Ground to absorb Express

[Star B]

This forum is also loaded with posts of express drivers that say they couldn't care less if they have lates. They say lates are management's problem not theirs.

Here's the thing though -- by the time an Express driver gets to the point of "friend it, if its late, its late" its after dealing with Express management not being able to get freight to us on time, telling us that "oh, DRA says you should be able to do 99 P1s and drive 300 miles", or not hiring enough people because the shareholders gotta make bank.

From what the old fogies at the station make it sound like... if mgmt cared about the couriers like they did when they were Privately-held Express.... the employees would care a ton more about lates... and management wouldn't be so hell-bent on costs... so the problem wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is.

No question the compensation package for contractors would be loaded with penalties for late deliveries.

that's where the contractor/employee/employer relationship comes into play. One day we might get an hour added for P1 due to a late plane, other days.... service disruption, just get it off the truck. I'm sure you as a contractor would sign "Fines for late P1 will be issued at the sole discretion of FXG"... wait a second, there we go, profitability by fining the snot out of contractors.

 

[MAKAVELI]

How so? Ground doesn't have RLA. If anything, this would strengthen the distinction. FXE (the airline) would air-line-haul freight for FXG. There would be less trucks on the ground on the Express side... as that was rolled into FXG with the contractors.

We happen to be an airline that has a huge fleet of trucks on the ground. We would become an airline with the minimum amount of trucks needed to directly support the air freight operation.

How so? Because keeping the RLA status is predicated on keeping OPCOS separate and express explicitly handling Express Freight.

 

[Star B]

How so? Because keeping the RLA status is predicated on keeping OPCOS separate and express explicitly handling Express Freight.

Nobodys saying that FedEx Ground opco would become FedEx Express opco. FedEx express would become FedEx Express D/B/A FedEx Express Airplane Line Haul Co. FedEx ground would named FedEx Ground Operations d/b/a FedEx Express. Right now we are under the RLA because of the Express Carrier exemption for the massive van fleet we have. If we were to loose the massive van fleet, it's no longer a grey area what we would be.

UPS is a trucking company that happens to own an airplane or twenty and is subject to the NLRB.
FXE is an airline that happens to own a massive fleet of vans that is subject to the RLA.

New FXE would be an airline that owns ground support equipment to maintain its airline operation.

The Express carrier amendment was to block the labor board from reclassifying Express into a trucking company because of that massive van fleet we own.

 

[MAKAVELI]

you are missing the point the whole reason that FedEx Express drivers are under the rla is because they handle exclusively air freight and no ground Freight. This is why ground is covered by the nlra. And just as UPS is because they started as a trucking company. If Express were to hand over Air Freight to ground there would be lawsuits to throw out the RLA status for its drivers.

 

[Star B]

you are missing the point the whole reason that FedEx Express drivers are under the rla is because they handle exclusively air freight and no ground Freight.

um.... we get a good amount of freight that shows up at our station that never, ever touched a plane.

This change would never happen as a "Oh, FXG, Have a little XS freight we dont want anymore".. this will come as a "Guess what Express drivers... all your freight is now being given to Ground. Here's your layoff notice. If you want a job, go over to the Ground terminal".

 

[MAKAVELI]

um.... we get a good amount of freight that shows up at our station that never, ever touched a plane.

This change would never happen as a "Oh, FXG, Have a little XS freight we dont want anymore".. this will come as a "Guess what Express drivers... all your freight is now being given to Ground. Here's your layoff notice. If you want a job, go over to the Ground terminal".

Doesn't have to touch a plane to be regulated by the FAA and RLA regulations. Just has to be labeled Express Freight.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Doesn't have to touch a plane to be regulated by the FAA and RLA regulations. Just has to be labeled Express Freight.

And all 2ay and express saver that go from coast to coast touch a plane even Freight going within the same state may go on a plane.

 

[dmac1]

Anyone can get the package delivered. There's no arguing that. Meeting the time-definite service requirements is another story. To do so consistently requires a level of control over the last mile operation that Express can't legally maintain in a contractor scenario.

I keep brining it back to the level of control that the company needs over the last mile ops because that is vital to the success of the operation. This forum is loaded with posts from contractors saying that they don't have to do [this] if they don't want to, they don't have to do [that] if they don't want to, that they aren't obligated to do more than the bare minimums stated in their agreements, etc. That wouldn't work well at all with the high revenue, low margin Express product.

Not all express is time of day sensitive. Ground could deliver al of that. Ground drivers are expected to deliver every package on their vehicle daily. ISPs are supposed to ensure that they do get delivered. or else they risk their investment. Ground ISPs have a much bigger incentive to get packages out on time, especially if fedex pays just a little extra to deliver express packages.

Express can still do their pickups, maybe do all pickup, and all specific time deliveries. If fedex can even cut 20% of their delivery drivers, they'll save millions annually, maybe into the hundreds of millions.

And all the savings aren't just driver pay- there's support staff, vehicles, vehicle maintenance, terminal/station leasing, HR would be smaller, retirement contributions, benefits, and so on. There is just no way fedex should be paying twice as much for the driver, plus all these additional employment costs if there is an alternative.

 

[dezguy]

Not all express is time of day sensitive. Ground could deliver al of that. Ground drivers are expected to deliver every package on their vehicle daily. ISPs are supposed to ensure that they do get delivered. or else they risk their investment. Ground ISPs have a much bigger incentive to get packages out on time, especially if fedex pays just a little extra to deliver express packages.

Express can still do their pickups, maybe do all pickup, and all specific time deliveries. If fedex can even cut 20% of their delivery drivers, they'll save millions annually, maybe into the hundreds of millions.

And all the savings aren't just driver pay- there's support staff, vehicles, vehicle maintenance, terminal/station leasing, HR would be smaller, retirement contributions, benefits, and so on. There is just no way fedex should be paying twice as much for the driver, plus all these additional employment costs if there is an alternative.

Wrong. All of our freight has a commitment. P2, while not a morning commit, still has a commitment time whether it be 1600, 1700, 1800, etc. If P2 shows up after that commit time, the customer can request a refund.

 

[It will be fine]

Wrong. All of our freight has a commitment. P2, while not a morning commit, still has a commitment time whether it be 1600, 1700, 1800, etc. If P2 shows up after that commit time, the customer can request a refund.

If Ground is attempted after 18:00 it is late and subject to a refund.

 

[MAKAVELI]

If Ground is attempted after 18:00 it is late and subject to a refund.

Resi - SO, 2Day, and Express Saver are 2000. Business- SO is either 1500 or 1630. 2Day and Express Saver are 1630.

 

[59 Dano]

If they decide to have contractors and their ground drivers pick up and deliver Air Freight they will lose their RLA status.

It would strengthen the RLA status of Express if it contracted out the on-road operations. The contracted Express and Ground drivers wouldn't be covered, but the rest of Express would be, just as it is now.

A big reason Express wouldn't go for a contractor model is that those drivers could possibly organize against whoever it is that actually employs them. The last thing Express wants is to risk its packages with drivers it can't control, especially when they are covered by a labor contract that FedEx had no hand in negotiating.

 

[59 Dano]

What I do know is this. When margins are under attack companies hit back. The focus of this discussion is what X can and might be compelled to do if margin improvements at Express begin to level off or decline and what new demands may be put on the backs of Ground contractors . Rest assured image and reputation won't pay the bills if economy of operation is no where to be seen.

That's what I'd do if margins got tight, I'd take the work away from the people who were specifically trained to do it and give it to those who weren't. Sounds like a BRILLIANT idea.

 

[59 Dano]

This forum is also loaded with posts of express drivers that say they couldn't care less if they have lates. They say lates are management's problem not theirs. If contractors got time sensitive deliveries I'm sure the punishments for lates would be well beyond the cost of the shipments.

To be fair, 99% of those posts belong to one guy.

 

[59 Dano]

Nobodys saying that FedEx Ground opco would become FedEx Express opco. FedEx express would become FedEx Express D/B/A FedEx Express Airplane Line Haul Co. FedEx ground would named FedEx Ground Operations d/b/a FedEx Express. Right now we are under the RLA because of the Express Carrier exemption for the massive van fleet we have. If we were to loose the massive van fleet, it's no longer a grey area what we would be.

Bingo.

 

[MAKAVELI]

It would strengthen the RLA status of Express if it contracted out the on-road operations. The contracted Express and Ground drivers wouldn't be covered, but the rest of Express would be, just as it is now.

A big reason Express wouldn't go for a contractor model is that those drivers could possibly organize against whoever it is that actually employs them. The last thing Express wants is to risk its packages with drivers it can't control, especially when they are covered by a labor contract that FedEx had no hand in negotiating.

FedEx can't have it both ways. Express handles Express freight and Ground handles ground freight. That's why there is an exemption. By having ground deliver "Express" freight they would be skirting exemption to maximize profit and lawsuits would be flying left and right.
This is straight from fedex.
A Discussion on the RLA and UPS Campaign
UPS has been under the NLRA since that law was passed in 1935 because they have always been a ground company. When UPS began its airline segment in the 1980s, the employees in that segment, mostly pilots and mechanics, were classified under the RLA – like all other airlines, including FedEx Express. However, UPS does not handle their air shipments in a separate and distinct network that ties directly into their air operation, as FedEx Express does. That’s why their pickup and delivery employees have remained covered by the NLRA.

Throughout the 1990s, UPS tried to have their drivers reclassified from the NLRA to the RLA. Every time, the independent regulators said no. For example, in 1991, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals found that FedEx is exactly the kind of essential, integrated air service the RLA was designed to cover. In 1996, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit found that FedEx trucking services principally serve our air-delivery services whereas UPS’ trucking services do not. They confirmed that UPS’ non-airline operations were correctly classified under the NLRA.

• Unlike our competition, we operate an integrated air/ground network and handle air shipments separately in that network. RLA jurisdiction gives us the best opportunity to deliver reliable, uninterrupted service to customers.

 

[bacha29]

That's what I'd do if margins got tight, I'd take the work away from the people who were specifically trained to do it and give it to those who weren't. Sounds like a BRILLIANT idea.

How many Rhoades and Fulbright's does it take to pick it up here , haul it over there and put it down someplace agreeable?

 

[McFeely]

To be fair, 99% of those posts belong to one guy.

To be fair, I'm not that one guy but I also give zero s about late packages if mgmt gives me more work than is doable. I'm not speeding nor falsifying to make a package get there on time.

 

[bacha29]

Perhaps the take away from this discussions should be simply this. Fedex Express employment is no where near as secure as some would believe and compensation will continue to lag behind their counterparts at UPS with the disparity in all likelihood becoming even wider as the years progress.For an ISP contractor there will be no foreseeable end to the money hairballs he will have to hoark up and dump in the collection plate and encumbered with still higher demands for even greater value in exchange for returns that will be nothing to brag about and those returns will remain under intense pressure until he finally capitulates to the investor class who will dictate the terms of sale and who are undoubtedly the people X wants holding the contract.

 

[Gone fishin]

Perhaps the take away from this discussions should be simply this. Fedex Express employment is no where near as secure as some would believe and compensation will continue to lag behind their counterparts at UPS with the disparity in all likelihood becoming even wider as the years progress.For an ISP contractor there will be no foreseeable end to the money hairballs he will have to hoark up and dump in the collection plate and encumbered with still higher demands for even greater value in exchange for returns that will be nothing to brag about and those returns will remain under intense pressure until he finally capitulates to the investor class who will dictate the terms of sale and who are undoubtedly the people X wants holding the contract.

I think what I got out of this conversation is nothing will change. I'm very sure of that. I hope the best for both parties involved. Now go drink some green beer