Grievance Pending..no vacation pay?

BuffaloDream

Bring on the Sunshine!
:confused:1I have a grievance that is going to the state level for termination of employment with UPS on April 30, 2007. I did not receive my vacation pay scheduled for last Friday? And upon several requests have only been given an answer: Because you have a grievance for termination it has been past practice that vacation not be paid until after the grievance is settled or you resign. I have been asked to resign more that 6 times now. Anyone have any comments or answers for me. I know the rigths by state law and there is nothing in either the National or Supplement about this isssue. I have worked for UPS for over 4 years now and this is the first time I have been in a Union. Any thoughts would be appreciated. My BA has told me that its past practice also and had no suggestions for me. Any help or comments?

Thanks,
Buffy!!! :confused:1
 

raceanoncr

Well-Known Member
First of all...DO NOT RESIGN! I think you know that already.

Second of all...get rid of your BA! I don't care about past practice. Your vacation is something you earned the past yr and should be paid. It's not a promise of something that you get if you stay on past a certain date. It is something that you worked for for putting in the required number of hrs prior that that.
 

raceanoncr

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, Race, this may be bad advice. If Buffy has been asked to resign six times, there may be a good reason for it. Is there a story behind this termination? -Rocky


There may be more story, Rocky, but from what I remember (don't want to archive this) she's got a potty mouth (I love it when a woman talks dirty to me) or was accused of racism or something else the company just loves to jump on these days. It's a blanket excuse to get rid of an "undesirable".

In my experience, and the reason I gave this advice, I have found that if the company has ANY doubt in their case, they will try to shame the employee into resigning so the monkey's off their back.

I have been to many a hearing (about my favorite subject...ME!!!), where I knew it was a slam dunk but was deadlocked locally and the state level because they were just so arrogant and stubborn they didn't want to admit defeat. I have won many at the national arbitration with rulings that made local look small potatoes (or is that POTOTOS?). I was also told that resignation may be a viable alternative for me to save face. Well, guess what? I'm still here (with more grievance $ in my pocket) and most of THEM ain't!

Yeah, maybe we better hear more details tho.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
There may be more story, Rocky, but from what I remember (don't want to archive this) she's got a potty mouth (I love it when a woman talks dirty to me) or was accused of racism or something else the company just loves to jump on these days. It's a blanket excuse to get rid of an "undesirable".

Ohhhh, OK, Race. I remember this one now.

In my experience, and the reason I gave this advice, I have found that if the company has ANY doubt in their case, they will try to shame the employee into resigning so the monkey's off their back.

I have been to many a hearing (about my favorite subject...ME!!!), where I knew it was a slam dunk but was deadlocked locally and the state level because they were just so arrogant and stubborn they didn't want to admit defeat. I have won many at the national arbitration with rulings that made local look small potatoes (or is that POTOTOS?). I was also told that resignation may be a viable alternative for me to save face. Well, guess what? I'm still here (with more grievance $ in my pocket) and most of THEM ain't!

Yeah, maybe we better hear more details tho.

Never really thought about it in terms of the Company having doubts about their case, to be honest. It makes sense. I've filed one grievance in my total of 4 years as a union member and that was in retail. I was driven out because of it. Congrats on grievance $$. Take 'em to the cleaners for ME next time lol. And its spelled POTATOES, sir :thumbup1:. I was looking for more details in something like swearing being common in the operation. I know in every UPS operation I've ever worked, four letter expletives and screamed "You SOB's" was very common:lol:. Racist comments were unacceptable. My original operation was staffed by mostly young guys. There are a few jokes or phrases that border on racist but only one Hispanic took offense to it since it was directed at him personally rather than a group. That's one too many. Young guys will be young guys, Race, and I recall a few Hispanics joining in the laughter when the guy that took offense started yelling in Spanish. -Rocky
 

rebel

Well-Known Member
You will get your vacation pay at some point, however if the termination stands you will not get your option pay.
 

BuffaloDream

Bring on the Sunshine!
Well folks i called myself a * to another employee...with the f word in it...without gettin detailed...this person often (meaning daily) swears and makes sexual comments to other employees. Along with the rest of the employees...no one ever in my four years has takin any of it seriously. And yes i do believe this was a plot to get rid of me. The night after I was fired the person that so called filed the complaint...so called complaint by management...lol...was wearing all new attire....UPS attire ...hmmmmm..well you make the call...Thanks for the comments!
Buffy!!!
 

tieguy

Banned
Make the call?

Number one what you did was wrong. Yes its BS if the person complaining is the way you describe. And getting witnesses to testify to the way that person acts would help your case but you're still wrong in todays overly sensitive to race issues world. The rules are you can't speak that way. Period. You can call it BS , make a good case that you were not treated fairly but if your stupid enough to use that language at work then you are risking your job.

If the company really dislikes you as you allude and wanted to fire you then you were stupid to play into their hands by giving them something like this which generally does not sound good in front of a panel when you are fighting for your job.

Did the company take advantage of a situation that came up to fire someone they did not like. Its very likely.

Did the company pay the complaintent so they could take you out absolutely not.

Were you wrong to use that kind of language at work. Yes you were.

Thats my call. And you won't find it in any company literature.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Make the call?

Number one what you did was wrong. Yes its BS if the person complaining is the way you describe. And getting witnesses to testify to the way that person acts would help your case but you're still wrong in todays overly sensitive to race issues world. The rules are you can't speak that way. Period. You can call it BS , make a good case that you were not treated fairly but if your stupid enough to use that language at work then you are risking your job.

If the company really dislikes you as you allude and wanted to fire you then you were stupid to play into their hands by giving them something like this which generally does not sound good in front of a panel when you are fighting for your job.

Did the company take advantage of a situation that came up to fire someone they did not like. Its very likely.

Did the company pay the complaintent so they could take you out absolutely not.

Were you wrong to use that kind of language at work. Yes you were.

Thats my call. And you won't find it in any company literature.
Tie she was fired for HARASSMENT. Its only harassment if she has been talked to in the past for Harassing, a one time blurp is not a case of harassment. The company has not shown an attempt to correct her behavior, so unless theres more to the story she will be back with back pay, usually (back pay).

Tie if she happens to be black does it make a difference?
 

tieguy

Banned
Tie she was fired for HARASSMENT. Its only harassment if she has been talked to in the past for Harassing, a one time blurp is not a case of harassment. The company has not shown an attempt to correct her behavior, so unless theres more to the story she will be back with back pay, usually (back pay).

Tie if she happens to be black does it make a difference?

Red I don't make the rules I just try to avoid the mines in the minefield.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Red I don't make the rules I just try to avoid the mines in the minefield.
Your right tie, but we dont operate a day care! People work hard and at times are over pushed and explode, thats not the definition of harrasment its worthy of progresive corrective behavior not a termination.
 

tieguy

Banned
Your right tie, but we dont operate a day care! People work hard and at times are over pushed and explode, thats not the definition of harrasment its worthy of progresive corrective behavior not a termination.

No doubt but use the racial trigger and its like you just dropped a nuke. In this case I think you're right on her getting her job back but wrong on the back pay. That little phrase of hers will not sound good in front of a panel. Her BA will have to settle for less if he wants to keep her employed.
 

Channahon

Well-Known Member
I've had the opportunity to deal with harrassment at UPS. Quite often employees think "sexual harrassment" is the only type that is not acceptable. Any time an employee feels UNCOMFORTABLE in the workplace, it can be construed as harrassment. More often than not, the employee was terminated from UPS.

I have also seen other types of discipline, from suspensions with no back pay, to management not getting a stock award or a pay increase.
There can also be legal issues for both UPS and the employee.

Respect in the workplace by all UPS employees would eliminate these types of situations.

Types of harassments
  • Bullying
    Harassment that can occur on the playground, school, in the workforce or any other place. Usually physical and psychological harassing behavior perpetrated against an individual, by one or more persons.
  • Psychological harassment
    This is humiliating or abusive behavior that lowers a person’s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, actions or gestures. Falling into this category is workplace mobbing.
  • Racial harassment
    The targeting of an individual because of their race or ethnicity. The harassment's include words, deeds, and actions, that are specifically designed to make the target feel degraded due to their race of origin or ethnicity.
  • Religious harassment
    Verbal, psychological or physical harassment's used against targets because they choose to practice a specific religion. Religious harassment can also include forced and involuntary conversions.
  • Sexual harassment
    Harassment that can happen anywhere but is most common in the workplace, and schools. It involves unwanted and unwelcome, words, deeds, actions, gestures, symbols, or behaviors of a sexual nature that make the target feel uncomfortable. Gender and sexual orientation harassment fall into this family.
  • Stalking
    The unauthorized following and surveillance of an individual, to the extent that the persons privacy is unacceptably intruded upon, and the victim fears for their safety.
  • Mobbing
    Violence committed directly or indirectly by a loosely affiliated and organized group of individuals to punish or even execute a person for some alleged offense without a lawful trial. The 'offense' can range from a serious crime like murder or simple expression of ethnic, cultural, or religious attitudes. The issue of the victim's actual guilt or innocence is often irrelevant to the mob, since the mob relies on contentions that are unverifiable, unsubstantiated, or completely fabricated.
  • Hazing
    To persecute, harass, or torture in a deliberate, calculated, planned, manner. Typically the targeted individual is a subordinate, for example, a fraternity pledge, a first-year military cadet, or somebody who is considered 'inferior' or an 'outsider'. Hazing is illegal in many instances.
  • Backlash
    Backlash or 'victim blaming' occurs when the harasser or other people in the environment blame the victim for the harassment, or the resulting controversies and conflicts after the harassment is reported or discovered. Backlash results when people erroneously believe the victim could stop the harassment if they really tried, or that the victim must have done something to cause the harassment. The victim may be accused of trying to get attention, covering for incompetence, or in cases where the harassment is proven, lying about the extent of the effects. "Old school" attitudes about certain kinds of harassment remain and there are in many circumstances social pressure for victims to "keep their mouths shut" about abuse or suffer the consequences.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I've had the opportunity to deal with harrassment at UPS. Quite often employees think "sexual harrassment" is the only type that is not acceptable. Any time an employee feels UNCOMFORTABLE in the workplace, it can be construed as harrassment. More often than not, the employee was terminated from UPS.

I have also seen other types of discipline, from suspensions with no back pay, to management not getting a stock award or a pay increase.
There can also be legal issues for both UPS and the employee.

Respect in the workplace by all UPS employees would eliminate these types of situations.

Types of harassments
  • Bullying
    Harassment that can occur on the playground, school, in the workforce or any other place. Usually physical and psychological harassing behavior perpetrated against an individual, by one or more persons.
  • Psychological harassment
    This is humiliating or abusive behavior that lowers a person’s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, actions or gestures. Falling into this category is workplace mobbing.
  • Racial harassment
    The targeting of an individual because of their race or ethnicity. The harassment's include words, deeds, and actions, that are specifically designed to make the target feel degraded due to their race of origin or ethnicity.
  • Religious harassment
    Verbal, psychological or physical harassment's used against targets because they choose to practice a specific religion. Religious harassment can also include forced and involuntary conversions.
  • Sexual harassment
    Harassment that can happen anywhere but is most common in the workplace, and schools. It involves unwanted and unwelcome, words, deeds, actions, gestures, symbols, or behaviors of a sexual nature that make the target feel uncomfortable. Gender and sexual orientation harassment fall into this family.
  • Stalking
    The unauthorized following and surveillance of an individual, to the extent that the persons privacy is unacceptably intruded upon, and the victim fears for their safety.
  • Mobbing
    Violence committed directly or indirectly by a loosely affiliated and organized group of individuals to punish or even execute a person for some alleged offense without a lawful trial. The 'offense' can range from a serious crime like murder or simple expression of ethnic, cultural, or religious attitudes. The issue of the victim's actual guilt or innocence is often irrelevant to the mob, since the mob relies on contentions that are unverifiable, unsubstantiated, or completely fabricated.
  • Hazing
    To persecute, harass, or torture in a deliberate, calculated, planned, manner. Typically the targeted individual is a subordinate, for example, a fraternity pledge, a first-year military cadet, or somebody who is considered 'inferior' or an 'outsider'. Hazing is illegal in many instances.
  • Backlash
    Backlash or 'victim blaming' occurs when the harasser or other people in the environment blame the victim for the harassment, or the resulting controversies and conflicts after the harassment is reported or discovered. Backlash results when people erroneously believe the victim could stop the harassment if they really tried, or that the victim must have done something to cause the harassment. The victim may be accused of trying to get attention, covering for incompetence, or in cases where the harassment is proven, lying about the extent of the effects. "Old school" attitudes about certain kinds of harassment remain and there are in many circumstances social pressure for victims to "keep their mouths shut" about abuse or suffer the consequences.
Your right, but were did you come up with that list of harassing situations? Unless the company documents and shows an attempt at correcting the behavior and situation, there is no harassment. the company feels like if they fire it shows the person that it wont be tolerated which in itself is form of harassment. 2 wrongs wont make a right. No one wins in these cases, the union sux for getting the person back, while both parties feel like a victim.
 

Channahon

Well-Known Member
My posting of harrassment types are for general knowledge, not a UPS document.

I have seen the first 6 while working for UPS.
 

BuffaloDream

Bring on the Sunshine!
Make the call?

Number one what you did was wrong. Yes its BS if the person complaining is the way you describe. And getting witnesses to testify to the way that person acts would help your case but you're still wrong in todays overly sensitive to race issues world. The rules are you can't speak that way. Period. You can call it BS , make a good case that you were not treated fairly but if your stupid enough to use that language at work then you are risking your job.

If the company really dislikes you as you allude and wanted to fire you then you were stupid to play into their hands by giving them something like this which generally does not sound good in front of a panel when you are fighting for your job.

Did the company take advantage of a situation that came up to fire someone they did not like. Its very likely.

Did the company pay the complaintent so they could take you out absolutely not.

Were you wrong to use that kind of language at work. Yes you were.

Thats my call. And you won't find it in any company literature.[/quote

Boy Tieguy..you really know how to make a girl feel good! What do you think I am an idiot?
Of course I know it was wrong to use that language, what I am saying is everyone in the hub is allowed to use this kind of language without discipline of any kind and now all of a sudden after 4 years of employment I am being singled out for it.

And yes I believe the company ran with this comment...I live where there is 95% whites, rural community. The supervisor on duty overheard two other employees saying the same phrases and comments I did and they didn't get disciplined.



I do know there is all sorts of Harrasment.
Thanks for the list Channahon!


Thanks for the comments Red we all work hard at UPS...and under paid in my book. UPS should feel lucky that they aren't paying LUMPERS to unload their trailers like the rest of the freight companies in this nation. Other wise they would be broke! (LUMPERS make $150-$500 per trailer unload!)


Tie, why do you think I should have to settle for anything? Do you settle for things this important in your life?

Thats my comments and I am sticking to them!

Buffy!!!:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:
 

samiam

I wish, there for I am?
Of course I know it was wrong to use that language, what I am saying is everyone in the hub is allowed to use this kind of language without discipline of any kind and now all of a sudden after 4 years of employment I am being singled out for it.




I believe then term you can use is 'selective inforcement'. If everybody does it , then way are you the one getting the fall for it.

And for the record, why are you talking like that anyway? I meet up with a driver on route once that was swearing like a drunken sailor in front of a custom to the point where I was embarrassed. Don't get me wrong....I don't bleed brown, but show a little professionalism for petes sake.
 

tieguy

Banned
Make the call?


Tie, why do you think I should have to settle for anything? Do you settle for things this important in your life?

Thats my comments and I am sticking to them!

Buffy!!!:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

I don't think you will have a choice. You go in front of the Arbitrator with that expression you won't get back pay and you will be lucky to get your job back.

Feel free to risk it all. But I think you're looking at a loser if you do.

Its time to eat some crow and I don't think you realize it and I don't know think you're recieving good counsel on this subject if you honestly believe you can go into a panel hearing and walk out unscathed much less with back pay.

Now I'm the a-hole management person telling you what is the safe play while everyone else is egging you to jump.

If you also feel your a target for management then I think you ought to sit down and think about whether its worth what you are going through now.
 

tieguy

Banned
Of course I know it was wrong to use that language, what I am saying is everyone in the hub is allowed to use this kind of language without discipline of any kind and now all of a sudden after 4 years of employment I am being singled out for it.




I believe then term you can use is 'selective inforcement'. If everybody does it , then way are you the one getting the fall for it.

And for the record, why are you talking like that anyway? I meet up with a driver on route once that was swearing like a drunken sailor in front of a custom to the point where I was embarrassed. Don't get me wrong....I don't bleed brown, but show a little professionalism for petes sake.

generally not all that selective. Its generally not harrassment until someone complains.
 
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trickpony1

Well-Known Member
Someone help me understand this.
Buffy apparently refered to herself as a "f-ing N word". If Buffy is of that ethnicity and there were no other persons of that ethnicity in the area that could have misunderstood the comment then what's the problem?
How is this harassment? The comment wasn't directed at anyone else.
If people filed harassment over EVERYTHING they happened to overhear the system would be seriously overloaded.
I agree with the other poster who said that Buffy hasn't been warned or counseled regarding this behavior.

"I'm just a dumb truckdriver". OK.....someone file harassment on me since I'm sure I have offended someone. :lol::lol:
 
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