Fedex paying 500 a day to run unserviced routes

[12's are dna's for life]

What a stupid comment. Yea I got guys knocking out their routes load and deliver in 6 hours . That's $25 an hour how will they ever survive . Please speak more of the physical nature of the job that atleast makes sense .

 

[59 Dano]

I feel as if i'm one of the few non contractors (or former contractors here). Have any of you guys ever tried being honest with your employees? Most of the drivers ive talked to have a general grasp of what it costs to run this business and how you are paid. The problem is (at my sort at least) no contractor will talk about what their p/s rate is or any one of the other ways their paid.

What this has a tendency to lead to is driver a goes to driver b and says "did you know the boss gets 7$ a stop and 5$ a package?" driver b then realizes at 100 stops a day and 200 packages his boss is making $1700-$2000 a day while he is making 120-150.

driver a and b are now and one of two things happen
1. drivers quit because they believe they have been getting screwed.
2. drivers demand raises beyond what their contractor can pay and then quit when the contractor refuses.

maybe... just maybe sitting down and explaining why you cant pay more might benefit you by lowering your turnover which would save you money.

From experience (not with Ground, but Express), the majority of people who would fall into that category are victims of the "seeing is believing" fallacy. What they see, as they see it, is the truth to them. They see the contractor grossing big money and I DON'T WANT TO HEAR EXCUSES I WANT A RAISE.

 

[FedGT]

So you pay a bottom level wage that would be almost impossible to live on. I was paying HD drivers a base of $125 plus a bonus for going over a certain mileage or stop number. And that was more than 10 years ago. I made maybe $10 a day in 'profit' from each driver and even showed them my checks.

He doesn’t pay anyone. He’s an employee that was writing his guesstimates of cost

 

[59 Dano]

There is always talk about what ups make compared to us but its generally laughable ups guy in my area is doing far more stops and is micromanaged to absolutely absurd levels. ill take less pay to not have to deal with that.

And that's just what you got.

You mentioned in another post that you got $150/day and posted a pic with close to 200 stops and 200 miles. Starting courier pay when I left Express was a little over $17/hour. You'd make $150/day in under 9 hours, get decent benefits, and have nowhere near the heavy bulky freight that you're handling now.

 

[Exec32]

agreed having to explain that the employer also pays payroll taxes was fun.... apparently people in their 40s-50s had no idea that if the boss pays 800 pre-tax hes actually spending close to 900.



I honestly believe you have some personal bias and blow out of proportion some of what x does.
If you were correct in that statement x would lose its "investor class" quite quickly and the group who would take over (drivers/managers) would not have the available capital to ensure proper delivery. I have a hard time believing FedEx would sink the only division that continues to grow at a massive rate.

Investor class? Seriously bro, there is no such thing.
Investors evaluate risk, measure returns, and determine profit loss. What X wants has no clue about any of those.
What you are talking about are ignorant uninformed individuals that believe the X brand will bring them fortunes.

 

[Exec32]

agreed having to explain that the employer also pays payroll taxes was fun.... apparently people in their 40s-50s had no idea that if the boss pays 800 pre-tax hes actually spending close to 900.



I honestly believe you have some personal bias and blow out of proportion some of what x does.
If you were correct in that statement x would lose its "investor class" quite quickly and the group who would take over (drivers/managers) would not have the available capital to ensure proper delivery. I have a hard time believing FedEx would sink the only division that continues to grow at a massive rate.

They dont need an investor class to bring capital. They have got plenty of current contractors that have second mortgages and personal credit lines for that.
Look around, you know it's TRUE. X prefers to deal with the ignorant compliant contractors they have now because you guys are harmless, you will do everything they say, an investor would not.

 

[vantexan]

From experience (not with Ground, but Express), the majority of people who would fall into that category are victims of the "seeing is believing" fallacy. What they see, as they see it, is the truth to them. They see the contractor grossing big money and I DON'T WANT TO HEAR EXCUSES I WANT A RAISE.

Do you think the guys at Express had a legitimate beef about raises for quite some time?

 

[59 Dano]

Do you think the guys at Express had a legitimate beef about raises for quite some time?

Some do.

 

[XEQaF]

They dont need an investor class to bring capital. They have got plenty of current contractors that have second mortgages and personal credit lines for that.
Look around, you know it's TRUE. X prefers to deal with the ignorant compliant contractors they have now because you guys are harmless, you will do everything they say, an investor would not.

Absolutely! Great discussions and insight. Well another IC walks. After a 6 year go working out of a satellite station and fighting the incompetence of these puppet managers, I submitted a 30 day notice to end my contractual obligations with X as at Nov 30, leaving them a storm of a peak. You are right when you say Contractors need to educate themselves on the realities of this model. You are never in control of your "business". All you really are is a glorified route manager with business expenses. Wake up and stand up for yourselves peeps!

 

[It will be fine]

Absolutely! Great discussions and insight. Well another IC walks. After a 6 year go working out of a satellite station and fighting the incompetence of these puppet managers, I submitted a 30 day notice to end my contractual obligations with X as at Nov 30, leaving them a storm of a peak. You are right when you say Contractors need to educate themselves on the realities of this model. You are never in control of your "business". All you really are is a glorified route manager with business expenses. Wake up and stand up for yourselves peeps!

What’s the benefit of walking away over selling your operation?

 

[bacha29]

Absolutely! Great discussions and insight. Well another IC walks. After a 6 year go working out of a satellite station and fighting the incompetence of these puppet managers, I submitted a 30 day notice to end my contractual obligations with X as at Nov 30, leaving them a storm of a peak. You are right when you say Contractors need to educate themselves on the realities of this model. You are never in control of your "business". All you really are is a glorified route manager with business expenses. Wake up and stand up for yourselves peeps!

Indeed. There is simply no evidence whatsoever to support the claim of "owning your own business" in the traditional sense of the word. If looking for a prime example of it XG grudgingly went along with the requirement that contractors identify themselves as third party contractors through the use of a disclaimer on their truck. Yet they decide what the sign will look like how big it will be and where it will be positioned on the truck..... The dirtiest, most slopped up place on the truck. The place where it's the hardest to see.

 

[59 Dano]

What’s the benefit of walking away over selling your operation?

Knowing that he chose to quit instead of sell, is it a surprise that he couldn't handle it?

 

[It will be fine]

Knowing that he chose to quit instead of sell, is it a surprise that he couldn't handle it?

I find it very bizarre there are now 2 guys here bragging about leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table. Even if you want out, which is completely understandable, sell the operation. Put it up with a broker at a bargain price if you want out quickly. If you’ve dealt with the BS for 6 years what’s another 6 months for $100k?

 

[XEQaF]

I'm sure you all don't want to hear about my bitching and crying about me being a victim so I'll spare you the details. Let me just say that I was an IC operating in a small city in Ontario Canada. We are still using the IC agreement, where I in the US the ISP has been introduced. I have extensive experience within supply chain management, educated in International Business with a discipline in Logistics, So I'm not just a run of the mill grunt type contractor.

Over the years I've had many head shaking experiences in many incompetent and unprofessional decisions and management practises from my senior managers. Progressing my ideas and forwarding the X brand was always met with resistance. To make a long story short and to answer your question: the relationship between myself and X had become fractured to the point where I made the decision and I felt I was a threat to them because I was to much of an independent thinker and that is not the quality they want in a contractor. What do you do with an active threat? You eliminate it in big corporation bullying ways. The last straw was they arbitrarily disqualified my most valued driver, and in a small town you value your employees because you develop them and treat them in a way that they enjoy their work and their environment which I hold strongly to that opinion.

They knew I wouldn't be able to recover on time to meet my obligations for peak, thus they would be able to point their finger at me saying I breached the contract by not meeting those obligations. So I made the move on them. They offered to let me have a 45 day extension so that I may have the opportunity to sell. Being from a small city where I'm the only contractor, density in delivery is an issue and every dollar counts, any potential investor with a good business sense would see that you can't sell based on future potential earnings in a model of this kind but your value is in the after tax income and your assets. 45 days is not enough time to find a buyer, which in reality is giving them 45 days to set up the next fool to take over and use the inevitable failure of peak as a way for not renewing my contract in February. So I was doing them a favor of using my resources and systems to help them through the toughest part of the year so they can shine.

So this isn't me bragging about leaving in the way I did or not being able to handle it. It's the fact that realizing you are up against a machine that doesn't support you, and if you are worth your values and integrity as a business professional and authentic version of yourself you must make those hardline decisions to make your point

 

[XEQaF]

Indeed. There is simply no evidence whatsoever to support the claim of "owning your own business" in the traditional sense of the word. If looking for a prime example of it XG grudgingly went along with the requirement that contractors identify themselves as third party contractors through the use of a disclaimer on their truck. Yet they decide what the sign will look like how big it will be and where it will be positioned on the truck..... The dirtiest, most slopped up place on the truck. The place where it's the hardest to see.

I have to say thank you for your efforts in showing clarity. When battling a top down style of leadership it is hard to get your point across when the machine is hard to defeat. The important thing to remember is stay informed, stay true to your principles and values, and I see that in you and others here, again thank you!

 

[dezguy]

I find it very bizarre there are now 2 guys here bragging about leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table. Even if you want out, which is completely understandable, sell the operation. Put it up with a broker at a bargain price if you want out quickly. If you’ve dealt with the BS for 6 years what’s another 6 months for $100k?

When you contract for the fun of it, money isn't an issue.

 

[It will be fine]

I'm sure you all don't want to hear about my bitching and crying about me being a victim so I'll spare you the details. Let me just say that I was an IC operating in a small city in Ontario Canada. We are still using the IC agreement, where I in the US the ISP has been introduced. I have extensive experience within supply chain management, educated in International Business with a discipline in Logistics, So I'm not just a run of the mill grunt type contractor.

Over the years I've had many head shaking experiences in many incompetent and unprofessional decisions and management practises from my senior managers. Progressing my ideas and forwarding the X brand was always met with resistance. To make a long story short and to answer your question: the relationship between myself and X had become fractured to the point where I made the decision and I felt I was a threat to them because I was to much of an independent thinker and that is not the quality they want in a contractor. What do you do with an active threat? You eliminate it in big corporation bullying ways. The last straw was they arbitrarily disqualified my most valued driver, and in a small town you value your employees because you develop them and treat them in a way that they enjoy their work and their environment which I hold strongly to that opinion.

They knew I wouldn't be able to recover on time to meet my obligations for peak, thus they would be able to point their finger at me saying I breached the contract by not meeting those obligations. So I made the move on them. They offered to let me have a 45 day extension so that I may have the opportunity to sell. Being from a small city where I'm the only contractor, density in delivery is an issue and every dollar counts, any potential investor with a good business sense would see that you can't sell based on future potential earnings in a model of this kind but your value is in the after tax income and your assets. 45 days is not enough time to find a buyer, which in reality is giving them 45 days to set up the next fool to take over and use the inevitable failure of peak as a way for not renewing my contract in February. So I was doing them a favor of using my resources and systems to help them through the toughest part of the year so they can shine.

So this isn't me bragging about leaving in the way I did or not being able to handle it. It's the fact that realizing you are up against a machine that doesn't support you, and if you are worth your values and integrity as a business professional and authentic version of yourself you must make those hardline decisions to make your point

Sorry, still doesn’t add up. One driver lost has you walk away in November when your contract went to February? That’s 4 months to find a buyer and running the operation during the 2 most profitable months of the year. I’m glad you walked, it is one of the few things that makes fedex realize they’ve squeezed too much, but I wouldn’t do it. Too much money to be had riding out a sale timeline.

 

[Mutineer]

You eliminate it in big corporation bullying ways. The last straw was they arbitrarily disqualified my most valued driver,

Indeed. Management pulled a similar stunt on me. Imagine their surprise when in return I abandoned (without warning) a very difficult, problematic Air Force base that I was servicing that was NOT in my contract. Or anyone else's contract, either. After that, I operated (skittered and dodged) five more years as a 'problematic' contractor in what immediately became and was ever after a nit-picking, Orwellian, toxic environment.

values and integrity as a business professional and authentic version of yourself you must make those hardline decisions to make your point

It's cute you had 'values' while contracting with XG. Candle in the wind.

 

[59 Dano]

They offered to let me have a 45 day extension so that I may have the opportunity to sell. Being from a small city where I'm the only contractor, density in delivery is an issue and every dollar counts, any potential investor with a good business sense would see that you can't sell based on future potential earnings in a model of this kind but your value is in the after tax income and your assets. 45 days is not enough time to find a buyer, which in reality is giving them 45 days to set up the next fool to take over and use the inevitable failure of peak as a way for not renewing my contract in February.

And here you are without a nose and bragging about it!

 

[59 Dano]

Sorry, still doesn’t add up. One driver lost has you walk away in November when your contract went to February? That’s 4 months to find a buyer and running the operation during the 2 most profitable months of the year. I’m glad you walked, it is one of the few things that makes fedex realize they’ve squeezed too much, but I wouldn’t do it. Too much money to be had riding out a sale timeline.

These guys are all the same. They play the "It was an integrity issue" hand a little too strong. I can't explain it but they play it just a little too strong for a little too long. It's one thing to say that you didn't like the terms or the interactions with management, because we've all been there in one way or another and most people understand that. But there's that effort to paint the adversary as this huge amoral beast and themselves as the upholders of decency and morality. It has been my experience that those folks are trying to make excuses instead of being straightforward.

This guy is admitting to making a monumental bonehead business decision on the grounds that he was "sticking it to the man." Well, he's just another footnote in the history of "the man," "the man" is alive and well and prospering, and he's complaining on a message board.