Does seniority prevail with having to go help people at the end of day?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Brown Biscuit, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    Yes. Just from personal experience and from what I have seen, nobody in my center who has balls has gotten disciplined for not reporting for a “forced” 6th report.
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  2. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    Same here.
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  3. Brown Biscuit

    Brown Biscuit Blind every day

    Thank you. I am slowly learning to play their game. I truly appreciate all of the responses, even roasting me.
  4. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    Just out of curiosity, in your opinions, does your supplements provide the Company the right to schedule you for a 6th day???
  5. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    My suppliment says the work week is either 5 consecutive days or 4 10s..... but from what I understand, there was a dot ruling that says if you are too “fatigued” to work safely, you can call out and explain that you physically and mentally cannot work. I’m too lazy to look for the ruling, but I know there was one. If it ever went to an arbitrator, I’m sure they would agree that 55-60hrs in 5 days would be excessive. Some people have to wake up early to get their kids ready for school or handle responsibilities, so that 14 hour day at ups could result in only 4-5 hours of sleep. Do that for 5 days and it becomes and issue.

    Bubblehead, from what I have seen in every center.... once Saturdays became a things you were either a Mon-fri driver or tue-sat. It’s 100% unreasonable to make somebody work 6 days after working 5 days a week for 11 months.

    Some drivers in my center are divorced fathers who only have their kids on the weekends. How would they be able to change their life on the snap of managments fingers? I also know of a couple drivers who take care of their elderly family members on the weekends, weather it be going grocery shopping for them, or doing maintenance on their house. It’s absolutely unreasonable to tell somebody on Thursday night that you are forced to work a 6 day.
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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  6. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    I asked you about your "6th day" language???
  7. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    I have not seen any 6th language any where in the southern. It’s “extra work” that is to be bid on.

    I spoke with my ba last year as he agreed with me 100%. He said to call in sat, say you are taking your self out of service. If any discipline were to come, grieve the discipline and also file for harassment. Our local is fairly weak, so it was good to hear.
  8. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    No. There is no language that I can think of that supports it but also nothing that forbids it. I tell everyone to cover themselves and call in. No one has been disciplined yet.

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  9. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member

    392.3 Ill or fatigued operator.
    No driver shall operate a commercial motor vehicle, and a motor carrier shall not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle, while the driver's ability or alertness is so impaired, or so likely to become impaired, through fatigue, illness, or any other cause, as to make it unsafe for him/her to begin or continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle. However, in a case of grave emergency where the hazard to occupants of the commercial motor vehicle or other users of the highway would be increased by compliance with this section, the driver may continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle to the nearest place at which that hazard is removed.

    [35 FR 7800, May 21, 1970, as amended at 60 FR 38746, July 28, 1995]

    eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations
  10. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture


    While I too have language describing a "5 consecutive day work week", we also have this language....

    ....what do you think the word "required" is in reference to???
  11. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    Required by the employer.

    I don't believe we have anything like that in our rider. Putting the word "required" in that language seems like a stupid move by the union. Leaving that one word out would have made a huge difference.
  12. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    ....and with that in mind, I have to go to bed, as I have my end of the agreement to uphold.
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  13. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member

    Question 1: What protection is afforded a driver for refusing to violate the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs)?

    Guidance: Section 405 of the Surface Transportation Assistance Act of 1982 (STAA) (49 U.S.C. 31105) states, in part, that no person shall discharge, discipline, or in any manner discriminate against an employee with respect to the employee’s compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment for refusing to operate a vehicle when such operation constitutes a violation of any Federal rule, regulation, standard, or order applicable to Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) safety. In such a case, a driver may submit a signed complaint to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

    OSHA rules in favor of trucker who refused to drive while ill
  14. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member

    Federal regulations (49 C.F.R. 392.3) explicitly protect your right to refuse to drive when you are ill or fatigued. This right of refusal is also protected by 49 U.S.C. §31105(a)(1)(B)(ii)’s assurance that one can refuse based on reasonable apprehension of injury.
  15. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Take all of your personal time before helping anyone else.
  16. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    It's an example of sloppy language, and there are others in our supplement (like the holiday language) that contradicts itself.

    First it says "required", then at the employers "request", all in the same sentence???

    Seems as if the Union feels like if they address it going forward, that it's an admission that it wasn't correct in the past.

    Arrogance, ignorance, or obstinance......???
  17. Gaintain

    Gaintain Member

    Come Monday if you actually file a grievance on them for working you before lower seniority guys...this will show them that you’re serious and they will back off on selecting you. Keep filing everyday it happens until it stops.
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  18. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member

    I would be careful not to tell them ahead of time that you will be fatigued on a different day. Reading over many rulings on the matter myself, I come to the conclusion that it is important that you are honestly fatigued at the time when your shift is about to happen.

    Call In before your shift, not the day before to cover yourself in case you have to justify it later to an administrative judge.
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  19. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    I agree 100%
  20. TearsInRain

    TearsInRain IE boogeyman

    they should discipline you for it, but the truth is they can’t afford to lose any drivers now even for a day, so they’re too scared

    if you were a tues-sat driver and pulled the fatigue bull:censored2: on monday, i would absolutely discipline