I've caught a few and blocked a few, but having a law against assault (which we do) is not the same as banning the consumption of alcohol.
guns
- Thread starter moreluck
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klein
Für Meno :)
Your right, he said more die of drunk driving (not from "alcohol related collisions") !!
cachsux
Wah
If that drunken fist had not been blocked and was repeated enough times do you think you could still make the statement of "never hearing of a person drinking some one else to death"?
Absolutely. Drinking someone else to death is not the same as beating someone else to death. For starters, the latter doesn't require alcohol and it's already against the law.
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
Seriously? Are you intentionally being obtuse or did you really not understand the point Cache was trying to make?
cachsux
Wah
Funny, the people beaten to death by the drunks didn`t know the difference.
klein
Für Meno :)
In all do respect, in over 90% of the time, the drunk one will get the beating, not the sober one.
Unless ofcourse the drunk one hits on a weak female or child. Which will land him in jail in any case.
And whats worse ? A drunk with a fist or a drunk with a gun ?
No I'm not being obtuse. I'm saying that getting drunk does not = assault. If someone hits you that's assault, whether they were drunk or not. They didn't "drink you to death".
And that's the point. Assault is assault, whether drunk or not. It doesn't become something different based on whether or not the person is drinking.
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
The words may not have been exactly right but the intent was clear to me.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Those who wish to ban or severely restrict gun rights like to use statistics to make the argument that the overall cost to society (murders, accidental deaths, crimes etc.) of allowing gun ownership outweighs the benefits.
I only brought up the subject of alcohol to point out that, using those same statistics, one could make an equally valid argument that alcohol should be banned or subjected to the same silly regulations and restrictions that the Kleins of the world would impose upon gun owners.
I find it both amusing and a bit hypocritical that Klein and those like him would love nothing more than to regulate how many or what kind of guns that I own, or how I should store them, or how many bullets I should be allowed to load in each magazine....but when I turn their argument around by proposing that the same sort of restrictions be placed upon the alcohol that they choose to drink, they would get all upset at the thought of their "rights" being taken away.
I only brought up the subject of alcohol to point out that, using those same statistics, one could make an equally valid argument that alcohol should be banned or subjected to the same silly regulations and restrictions that the Kleins of the world would impose upon gun owners.
I find it both amusing and a bit hypocritical that Klein and those like him would love nothing more than to regulate how many or what kind of guns that I own, or how I should store them, or how many bullets I should be allowed to load in each magazine....but when I turn their argument around by proposing that the same sort of restrictions be placed upon the alcohol that they choose to drink, they would get all upset at the thought of their "rights" being taken away.
I agree that arguments based on statistics, analogies, etc are not good arguments and that's why I prefer to avoid them because they can be turned around on you. To me the strongest argument for private gun ownership has always been one that is based on individual rights, and it's the only one that really needs to be made.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I misspoke, and you are probably corrrect that the total number of gun fatalities exceeds the number of drunk driving deaths per year.
For a fair comparison of gun vs. alcohol deaths, however, you would first have to subtract suicides as well as justifible (self defense) shootings from the total number of gun deaths. You would also have to subtract the gun deaths that were a result of someone being drunk. And you would also have to factor in the number of murders that were prevented due to the intended victim being armed with a gun.
And on the alcohol side of the equation, if you add in the fatalities that result from other types of drunken accidents (boating, swimming, dirt biking, overall stupidity) as well as the murders, suicides, and crimes that are a direct result of alcohol intoxication, plus all of the chronic diseases (chirrosis, ulcers, alcoholic dementia)that result from alcoholism....it is indisputable that far more people die from alcohol than from guns.
So we are right back to the original point I was trying to make. If preventing crimes and saving lives is an adequate justification for banning guns, then it would be equally justifiable to ban alcohol.
Whats it going to be, Klien? You cant have it both ways. Are you willing to give up your right to keep and bear alcohol in order to save lives, or do you only want to ban the choices that other people make?
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I am armed, so at least I have a fighting chance against a drunk with a gun. The drunk in a car can run me over or hit me head on and there probably wont be a damn thing I can do about it. Hey, if we are gonna start banning things in order to save lives, why stop with guns or even alcohol? Lets ban cars!!
klein
Für Meno :)
We already have strict drinking laws, more stricter then your gun laws.
You can't drink in public, that includes public lakes, campgrounds, beaches and anywhere else that is general public.
You can't buy alcohol at grocery stores or gas stations but only at liquor stores, that can't sell nothing else beyond that, besides "mix" (coke, pepsi, etc). But no chips, snacks, cigs, or any food , nor any other items, period.
You must be 18 to enter one of those stores and no alcohol sales before 10 am, and no later then 2am.
Bar owners are held 100% responsible if the customer is over served and gets hurt. (Over serving is actually forbidden, so are buy 1 get 1 free drinks or other lower prices (lowest minimum price of drinks are dictated by the provincial government).
In family friendly licensed restaurants you must order food to be served an alcoholic beverage.
Ofcourse no drinking and driving, no open liquor in the car, and no alcohol within reach of the driver period (regardless if sealed).
Prior to the 1988 Calgary Winter Olympics, alcohol sales were forbidden on Sundays (stores and bars).
In comparison, you can go to Bavaria (capital Munich), in Germany, and beer is considered a food item there.
If you ever visit Octoberfest in Munich, you'll see little children drinking beer with their parents.
There is no legal age there for beer consumption.
Mac Donalds sells beer in Germany. You can drink it freely anywhere you wish, even at the wheel , as long as you stay under 0.8. (1 beer is fine).
Beer is served nearly everywhere in Germany (at bus stops, in trains, at the hair salon, at the butcher or bakery, and even have 24 hr outside beer despensing machines ) !
Legal beer drinking age in the rest of Germany is 14.
Besides, Beer, Wine and other alcohol can be homemade.
Guns and bullets, that might be a tougher thing to self make.
That all being said : Tabacco is the number 1 killer.
A glas of wine or a bottle of beer per day, has been proven to be healthy, good for your heart and other organs and may extend your lifespan.
You can't drink in public, that includes public lakes, campgrounds, beaches and anywhere else that is general public.
You can't buy alcohol at grocery stores or gas stations but only at liquor stores, that can't sell nothing else beyond that, besides "mix" (coke, pepsi, etc). But no chips, snacks, cigs, or any food , nor any other items, period.
You must be 18 to enter one of those stores and no alcohol sales before 10 am, and no later then 2am.
Bar owners are held 100% responsible if the customer is over served and gets hurt. (Over serving is actually forbidden, so are buy 1 get 1 free drinks or other lower prices (lowest minimum price of drinks are dictated by the provincial government).
In family friendly licensed restaurants you must order food to be served an alcoholic beverage.
Ofcourse no drinking and driving, no open liquor in the car, and no alcohol within reach of the driver period (regardless if sealed).
Prior to the 1988 Calgary Winter Olympics, alcohol sales were forbidden on Sundays (stores and bars).
In comparison, you can go to Bavaria (capital Munich), in Germany, and beer is considered a food item there.
If you ever visit Octoberfest in Munich, you'll see little children drinking beer with their parents.
There is no legal age there for beer consumption.
Mac Donalds sells beer in Germany. You can drink it freely anywhere you wish, even at the wheel , as long as you stay under 0.8. (1 beer is fine).
Beer is served nearly everywhere in Germany (at bus stops, in trains, at the hair salon, at the butcher or bakery, and even have 24 hr outside beer despensing machines ) !
Legal beer drinking age in the rest of Germany is 14.
Besides, Beer, Wine and other alcohol can be homemade.
Guns and bullets, that might be a tougher thing to self make.
That all being said : Tabacco is the number 1 killer.
A glas of wine or a bottle of beer per day, has been proven to be healthy, good for your heart and other organs and may extend your lifespan.
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