out against the company I'm also speaking out against myself.

Casey also teachs to stay in touch with the vision of those at the grass roots level.
I think I can translate the companys vision to those at the grass roots
and translate the grass roots perspective to corporate and still maintain my integrity
and without having to find the balls to do so.

If you understand both then you can explain the disconnects without fear of retribution.
its all in how you say it.

I take from the majority of what you write, that is who you are.
Unfortunately your kind is a dying breed within our company.
The "Great Casey" is dead and unfortunately it would seem most of his ideals are as well.
It would be nice to think that we could somehow return to some of these core values but as I've seen you post, "we sold our soul" when we went public.
It's a shame as the vast majority are just trying to survive rather than excell.

 

[pretzel_man]

In and of itself, its a metric thats not usually going to be that hard to meet.

But the action we take to satisfy this metric....will cause us to fall short in other metrics.

Many of the metrics you are requiring us to comply with are mutually exclusive. 85% pickup compliance = less than 85% on trace. Or, 85% pickup compliance + 85% on trace= insufficent SPORH + excess miles.
Regardless of the equation, you will never be satisfied with the outcome.

You have created a no-win scenario. Any action we take to get off of one report will cause us to appear on a different one. You want us to hit a target, but you keep moving the target and complaining to us when we miss the bullseye.

After a while, we become cynical. We grow weary of the game and see no point in continuing to play. If you are going to bitch at me no matter what I do or no matter how hard I try...why should I give a damn in the first place?

Mutually exlcusive?

Jim Casey's motto was Best Service, Lowest Cost. When I started, the answer to whether service or cost was more important was BOTH must be made.

Of course its not easy. We need cost AND service AND safety AND etc.

The right 85% in trace AND the right 85% pickup comliance AND packages delivered by commit time AND no seat belt violations AND minimized idle time is the job.....

I agree that 100% in trace and 100% pickup compliance and minimized miles is exclusive...

Nothing is new. Now we have tools to better measure what we already promised to do.

P-Man

 

[Catatonic]

I mean...are you serious?
What can a lowly service provider do to change anything?


It may just be the therapy that some of us need to stay grounded in the real world.
Thanks for indulging me.

You can do the same as anybody else on here - nothing.
P-man can offer you insight as to what is being thought before something is implemented but once it is implemented, he is as powerless as a dog walking down the street.
That is the nature of big corporations and management can only find a way to implement programs/initiatives in some way that works.
I coach others around me that there are no perfect or right solutions - only optimal solutions.
I wasn't being flippant when I suggested that the only way to eliminate putting up we idiocy is to start your own company or work for yourself.

And I agree, BC is a good source to come and rant and get some therapy ... so you are welcome.