wkmac
Well-Known Member
Why the Dark Secrets of the First Gulf War Are Still Haunting Us
and while we're at it, let's address the
Silence of the Liberals
and while we're at it, let's address the
Silence of the Liberals
First Gulf War
- Thread starter wkmac
- Start date
tieguy
Banned
thats the problem with this country. There we had a nice little war stopping the middle east version of Hitler from starting another world war and some wack job wants to take the details and make it all sound seedy.
It was a just war and I stand behind it 100 percent. I need no other spin or angle on it.
Yeah, baby! Me too.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
wkmac
Well-Known Member
source
Butler later wrote a book by the same name and here is the complete book if you dare to read it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
tieguy
Banned
I am always amazed when someone devotes his life to a particular career, sucks it dry for all the fame and glory he can devise from it and then tries to badmouth it once he has sucked it dry.
I suppose I would be more so impressed with the good general if he had discovered the taints of war early in life. Somehow he had to make it up to major general before he discovered the need to speak out.
Story goes like this:
build rank, stature and a comfortable living off of it and then badmouth it in your memoirs when its time to sell a book.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Would you care to apply that same condemnation to Eisenhower as in his final address to the nation he very much made the same conclusions?
No offense Tie but your idea of "Getting the Big Picture" only applies to one side of your narrow blinders to the other side of those same blinders! I'd bet until today and if you read another post of mine elsewhere, you didn't even know that military-industrial complex powerhouse General Electric's head dog in Gerard Swope was also the mastermind behind the socialist (in reality fascist) National Recovery Adminstration and advised the early infamous Social Security Act. The Swope Plan called for such things that many in the union movement love to claim as happening because of unions themselves. Guess again. It all came from politically connected heads of big business who wanted to monopolize their markets with federal mandated costs to squeeze out smaller more dynamic competition who lacked the size and capitial resources to absorb those costs without passing on to the customer. Instead of dealing product to product and cost to cost, they used political connections and gov't power to squeeze out competition. They couldn't compete so they used gov't to protect their markets for tem.
This isn't free market economics, it's 19th century merchantilism but until it gets noted in proper sources of history for you, mainly the evening "Talking Points memo" on Fox News, you'll just decry and ignore it all!
You make the perfect UPS manager Tie, told what to think and never depart from it!
BTW Tie: I'm not talking at you, I'm talking over you!
tieguy
Banned
Would you care to apply that same condemnation to Eisenhower as in his final address to the nation he very much made the same conclusions?
Absolutely. I don't buy the "its a dirty job but somebody has to do it" excuse. I think your major general was immoral if he performed the job until he had extracted every benifit from it and then suddenly discovered a conscience.
No offense Tie but your idea of "Getting the Big Picture" only applies to one side of your narrow blinders to the other side of those same blinders!
I would say the same about you. You found someone willing to badmouth his country and give you some bullsheet about how evil the country is and you could care less if the guy had to be every bit the slime ball he accuses his country of being. I don't buy it. Show me your conscience and stand on principles when you first get into the job not a successfull career , 4 cadillacs and a mansion later.
But the short answer is he put his country down, its a message you wanted to hear so you bought it hook line and sinker without looking any further.
Smedley Butler is a Marine Corps icon, not least because he won the medal of honor twice. When he retired he was the most decorated officer in Marine Corps history. All Marines learn about him in boot camp, he's right up there with Chesty Puller and Dan Daly. He certainly didn't wait till his career was over to say what he thought, in fact his outspokeness hurt him on a number of occasions and ultimately cost him the job of commandant. President Hoover hated him and actually had him arrested at one point. What was his crime? He had dared to publicly criticize our "good friend" Benito Mussolini. Hmmm.. a valued ally who later turned out to be a threat to the free world, that sounds familiar.
He was a true patriot who loved his country, but who was very concerned about the creeping militarism and imperialism that he saw as a threat to democracy. As mac pointed out, President Eisenhower had those exact same concerns. If you know anything about our military involvement in south and central America in the 20's and 30's, then you realize that his assessment of our policies there was accurate. We weren't fighting to keep America safe or to rid the world of evil, we were fighting for the business interests of US corporations.
He died in 1940 at the age of 59, having spent more than half his life in the service of his country. To my knowledge he never had 4 Cadillacs and a mansion.
He was a true patriot who loved his country, but who was very concerned about the creeping militarism and imperialism that he saw as a threat to democracy. As mac pointed out, President Eisenhower had those exact same concerns. If you know anything about our military involvement in south and central America in the 20's and 30's, then you realize that his assessment of our policies there was accurate. We weren't fighting to keep America safe or to rid the world of evil, we were fighting for the business interests of US corporations.
He died in 1940 at the age of 59, having spent more than half his life in the service of his country. To my knowledge he never had 4 Cadillacs and a mansion.
tieguy
Banned
I don't disagree with his military accomplishments. Though I do think they gave out too many medal of honors too easily back then.
But he also had a very lucrative run on the speech circut catering to the pacificist and isolationist of the thirtys.
I don't have a lot of respect for people who try to sell books and sell theirselves badmouthing the career they served.
I think they lose any credibility when they turn on who or what they served for financial gain.
tieguy
Banned
Wkmac lets be honest here. In this venue you arrogantly think you are the only one that has the right answer. You constantly mock others for their political positions. Your posts drip with the arrogance and smugness of someone who thinks he is the only one here with the right answer. Your prior post about my not willing to look at the other side of an issue was laughable. Your perspective has always been that the other side is the only one you will take on an issue. If that position does not badmouth this country and its governement. If it does not drip with some evil ulterior motive then it simply will not suit your superior taste. So with that in mind I welcome the opportunity to make strong stances on opinions. I welcome the chance to stand behind my country right or wrong. I do not need some evil government plot to provide me with material to pleasure myself. I will not support or idiolize someone who serves an administration or his country and then turns on them to profit from it. Once that happens I believe that person and his tell all book have lost any credibility.
It may mean my mind is limited but it also means I stand on principles of fair play. I stand on the principles of supporting my country right or wrong. I stand behind my decision to support the republican party right or wrong. I stand behind my decision to support GW bush right or wrong.
Try taking a firm position and standing behind something with principles and convictions. then come lecture me on my shortcomings.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Poor Tie! I'm sorry I make you so insecure.
Is it the mask and hat?
Then again, maybe like many other Americans I'm just sick and tired of the 2 party political system you and your counterparts keep shoving down America's throat and all we get from it all is just more and more screwed!
And I'm supposed to sit here and think that is somehow intellectually superior and therefore bow down to it?
Not gonna happen!
Not to mention the lie after lie told by the politicians to the people to garner their votes and then once in office, to bow down to the will of special interests with boat loads of money and do 180's on most every promise made during the election process. I'm suppose to now trust that very system as being truly concerned in my wellbeing and do the right thing by the very people that voted for them?
Not gonna happen!
For it's own political gains, gov't manipulates economies and wasting taxpayer dollars all for the benefit of the sacred cows of special interests who've managed to gain station at the politicians feet. I'm suppose to give my loyality to an entity that has no loyality to me?
Not gonna happen!
However, I do appreciate the fact you admitted Bush enacted some socialist programs and you even declared them successful. Unlike some of your other red state friends, at least you are honest about your liking a socialist system of some measure. I do at least respect that out of you. But did you ever consider that some of us might not appreciate being forced into a socialist system in the first place and even worse hidden behind a lie as these same politicians publically condemn others as socialist while they attempt similar acts. And I'm suppose to feel gratitude towards this system and people like you who us majority status and draconian force to shove this all down my throat whether I want it or not?
Not gonna happen!
You got 2 choices Tie,
1) mount a campaign and have me banned. Easy to do, majority rules, right?
2) put me on ignore
Your choice!
Is it the mask and hat?
Then again, maybe like many other Americans I'm just sick and tired of the 2 party political system you and your counterparts keep shoving down America's throat and all we get from it all is just more and more screwed!
And I'm supposed to sit here and think that is somehow intellectually superior and therefore bow down to it?
Not gonna happen!
Not to mention the lie after lie told by the politicians to the people to garner their votes and then once in office, to bow down to the will of special interests with boat loads of money and do 180's on most every promise made during the election process. I'm suppose to now trust that very system as being truly concerned in my wellbeing and do the right thing by the very people that voted for them?
Not gonna happen!
For it's own political gains, gov't manipulates economies and wasting taxpayer dollars all for the benefit of the sacred cows of special interests who've managed to gain station at the politicians feet. I'm suppose to give my loyality to an entity that has no loyality to me?
Not gonna happen!
However, I do appreciate the fact you admitted Bush enacted some socialist programs and you even declared them successful. Unlike some of your other red state friends, at least you are honest about your liking a socialist system of some measure. I do at least respect that out of you. But did you ever consider that some of us might not appreciate being forced into a socialist system in the first place and even worse hidden behind a lie as these same politicians publically condemn others as socialist while they attempt similar acts. And I'm suppose to feel gratitude towards this system and people like you who us majority status and draconian force to shove this all down my throat whether I want it or not?
Not gonna happen!
You got 2 choices Tie,
1) mount a campaign and have me banned. Easy to do, majority rules, right?
2) put me on ignore
Your choice!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
But the very next sentence in the piece IMO makes one really begin to question if the quest for an Afghanistan western style democracy is even possible at all.
Source: Newsweek
At some point we need to ask serious questions about our real goals and purposes in this region IMO or is this just another example of "The Racket?"
tieguy
Banned
Its a message board , I can choose to put you on ignore or address whatever issue you raise or address how you raise the issue. This time I chose the latter.
tieguy
Banned
JimJimmyJames
Big Time Feeder Driver
In my mind a true patriot loves his country, not necessarily it's politics. I was a dyed in the wool Republican at one time. That is until I found the party acting in a way that was contrary to their stated conservative principles. Now I am an independent who has come to the understanding that neither party serves the peoples interests as much as their own. What is that interest? Whatever the elites in this country decide it to be. And the elites control both parties.
I am dismayed when anyone declares a "right or wrong" philosophy. How can any of your decisions be considered reasoned if you allow others to make it for you? And, more importantly, how are we to take seriously your thoughts if you are nothing but a parrot or puppet of others?
As for General Butler, he is a personal hero of mine. As Jones has pointed out he did not sell out after retiring but fought for what he thought was right his whole life. And if at times he was forced to do what his nation asked of him, even if he may have believed what his nation was doing was wrong, does not make him a hypocrite. It means he takes his commitments seriously. Those young men that were being marched off to war were going to war whether Butler was with them or not. Having a trained and highly skilled soldier to lead and protect them was more important than his personal misgivings with the government.
wkmac, you cannot use Eisenhower to show today's "conservatives" how they might just be wrong in supporting the "war party". After all, Ike was the last president to actually stand up to Israel. And we know how wrong questioning Israel is.
I am dismayed when anyone declares a "right or wrong" philosophy. How can any of your decisions be considered reasoned if you allow others to make it for you? And, more importantly, how are we to take seriously your thoughts if you are nothing but a parrot or puppet of others?
As for General Butler, he is a personal hero of mine. As Jones has pointed out he did not sell out after retiring but fought for what he thought was right his whole life. And if at times he was forced to do what his nation asked of him, even if he may have believed what his nation was doing was wrong, does not make him a hypocrite. It means he takes his commitments seriously. Those young men that were being marched off to war were going to war whether Butler was with them or not. Having a trained and highly skilled soldier to lead and protect them was more important than his personal misgivings with the government.
wkmac, you cannot use Eisenhower to show today's "conservatives" how they might just be wrong in supporting the "war party". After all, Ike was the last president to actually stand up to Israel. And we know how wrong questioning Israel is.
tieguy
Banned
As to what supporting the PLO? Organized terrorists who have no qualms about killing innocent children and people in the streets. You felt the need to jump into this conversation and show me up and that was supposed to be your checkmate shot at me? You deliver your checkmate shot at me by trying to draw wkmac back into support you? What no confidence in your clever little shot? Good god man if you're so hell bent and determined to kick my but then let it rip. Don't pusillanimous foot around with some weak arse crap about israel.
