UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
143 stops, 461 pkgs, 28 pickup stops, 100 pkgs, 50 miles, full lunch/break, punch out by 1820.
I know you want UPS pay but do you want UPS work?
Guaranteed Fair Treatment (GFT)
- Thread starter Washu234
- Start date
143 stops, 461 pkgs, 28 pickup stops, 100 pkgs, 50 miles, full lunch/break, punch out by 1820.
I know you want UPS pay but do you want UPS work?
Well other than what Upstate said, I have never said that FedEx employees should be happy with their pay. I've also never said they shouldn't be either. As I have said before, show me an employee at any company that doesn't want to make more money. I'm topped out and I'd love to make $30/hour but as I've also said before, I'm personally not willing to risk what I have now for a few extra $$/hour. It's quite possible that while my pay may go up with a union, I'd also have to work harder (see Upstate's post), I might lose other benefits that are important to me or they might cost me more. Then again, I might get everything I want. The point is that I'm pretty happy with my job and I don't think the risk/reward is worth it. For anyone that thinks that a union at FedEx is simply going to increase pay, they need to go out and do some research.
Unlike you, I don't spin things. Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean I'm spinning it. As I've repeatedly said but you repeatedly ignore, I don't really care if someone is pro- or anti-union or pro- or anti-FedEx, I just hope that they are smart enough to do some research and not listen just to you or just to me. I think that if they do that, most people will come to the conclusion that a union isn't for them. Just my opinion.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
At my station, we aren't far behind those numbers (except the pkg count), and the route would be 80-100 miles, not 50. I can handle the extra pace...PAY ME!!
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
What's the risk? You've got seniority and they really can't push us much harder than they already are. What Upstate (and other UPSer's) don't figure-in is the greater distances between stops and the FedEx predominance of on-calls vs. regulars (UPS calls them House Stops). I've got 3-4 UPS drivers within my 1 area on any given day. Often, they go from one dock directly across the street to the next, or drive 75 feet to the business next door. Lots of in and out for them compared to drive time for me.
Think about it from the perspective of someone who just started two years ago and has 18 to go until he gets to a point where he's $10 per hour lower in pay than a UPS driver. Plus, FedEx has just saved itself 17 years of having to pay a top wage that isn't even close to the competition. That's ridiculous!! We've got an ex-UPS supervisor (package car) working for us now and he's the biggest whiner I've seen in awhile. He isn't very good at figuring out how to work-in his on-calls with deliveries because they aren't across the street from each other any more. I don't know why he left UPS, but he's fairly worthless as a courier. Maybe the FedEx job isn't quite as easy as some people think.
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There's no UPS gene that only some possess. No, I wouldn't want to do those kind of numbers now, but I do wish I had taken an UPS mgr.'s offer in '91. UPS didn't pay that much more back then and didn.'t allow transfers. I could 't imagine spending the rest of my life in Emporia, KS. If we had such condensed, heavy routes I'm certain most couriers would manage it or quit, as long as the pay is comparable. No one would work like that for our pay, but you can bet FedEx would attempt to pay us much less for comparable work.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
You hit the nail on the head. Even if we put out more stops per day than UPS on longer routes, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Specifically, less of it, because (as you said) FedEx would always want to pay less for comparable work. This situation already exists in the RTD vs Feeder job, which is identical between the 2 companies. UPS pays way more.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
It may not be long before you FedEx couriers have UPS work for FedEx pay...
more reason to go union now, not later, IMO.
mungrin
Banned
Please Explain
But how long was that UPS air driver a pkg handler making $8.50-$12/hour (with no benefits) before he was able to get a driving position? Meanwhile the FDX driver making $16-$20 has been making $4-$11.50/hour more for the 5-10 years the other guy was slinging boxes/pre-loading. Not to mention, most if not all the UPS air drivers I know are part-time as are the handlers, so they aren't getting more than 25-30 hours/week max. If that's all you want fine, but most would rather get FT hours. So, over the course of the first 5-10 years, the FDX employee is pretty far ahead......takes a while to make up for that. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar 5-10 years from now. But, to each their own......
UnconTROLLed
perfection
You really don't know much about how UPS operates judging by this post (probably similar to me not knowing much FedEx)
Many PT air drivers are hired off the street. So two years from hire date, 23 or 24/hr. Benefits after 4 months, in this area, for PART-TIME.
20 hours a week at 23-24/hr is no different than 12/hr 40 hours a week.
so that brings up, what's FedEx Express starting rate for drivers? And how much are they making typically after 2 years?
For me: 4.75 years PT inside, went FT in 2006 and now 25/hr for 40+ hours a week, working fairly easy INSIDE. Don't even have to sniff a package car.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
It was my understanding that generally FedEx Express and etc drivers do not handle quite the workload of UPS drivers, on average. Pretty soon, given the way FedEx seems to have cut back everything else (pension, benefits, hours), I'd expect to see the co. start really packing those trucks full and basically UPS'ing you guys.
One of my good friends went through GFT today after a manager gave him a letter for attendance (after legitimately being sick on multiple occasions - with Doctors notes).
My friend refused to sign the letter saying that it was unpreventable and him was legitimately out each day. The manager called in another manager to sign the letter. My friend subsequently filed for a GFT. The accusing manager was pissed.
My station manager heard the case with HR and made the accusing manager tell my friend why he was not getting a letter. The accusing manager was pissed and my friend was off the hook.
They system worked! ****ty manager looked like an idiot and will hopefully be reprimanded.
I gained a little faith in FedEx today. The obvious bull**** doesn't slip.
Any other GFT success stories?
Are you guys sure you want a union? The teamsters couldn't of pulled this off, and they charge you a monthly fee just for trying.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
It always amazes me how others (not you) can come on here and say how wonderful FedEx is given everything they've taken away and their utter failure to keep pace with UPS in terms of wages. We're already being UPs'ed in most locations, so there isn't any logical rationale for putting up with it.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
This is how I got sucked into FedEx and out of UPS. Back in the 80's, it made sense to go straight to Federal Express because the pay differential between courier and package car driver was small, and the pace wasn't as hectic at Federal Express. I can remember managers being disciplined for doing UPS-style time studies because Fred was afraid it would piss-off the employees. One ex-UPS manager was almost fired for bringing out the clipboard and the 3 stopwatches.
Federal Express had an unwritten contract with employees that placed PSP first, made sure compensation and benefits were equitable, and strove to be different and better than UPS. When it all became FedEx, the wholesale change was underway, and those of us who had made the decision to make Federal Express a career were in for a rude awakening. Despite assurances that the takeaways were temporary (in most cases), Fred essentially lied his ass off to a bunch of incredibly dedicated employees and broke every "promise" to pieces.
Since you apparently hired-on in 2000, you have no idea what a quality employer FedEx used to be. Now, it's truly the difference between night and day, and newer employees are really clueless as to just how ruthless and penny-pinching FredEx has become. At some point, Smith sold his soul to Satan, and he's made the place a living Hell ever since. Maybe that was part of the deal.
The smart move today would be paying your dues at UPS as a handler, and then having a real job that pays real money at some point in the future. FedEx sucks, but it didn't used to.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
The problem I am seeing is that FedExers actually believe they are keeping pace w/ the UPS Teamsters and their wages/benefits/retirement.
We see it right in this thread, actually. Fedex2000 actually tried to spin FedEx vs UPS! Good luck with that, 98% of the time the FedExer gets absolutely PORKED in comparison, sad to say. And it's likely those rumours and false beliefs that keep the masses rebellion at bay.
No, most know they're getting hosed. I pointed out to my mgr awhile back that they were going to have trouble keeping young people who will quickly realize there's not much of a future. He reminded me about our conversation the other day, said I was right, our station is having constant turnover of part-timers.
For FedEx2000, I was rehired at $10.85hr, am at $17.09hr at almost 12 years, where am I at an advantage over UPS newhires?
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Any part-timer at UPS hired in 2001 is making 18/hr. A P/T hired before '83 is making around 30/hr, for comparison sake.
You are FT? If you don't mind me asking, how were/are your annual % increases, or however FedEx handles them? Especially the past two years.
No one can argue FT progression of 3 years for FT driver, 2 years air driver is any worse than FedEx's lifetime wage progression. *In most cases*, impossible to spin that angle.
If so many Air drivers are hired off the street, why are there so many posts on here about how people had to be a handler for X amount of years before becoming a driver? Wouldn't it make more sense to hire on as an Air driver, be topped in 2 years, and move over to a FT driver when the opportunity arises? Maybe by "many" you meant "some"? If your goal was to become a driver this route would make much more sense, if possible. Also, from what I have seen posted here, MOST PT benefits at UPS don't kick in until after a year....obviously your contract is different. Do PT handlers get any benefits at UPS? What are the differences vs FT benefits?
20hrs x $24 = $480
40hrs x $15.61 = $624.40 (Starting pay for couriers where I work is $15.61, starting pay for handlers is $12.23)
About $150/week difference......obviously working more hours, but that's after 2 year top out at UPS vs. starting pay at FedEx.
Raises are based on performance reviews, but are usually between 3%-6.5% depending on the review, with the exception of the past 2 years....no raises in 2009, max was 2.2% this year.
Obviously anyone would rather be making $23-24/hr after 2 years vs $16-17, but it all depends on how long you would have to wait to become an Air or FT driver there. If you get hired as an Air driver off the street or move in to that position fairly quickly, then great......depends on your situation and if you can afford to wait it out, as in MrFedEx's case.
Obviously your situation is different. I was comparing new hire at UPS vs. new hire at FedEx. You are not at an advantage, and are a perfect example of mid-rangers that are stuck in no man's land.......which I have stated on here before that I don't agree with and wish that we would do something about it. My example was someone who started as a handler at UPS, $8.50/hr for maybe 5 years vs a courier off the street at FedEx at $15.61 hour.....over that first 5-10 years the FedEx courier is way ahead, but the UPS employee would make it up over time....just depends if you have that time to wait.
Just curious, in your earlier post you stated that air drivers top out at $23-24 after 2 years. In this post you state that any PT at UPS that started in 2001 is making around $18.....is that for a handler or what type of job?
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